The test/tren ratio debate
Hey guys I am thinking of running some tren in my cycle during the spring. I know it's a harsh compound and will have all the compounds needed to battle nasty sides. I would love to hear some dosage advice on test to tren ratio as well as all good and bad stories from your first tren runs. Also a debate on test e/test p vs tren e/tren a would be helpful from some of you more experienced guys.
I'm 33 years old
I have ran 3 prior cycles using test e and some orals.
I have been working out about 3 years with the last 1.5 years very dedicated about 5-6 days a week.
I am 185 pounds and maybe around 13 to 14 percent body fat.
My goal is to add lean muscle and have a good 6 pack by summer next year so this will be more of a cutting cycle vs bulking any. Thanks for everyone's input in advance.
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i started off tren low , test high. Eventually moved tren up to same dose as my test. Had the same sides doing it both ways. The tren was causing HUGE spike in my blood pressure out of no where.
One minute i would be fine then next my pulse and blood pressure would shoot up to the point that i would start sweating and felt like my heart was beating out of my chest. Was going to drop it from my cycle but tried some blood pressure meds first and it did the trick. Everything leveled out after a day or two and i didnt have any more issues after that and i have made more progress this time around then any other, Although i know my diet played a huge part in that. I am dropping the BP meds as soon as i end my cycle.
I run high dose tren with low dose test and don't have any rage, depression, mood swings, acne, insomnia, excess sweating etc.
I have never ran high test high tren and don't plan to because this works for me.
Everyone reacts differently
Liquidzim 39 and tried the higher tren lower test and got ALL the shitty tren sides
insomnia
hate everyone and everything
wanted to run over fuzzy animals just trying to cross the street
switched to higher test LOW tren and am now getting ALL the good tren sides
crazy sex drive
aggression ONLY in the gym
great pumps
with the other doseages and lack of sleep i couldn't get into the gym and screwed me up at work
now sleeping like a baby
current cycle and its badass
btw dual 19nors=dead dick is a myth
test E 1mL eod
test P 1mL eod
deca .5mL eod
npp .5mL eod
tren a .3mL ED
winny (low dosed) 40mgs a day weeks 8-14
caber 1mg e3d
copy this for 14 weeks =)
1.8mL per day ED
Brother please never advise anyone to copy a stack which is clearly stupid.... it may be your choice but dont push it down other peoples throats,,, a triple 19nor stack is a big NO NO around here, i could quote some serious stacks that would blow peoples minds but!... i dont print them all over the boards here for safety reasons and this not being a balls to the wall bodybuilding forum... i have to reel myself in sometimes and i hope and would be grateful if you could too.
LiquidzI see what you are saying and I certainly apologize
I looked at it like a dual 19nor considering its just ester related on the deca/npp
If you do the calculations my deca is moderate as is the NPP
people might ask why use deca and NPP at the same time.
my reply would be this
many people frontload using short esters until the longer esters kick in
I was using the longer esters 1st and had the shorts in my stash
I was questioning the integrity of my deca and its dosing so I redid my calcs and if you do as well you will see there is nothing extreme since its mild on both ends
once I added in the NPP and prop my strength and libido and body recomp, vascularity were off the charts
If NPP and Deca are the same, and added up together they are reasonable its still just a 2 19nor stack and
reasonable at that as well.
You are very smart and I would never suggest someone do something crazy so I apologise if it seems that way. Was never my intention =)
The way I looked at this was in comparison to sust
short and long esters providing coverage of the same compound
just did my deca/npp calcs ~600mgs weekly and that's if were talking about 100% purity which we never will be regarding Chinese raws and UGLs
even if they both were 75% pure were looking at 450mgs per week of a short/long ester of the same compound which falls well within range of a reasonable deca/npp dose
add in 280 mgs of tren A, again without mass specs and purity in question we might be pushing a gram of test and ~650 mgs of 19 nors?
