+ 54 TOO MUCH ORAL!? HOW CAN THAT BE BAD!!??
Well it can be bros and lady bros.
Now I'm not talking about the kind of oral your creepy high school gym teacher taught you about. No I'm talking about orally administered AAS. Get your mind out of the gutter. Oral steroids are a wonderful tool to be used in your enhancement arsenal. Now notice I say "tool". That's how I like to look at these drugs, they're tools. Each used for a specific purpose. And it doesn't end with drugs either. No matter what facet of fitness you may be in, whether its cycling, bodybuilding, fighting, or extreme badminton. Each and every thing you put into, or use in conjunction with your body can best be looked at as a tool. Which can lead to a very goal oriented mindset.
A dumbbell is a tool.
Testosterone is a tool.
Winstrol is a tool.
Chicken breast is a tool.
Rice is a tool.
Champion of the mind is a tool
Now unfortunately in the case of oral AAS. Overuse of these tools can lead to a slurry of ill effects. Lately I've had a few too many folks hit me up with the idea of running one oral or another for a very long period of time, or even stacking 2 or 3 at a time. for example this skinny fat fella at my gym wanted to run winny at 50mg for 10 weeks with after he finishes the bottle of prohormones he got from a supplement store. HA! Better have a new liver on ice for when you're through pal. And its frightening to think that there are guys out there who WILL do these long oral runs.
The purpose of this article in is to explain why oral runs must be kept short, how to protect yourself while on them, and what will happen the more you push the limits. And I'll keep the science talk to a minimum in an effort to hold your attention.
A lot of folks really like to push the envelope and go beyond the suggested limitations, seemingly in an effort to milk as many gains out of an oral as they can. When in doing so they in most cases end up going backwards.
You see, oral steroids are 17α-alkylated compounds, which gives them the ability to survive passing through the liver without being filtered out which makes them much more effective. But this also puts a HUGE strain on the liver. And if you didn't know, the liver is pretty damn important when it comes to being alive and staying that way.
So what makes you go backwards in gains on orals? Well, using an oral steroid for too long will lead to your body literally becoming a toxic environment. And when your body is toxic, it WILL NOT grow. No matter how much gear you run or food you eat. Gains will come to a screeching halt.
I've heard some people say that if your eyes or skin turn yellow then its time to stop. FALSE. SO GROSSLY FALSE. If your eyes are turning yellow that means that you have exceeded liver strain and moved right on to DAMAGE. If your liver is damaged that means your kidneys are being damaged as well. And that's even worse. The liver is a tough bastard. It can take a fair beating then bounce back over time and be ok. The kidneys are not so tough. Once they're compromised, that's it. You're frigged.
Now people also give timelines on how long to use particular orals which are considered safe, ex. 4 weeks max for this, 6 weeks max for that. These timelines are for the most part fairly accurate but keep in mind, you can't be certain of your overall liver health, or genetic predisposition to having a weak liver. Yes you can have a liver that's kind of a pussy. Its science.
The only real way to know if you're ok on an oral compound is to get pre, during, and post cycle bloodwork done to check your liver enzyme levels. This way you know where started, and can track the effects of the drug throughout and after cessation.
Now, here's a few issues that can arise as a result of running orals too long.
• Tiredness/lethargy
• Loss of appetite.
• Headaches.
• High blood pressure.
• Loss of strength.
• Weight loss.
• Liver damage/failure.
• Kidney damage/failure.
Now how do we avoid all this?
Well first of all. Bloodwork. Always. Always know where you're at so you can treat accordingly.
Second, just don't push it. You'll feel better physically and make better gains that you have a better chance of holding on to.
Supps for your liver health
•Liv 52
•Tudca
•Milk thistle
•NAC "N-acetylcysteine"
•Essentiale forte-n
All of those will help to protect the liver and promote regeneration of liver tissue. But don't think these supps will give you a magic force field around your liver. They won't. These supps are preventative tactics, not cures.
Do not consume anything that will cause further stress on the liver or kidneys.
Narcotics, otc nsaids like tylenol, advil, ibuprofen, or especially alcohol or accutane. Accutane is a drug used for the treatment of severe acne and not a lot of you realize how toxic that stuff really is.
High blood pressure is also a huge concern with running any AAS but particularly concerning when using orals. High blood pressure can lead to heart attack, stroke, and kidney failure just to name a few. 99% of the time it presents no symptoms so you'll feel perfectly fine. Which is why you MUST get weekly check ups on your blood pressure. My last oral adventure was only 3 weeks long and went extremely well, until I checked my bp on week 3. Normal range for bp is 120/80........ mine was 179/88. After a day of drowning myself in water, fish oil, and Hawthorne Berry extract I got it down to 129/79. I was already taking in all of those supps and drinking 2 gallons a day. But it wasn't enough!!
