birdbear27's picture
birdbear27
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+ 53 TOO MUCH ORAL!? HOW CAN THAT BE BAD!!??

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Well it can be bros and lady bros.

Now I'm not talking about the kind of oral your creepy high school gym teacher taught you about. No I'm talking about orally administered AAS. Get your mind out of the gutter. Oral steroids are a wonderful tool to be used in your enhancement arsenal. Now notice I say "tool". That's how I like to look at these drugs, they're tools. Each used for a specific purpose. And it doesn't end with drugs either. No matter what facet of fitness you may be in, whether its cycling, bodybuilding, fighting, or extreme badminton. Each and every thing you put into, or use in conjunction with your body can best be looked at as a tool. Which can lead to a very goal oriented mindset.

A dumbbell is a tool.

Testosterone is a tool.

Winstrol is a tool.

Chicken breast is a tool.

Rice is a tool.
Champion of the mind is a tool

Now unfortunately in the case of oral AAS. Overuse of these tools can lead to a slurry of ill effects. Lately I've had a few too many folks hit me up with the idea of running one oral or another for a very long period of time, or even stacking 2 or 3 at a time. for example this skinny fat fella at my gym wanted to run winny at 50mg for 10 weeks with after he finishes the bottle of prohormones he got from a supplement store. HA! Better have a new liver on ice for when you're through pal. And its frightening to think that there are guys out there who WILL do these long oral runs.

The purpose of this article in is to explain why oral runs must be kept short, how to protect yourself while on them, and what will happen the more you push the limits. And I'll keep the science talk to a minimum in an effort to hold your attention.

A lot of folks really like to push the envelope and go beyond the suggested limitations, seemingly in an effort to milk as many gains out of an oral as they can. When in doing so they in most cases end up going backwards.

You see, oral steroids are 17α-alkylated compounds, which gives them the ability to survive passing through the liver without being filtered out which makes them much more effective. But this also puts a HUGE strain on the liver. And if you didn't know, the liver is pretty damn important when it comes to being alive and staying that way.

So what makes you go backwards in gains on orals? Well, using an oral steroid for too long will lead to your body literally becoming a toxic environment. And when your body is toxic, it WILL NOT grow. No matter how much gear you run or food you eat. Gains will come to a screeching halt.

I've heard some people say that if your eyes or skin turn yellow then its time to stop. FALSE. SO GROSSLY FALSE. If your eyes are turning yellow that means that you have exceeded liver strain and moved right on to DAMAGE. If your liver is damaged that means your kidneys are being damaged as well. And that's even worse. The liver is a tough bastard. It can take a fair beating then bounce back over time and be ok. The kidneys are not so tough. Once they're compromised, that's it. You're frigged.

Now people also give timelines on how long to use particular orals which are considered safe, ex. 4 weeks max for this, 6 weeks max for that. These timelines are for the most part fairly accurate but keep in mind, you can't be certain of your overall liver health, or genetic predisposition to having a weak liver. Yes you can have a liver that's kind of a pussy. Its science.

The only real way to know if you're ok on an oral compound is to get pre, during, and post cycle bloodwork done to check your liver enzyme levels. This way you know where started, and can track the effects of the drug throughout and after cessation.

Now, here's a few issues that can arise as a result of running orals too long.

• Tiredness/lethargy
• Loss of appetite.
• Headaches.
• High blood pressure.
• Loss of strength.
• Weight loss.
• Liver damage/failure.
• Kidney damage/failure.

Now how do we avoid all this?

Well first of all. Bloodwork. Always. Always know where you're at so you can treat accordingly.
Second, just don't push it. You'll feel better physically and make better gains that you have a better chance of holding on to.

Supps for your liver health

•Liv 52
•Tudca
•Milk thistle
•NAC "N-acetylcysteine"
•Essentiale forte-n

All of those will help to protect the liver and promote regeneration of liver tissue. But don't think these supps will give you a magic force field around your liver. They won't. These supps are preventative tactics, not cures.

Do not consume anything that will cause further stress on the liver or kidneys.