I will not advise this again now that you've asked me not to. Completely understand
AnonFor starters bro and I keep reading posts with people misunderstanding so I'm gonna clear it up here. NPP is deca. The steroid "Deca" is a nickname given to the compound called Nandralone Decanate. Decanate is simply a long acting ester like 12-14 days right up there with Undeclynate (EQ). Nandralone Decanate was just nicknamed Deca get it??? NPP is the short fast acting form of Deca. NPP (Nandralone PhenylPropionate) phenylprropionate is the ester that Nandralone is attached to. You will also find the Test PhenylProp in Sustanon mixes. Does this make sense? NPP is fast acting Deca kicks in about the same time test prop or tren ace would. Most peoe would use NPP to kickstart a test e and deca cycle or you can use if at the end of a cycle too it is run the first or last 4 weeks of a cycle. Does what I said make sense to you bro? If you have any more questions add me and PM me I will be happy to explain it further or explain my response better if need be
Liquidzive understood since day 1 and ty for trying to help. If you read the post above you would already know that I have a clear and concise understanding of nandrolone and its various esters.........
i wouldnt consider sustanon to be a quad stack since its all various forms of the same compound, would you?
i was moreso adding the npp to my test/deca since the deca was questionable in my eyes. glad i did tbh, it was from a diff source and the results were dramatic and significant.
i guess what got me was that it was considered a crazy stack and i personally wouldnt consider it a triple 19nor considering that deca/npp are the same compound.
the question will be asked again since i was already well aware that npp and deca are the same, do you consider sustanon to be a quad stack?
or do you consider it to be one compound with varying esters?
would you consider a tri-tren to be a triple 19nor stack or one compound with varying esters?
very interested in what people think of those 2 questions
can i ask why you are running deca and tren together ? cheers mate
He has triple 19s in that lunatic stack, he is just wasting gear and playing russian roulette with his prostrate.
TRT test, 600 tren E and an AI. Low sides and a crazy libido (and i mean really crazy high).
Necrotikhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5tHVSnE5AU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
This might be informative for some.
Tren,
Yep, its potent shit.
Im doing Tren A 80mg ED/Test P 30mg ED (week 4)
Physical
Ran outa HCG and my right nut got F'ing sore
Wacky vivid dreams at all times when asleep
Massive amounts of energy on low carbs. The only carbs I'm eatin is 3/4 cup of cooked rice per day. With Gym 1.5h then 12h labour 6days per week im still not tired and only need 5h sleep.
Pain threshold = cuts, hits, sunburn, it dont hurt no more.
Strength increase all round
Higher muscle density
Cardio - breathless at the 10min mark, a bit like the asthma I had as a kid.
Prolactin sides - its either a myth or i'm one of the lucky ones.
Psychological
Did you look at me?
I think my livers fuked
I think my kidneys are fuked
I hate my Mom
Stay the fuk away from me.
Im gunna have a heart attack soon
I hate my job, I hate the next door neighbour, I hate that tree
Im gunna smash that guy grunting in the gym
Get the picture?
Cheers Threshy
God I know this thread is 4 months old but I just about sprayed shit onto my couch through my shorts laughing so hard at that last bit. Hahaha seriously funny and so true.
GearofWar"Did you look at me?
I think my livers fuked
I think my kidneys are fuked
I hate my Mom
Stay the fuk away from me.
Im gunna have a heart attack soon
I hate my job, I hate the next door neighbour, I hate that tree
Im gunna smash that guy grunting in the gym"
Lol, I almost pissed myself this morning when I read this right here^^Paranoia is a bastard on Tren for you huh? I've never been that paranoid on Tren but I have become the man with the world's shortest fuse when it comes to weir random fucking noises. For example when I hear someone pouringa glass of Coke or Pepsi, or anything carbonated into a glass and it makes that foaming fizzing noise..Well that makes me want to KILL! And any repeptetive, loud noises like if there's a fucking idiot teenager stopped at the traffic light next to me pumping his reggeaton dumbshit music at full volume, it's all I can do to not drag him out of his car window and beat him to death with his own shoe and then strangle his numb-cunt girlfriend with her iphone charging cable for being guilty by association. Crazy random stuff sets me off on Tren.