Supps for your heart/bp
•Hawthorne Berry extract
•Fish oil, lots of it. 10 grams or more per day.
•WATER
•Sometimes you may need to see your doctor and get a prescription to control your bp.
Oral AAS often cause painful pumps in your shins, forearms, and lower back. This can be remedied with taurine. About 3 grams in the morning or preworkout works great. As well as magnesium. 300mg works well for me.
Now I'll lay out a list of some popular orals and the ancillaries that are commonly required to accompany them.
•Anadrol: Extremely estrogenic, arimidex or aromasin. Can present prolactin sides, combat with prami/caber.
•Dianabol: Highly estrogenic from heavy aromatization. Combat with adex/aromasin.
•Anavar: very dry, often times presents little to no side effects.
•Winny tabs: also very dry, can cause pain in joints. Combat with glucosamine and fish oil.
•Superdrol: Gives lean dry gains but is nevertheless very estrogenic. Will also present prolactin sides. Combat with aromasin, prami/caber.
•Halo: very dry. Can aromatize contrary to popular belief. Adex is sufficient.
•M1T: Heavily estrogenic. Combat with aromasin.
•Tbol: little to no aromatization
The better you control the aromatization of these compounds, the less estrogen you'll have floating around. If you keep your estrogen level within normal range, you can avoid gyno, high bp, kidney stress, bloat, erectile dysfunction, and mood swings.
So in closing, keep your oral steroid runs short and sweet, always keep up on your bloodwork, and be patient, this is a marathon not a race. Longevity is the most important thing here. It's hard to perform at your best when you're on dialysis or dead.
Thanks for reading!
Now here's some pictures.
Flex Wheeler in 1996, one of my all time favorite physiques.
Flex Wheeler after renal failure and a kidney transplant.
Paul Dillet on the right Making Dorian look small.
Paul Dillet now after renal failure and immune disease.
This kid ran some prohormones and actually followed the right timelines on them, but his liver wasn't in shape to deal with it.
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Alot of oral questions so...bump
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Hey old friend ;)
@birdbear27, AMAZING post. This should be MANDATORY READING for all noobs. Amazing post.
Fantastic post. Thanks
You're welcome man, thanks for the props.
those pictures tho...
cant be a beast forever, gotta enjoy that shit while it lasts. but they probably abused the shit out of orals, high doses/never came off
I disagree. While achieving and maintaining current Mr. Olympia size and bf % is basically how to be a drug addict and abuse your body 101, every single person without any kind of specific genetic dysfunction or chronic illness should be able to achieve and maintain a very respectable physique for their entire lives. I often hear people who aren't such fans of bodybuilding or fitness in general state something similar, "you'll just lose it all when you quit lifting/eating/juicing..."
Well, if the physique you achieved and maintained or steadily added to was done through reasonable a reasonable drug regimen (NOT a gram of test and tren a week), a balanced training regimen with an equal focus on mobility, cardio, technique, and strength alongside aesthetics, with a top notch diet focussed on organic and sustainably sourced produce and meat, being fit, aesthetic, jacked & tan, whatever you want to call it... it's something you can carry with you until your final days.
Don't give into defeatist attitudes, and don't hold drug abusing mass monsters in such high regard if your focus is health and a sustainable lifestyle.
They certainly did. Black guys are also more susceptible to kidney issues. So they were playin with fire big time bro.
I always wondered why the estimated Glomerular Filtration Rate eGFR in the kidney panel has two ranges one for blacks and another for everyone else. Now I know.
XD
Nice post brother, educational and pictures! Great work +2
Thank you brother
Great read, I'm glad you took the time to share this with us
Of course brother.
LMFAO I just seen this post bro, excellent work; very proud of you my man +1
Hahaha quit smokin crack and you'll be more aware of these things. Damn homeless.
LOL but it's the only thing that beats my deca dick...
STANDING OVATION
Awsome read my Man! +1
Thanks bro
AnonSuperdrol + getting insanely sick and being a complete dumbass with gear in general landed me in the hospital last year. I couldn't drink water without throwing up not more than a sip anyways, didn't have a choice got too dehydrated needed the fluids. This is my post I made back in that old thread after going to the hospital. My heart was beating so hard & fast I didn't know what to think and it was all due to kidney toxicity, which is not what I expected. My liver enzymes were fine… I would have been fine without the superdrol. GREAT post.
Official diagnosis was "Dehydration/rhadbomyolysis;Bronchitis"
"Rhabdomyolysis is a condition where injured muscles release harmful substances into the bloodstream. These substances include potassium, phosphate, creatinine, kinase, and myoglobin. Large amounts of these substances may cause damage to your heart, liver, kidneys."