Narcotics, otc nsaids like tylenol, advil, ibuprofen, or especially alcohol or accutane. Accutane is a drug used for the treatment of severe acne and not a lot of you realize how toxic that stuff really is.

High blood pressure is also a huge concern with running any AAS but particularly concerning when using orals. High blood pressure can lead to heart attack, stroke, and kidney failure just to name a few. 99% of the time it presents no symptoms so you'll feel perfectly fine. Which is why you MUST get weekly check ups on your blood pressure. My last oral adventure was only 3 weeks long and went extremely well, until I checked my bp on week 3. Normal range for bp is 120/80........ mine was 179/88. After a day of drowning myself in water, fish oil, and Hawthorne Berry extract I got it down to 129/79. I was already taking in all of those supps and drinking 2 gallons a day. But it wasn't enough!!

Supps for your heart/bp

•Hawthorne Berry extract
•Fish oil, lots of it. 10 grams or more per day.
•WATER
•Sometimes you may need to see your doctor and get a prescription to control your bp.

Oral AAS often cause painful pumps in your shins, forearms, and lower back. This can be remedied with taurine. About 3 grams in the morning or preworkout works great. As well as magnesium. 300mg works well for me.

Now I'll lay out a list of some popular orals and the ancillaries that are commonly required to accompany them.

•Anadrol: Extremely estrogenic, arimidex or aromasin. Can present prolactin sides, combat with prami/caber.

•Dianabol: Highly estrogenic from heavy aromatization. Combat with adex/aromasin.

•Anavar: very dry, often times presents little to no side effects.

•Winny tabs: also very dry, can cause pain in joints. Combat with glucosamine and fish oil.

•Superdrol: Gives lean dry gains but is nevertheless very estrogenic. Will also present prolactin sides. Combat with aromasin, prami/caber.

•Halo: very dry. Can aromatize contrary to popular belief. Adex is sufficient.

•M1T: Heavily estrogenic. Combat with aromasin.

•Tbol: little to no aromatization

The better you control the aromatization of these compounds, the less estrogen you'll have floating around. If you keep your estrogen level within normal range, you can avoid gyno, high bp, kidney stress, bloat, erectile dysfunction, and mood swings.

So in closing, keep your oral steroid runs short and sweet, always keep up on your bloodwork, and be patient, this is a marathon not a race. Longevity is the most important thing here. It's hard to perform at your best when you're on dialysis or dead.

Thanks for reading!

Now here's some pictures.

Flex Wheeler in 1996, one of my all time favorite physiques.

Flex Wheeler after renal failure and a kidney transplant.

Paul Dillet on the right Making Dorian look small.

Paul Dillet now after renal failure and immune disease.

This kid ran some prohormones and actually followed the right timelines on them, but his liver wasn't in shape to deal with it.

NWApatches's picture

I had hoped this was about dick suckin. Like how to get your girl to give you MORE head

In a promo × 2
Krock83's picture

Thank you!!! Very informative post.

Saint gannett's picture

Fish Oil, Milk Thistle and a Multi-Vitamin?????? TUDCA, which brands rate best? Is krill really King and why?

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FAM7306's picture

Anavar is metabolized in the kidneys so it’s a little safer if the literature I’ve read is correct. Which makes it less liver toxic. But then maybe it can cause kidney issues no study that says it does.

BJ's picture

I like the "Ameen Alai pill protocol" of alternating orals & taking days off each week from taking them!

Locd_trenst's picture

Good write up! I personally try to steer clear of all morals. Proof in the pics

Zalewski's picture

Tudca is bae imo

4ce's picture

Great write-up.
As far as I know NAC made it into BB cycles as liver protection due to its performance with alleviating alcohol induced liver damage.
However the same research showed that timing of NAC intake is important and if taken wrong can even worsen the damage.
Therefore imho it is better to be used during OCT in an attempt to recover liver function and remove heavy metals from the body.

m3m3rino's picture

Can confirm first time running superdrol, was extremely lethargic all the time.

ziabungle's picture

Great info that should be read by anyone thinking of running orals. Newbies I see get confused thinking pills are easier and safer than injections.