My phosphate was elevated and creatinine was extremely elevated. Apparently this caused all the heart problems as a result, no problems at all with the heart just beating too fast. ECG/enzymatic function was normal. My hemoglobin and RBC are elevated, pretty funny actually they checked everything EXCEPT my hormones. hah. Everyone there commented on my size seems pretty funny that they wouldn't even think about steroids. Good for me though.
When admitted BP was 168/97 ( my highest ever before this was like 131/85! ) I left at 140/70, resting heart rate was bouncing around 110-120 and was down to 92 when I left. They ran two bags of fluid through me.
No permanent damage at all it didn't get that far, I just have to take a week off of lifting & get bloodwork in a week to make sure the toxins have cleared.
The acute bronchitis just made breathing more difficult.
I'm all good. It looks like superdrol was the culprit here to me... still dropping tren anyways because I'm sick of the sides but can't blame it for the toxicity ( although I'm sure it hasn't helped )
I remember that post you made about it. Terrifying shit right there bro you're lucky. Really puts things in perspective about how dangerous these drugs can be.
very well put together man. very good stuff for people to hear. your saving some poor dudes liver somewhere out there right now on anadrol dbol and winny lol
Lol thanks brotha
Excellent and I'll say again Excellent post man! Thank you
Thanks man
BIGBOY1234What about tbol or var at 60mg for 7 weeks?
Average anavar dose is around 50mg for 6-12 weeks. But the point of this post isn't to tell you how to run orals, its how to protect yourself and to realize that you can't alwyas follow the cookie cutter guidelines. You have to know what's going on in your body. Not guess.
BIGBOY1234Thanks
BIGBOY1234Thats saying that my liver is fine and all
Thank you bro for this. I did not know that Flex Wheeler and Paul Dillet had both taken so seriously ill. Both my kidneys failed when I was hospitalized with double pneumonia and complications and I was not expected to recover kidney function but I eventually did. So this really hits home for me.
You write:
Yes indeed. I wish I could give you more than a +1. I hope this encourages folks to do labs.
It's a shame they ended up the way they did, and the worst part is there's SO many others who fell out of bodybuilding due to oral toxicity. It's a slow and silent killer and can so easily end your career and make life a daily struggle. I'm very happy you were able to recover brother that's terrifying. The human body is an amazing thing, but it can only be pushed so far. Everyone needs to know their limits and monitor their health no matter how great they feel.
As much of a mess as the healthcare system in the United States is, it has its good points as well. I realize that our members outside the US sometimes don't have access to the equivalent of our Private MD Labs or LabsMD and that is disheartening to say the least. For those of us that live in the US, there is NO EXCUSE not to get regular bloodwork done. I know so many guys at my gym that prefer to bury their heads in the sand rather than get a blood test that is going to tell them to stop the roids or at least take a long time off. I took some drol a few weeks ago and my serum creatinine level shot right up over the top of the range. So I stopped immediately. Not worth stressing the kidneys, too many other compounds to use that are safer.
BIGBOY1234Dont forget to get your lipid panels checked as well. My cholesterol was really high off just a tbol only cycle at 60mg for 7 weeks and my doc wantedme to go on statins.
Good post
Thanks man. Got some more on the burner stay tuned.
Great post plus one but where is champion of the mind at to answer this tool question lol
Hahahaha he must be sleeping in a dumpster somewhere, I collected all the cans in town while he was getting his monthly std screening at the free clinic and recycled them for hotel money so now he has no source of income LMAO!!
LMAO, you call this a post? Put some effort into it bro.. lets help the community not mind rape them LOL.. I would plus 1, however people might get the wrong impression, with all the dumb shit going on in the promo... great work brother. + Respect
Lol. It only takes a few to ruin it for everybody I suppose. Drama. Now sign out and go pull the copper piping out of abandoned buildings so you have some cash to buy some steaks.
LOL, I do what I have to bro, it's a cold and lonesome world XD "Hey yo homeless guy, you wanna sauce for your steak?"
Lmfao that's funny shit
Great post bro info taken in +1
Stay safe bro!
AnonWell done, BB! Very thorough and appropriate for this site, like any other. We all do love Orals...but everything has it's time and place....and the lessons learned can be infinitely worse than the gains potentially made.
+1 for such a well thought out write-up and excellent presentation.
Thanks brotha!
anadrol, m1t and superdrol DO NOT aromatise. when the liver "heals" it is scaring over like scar tissue, permanently damaged, enzymes and values heal over time if your lucky.
Plenty of debate over the aromatization factor there. But regardless they DO cause estrogen to rise substantially. The necrotic tissues and damaged cells of the liver can regenerate over time but yes there is the tipping point where its too far gone and the damage is done.
i beg to differ, they do not aromatise what so ever. theres a difference between estrogen metabolise and aromatise enzyme, you should know, you just finished m1t.
Thank you.