Jesst3r's picture

Amazing write up, thanks

halfaloaf's picture

I really needed to hear this,in a big way ty.Darren

danyno's picture

Eyes opener! Thanks man

gapi2911's picture

what a post....great one for sure...thanks

platzlegs100's picture

Great info, well written. Cheers

Jason Bonham's picture

Good info, bro

Rydawg's picture

Damn!!! Going to get some fish oil today lol

RoccoX's picture

Damn! so scary pictures. It really makes you think. Thank you

kingzchrist's picture

Bird, that last pic scared me silly.

Whats the concencus on time between oral cycles?
Time on + time off?

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4ce's picture

I have studied Oral-Turinabol and available files of the DDR / eastern germany doping program to some extent.
Their doctors have established yearly dose dependent side-effects for OT.
I don't have the exact numbers, but I remember that my moderate OT-only cycle put me slightly above the max-yearly-dose.

So "time-off = time-on + time_pct" is just a rule of thumb, and in the case of Oral-Turinabol it simply would not work.
My guess is that other orals could/should be treated the same way.

aasredone's picture

time off is equal to or greater than time on. That's the rule of thumb.

shaun1's picture

Id say stay away from the orals all together. They go straight to your liver to get processed and they tax the hell of it. If orals are your thing why not just use injectable orals they go to the muscle where they filter through and by the time they make it to the liver to get processed out of the body they've been broke down more so its less stress and less damage on the liver. By all means their all bad in any shape or form but at least injectable orals are much much easier on the liver. Ive learned my lesson with orals yes I may have had previous damage before I started messing with orals but they played a part in speeding up the process of sending me to the Er a while back where my liver enzyme's where sky high and I had pancreatites and an inflamed colen like I said i cat blame them all together but enough to want to stay the hell away from them and only go with injectable orals from now on if I so chose to go that route.

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KIMLIN's picture

Thank you for this post

Adhdboy's picture

Great post mate. Unfortunately, people don't always listen. I have a guy that works for me who is heading for some serious issues if he is not careful. I shall cut and paste this and give it to him.

Nice fella.

SteakNlobsterlikeamobster's picture

Your thoughts on oral Tren?

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watsonjack's picture

too much of oral is not good...whatever it is..LOL

ashop's picture

The fellow with the jaundice eyes looked scary. You know you got BIG problems when you see that happen.

Deviss's picture

thank you for this great post

7gothic's picture

About the only oral I have any use for is Anavar, which has a relatively low degree of hepatoxicity, compared to a compound like Anadrol or Dianabol, which incurs a large amount of water retention....USELESS compounds.

fetus's picture

Hell of a post. Should be required reading.

llubtip's picture

+1

Theonslaught's picture

I was told seo was the cause of flex's issues.
I've heard of renal failure from such abuse due to touch vitamins in the seo. Lol

alpha2000's picture

Good read. I remember flex back in the day, didn't know about the renal failure though. He was lucky to get a transplant some people are not that fortunate.

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

THE BEST thread on eroids for showing............. what can and does go wrong.... WAY WRONG.

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Please can we make this a Sticky ........ its an fantastic piece of work and much needed info with our "Oral crisis" that's rearing its ugly head again.

Pale's picture

I will resubmit it for a sticky

VIKING EVOLUTION's picture

Thanks bro......... i think this is what the pill crunchers should see instead of thinking the oral route is the easy way.

zeusmarada's picture

Yet again, kiddos get seduced by imaginary thinking. A picture is indeed worth 1,000 words. There is no easy way. It simply takes year in, year out smart decisions. We're all one bad decision away from being injured, homeless, or living with liver damage that could be one of the most painfully shitty ways to die.

birdbear27's picture

Y'all are makin me blush.

The Impastable's picture

It's not an "oral crisis." Rather, it's just idiots who shouldn't be anywhere near these drugs begging for confirmation on what they're doing because getting their fucking hands dirty in the gym is no longer an option for these sensitive little Children.

I do agree that this should be a sticky, because it is an excellently written piece though!