I thought I was ready for tren on my fifth cycle..... The first 5-6 wks I was getting stronger with minimal sides and there I was thinking all these guys are full of shit. BAM! Week 8 tren made me it's bitch, insomnia hit like a train, I became moody having emotional roller coasters, sweating constantly, didn't want to eat anything and got to the point when having sex I would get up but couldn't bust, talking bout frustrating.
GearofWarDid you use any Dopamine Agonists? Getting up but not being able to "bust" is a telltale sign that you have Prolactin issues. It may have taken the 8 weeks to reach a level that created issues for you. That's why you HAVE TO keep something in your stash to beat Prolactin's punk ass when he brings his weak ass shit to your hood, homies. If I keep Caber working throughout my Tren cycle the sides are typically pretty tolerable. Except for all the fucking sweating, I can never stop that on Tren.
No I didn't, like a dumbass I assumed at only 400 mg a week it wouldn't bother me and the prolactin issues wouldn't effect me. And as if I wasn't enough of a dumbass instead of going with acetate so it could get out of my system in a few days I ran enanthate so dealt with that shit for three weeks before I started getting normal. DUMBASS!!!
GearofWarWell, now you know and you've learned a valuable lesson. And you are man enough to own up to being a fool and helped by passing along info and caution to another less experienced member. +1 from me.
Talking about doing Tren seems to be fashionable right now - like your not really part of the club unless you have Tren under your belt. Yeah, and when it backfires and you're having panic attacks and you can't eat and you can't sleep and if you don't have a relationship with God, you will when Tren turns south on you - you'll be on your knees praying for Him to take that shit out of your system. You gotta be way down the road with AAS at a point where all the basic compounds and cycles don't do anything for ya before even considering Tren. My .02
aylmejorYeah...
its not that serious.
Yeah . .
it can put u in the hospital
GearofWarDeaths per year according to the CDC:
Tobacco = ~435,000
Alcohol = ~75,000
Steroid abuse =~3
I'm not denying that Tren can't cause some unpleasant sides, nor that AAS in general are serious drugs with potential consequences. I do not subscribe to the fear mongering angle either however.
aylmejorWho's been hospitalized from trenbolone use? Your post was outrageous and just radiates fear mongering.
Me. End of discussion. (And, bro, I'm a vet - I've been using steroids for over 15 years and I am a competitive BB).
aylmejorI see we both been down voted. I'm not arguing bro if that happened to you then that's that. I have not once heard of anyone else claiming such things. Honestly I doubt its from the tren? What happened what else where you on? Dosages. It would be nice to share with the community your experience, right? The claim of " me end of discussion" doesn't hold much ground for anything other than stubbornness。 so plz if you could share the specifics of this hospitalization sir.
GearofWarWhat exactly were you hospitalized from? Not looking to pick a fight but please tell us your story so that others may avoid repeating your misfortunes. Was it heart damage, liver, kidneys? And how were you treated and are you all good now?
All I feel comfortable in saying is that there were / are congenital diseases in my family that I was unaware of that were kicked into high gear through what I think / thought is / was responsible AAS use. This can happen to anyone, unfortunately. I am simply in agreement with the mod team here at eroids that Trenbolone is a very harsh compound that is not a magic bullet and in dispensing advice, if there are other compounds that might yield great results, and the user does not have a deep cycle history, a non-Tren cycle should always be evaluated. Please take that up with the mod team, not me. I have 5 cardiac stents that were placed by a great team at Johns Hopkins hospital that are still fully open. I am in excellent health today and continue to enjoy my AAS program and continue to compete. When I started contributing here at eroids, I was quite the Tren advocate - I felt the HAMMER just touch the top of my head oh so gently - LMAO LOL I think the other reality here is that for folks that are currently using Tren - u make a negative comment about it and they get offended like the sky is falling. I'm old. My ego isn't that fragile. If someone wrote a post that was tearing apart all the compounds that are in my current cycle - I don't think my nose would get out of joint over it.
I love my chemicals, for sure, but it's not my identity . . . gheez!
aylmejorThis still does not explain much. But I don't think this should be continued. Thx
Well put
Well you pretty much scared me out of it. I'll just put it to the back of the stash for a few more years.
Bro, +1 for being open minded about it. There are so many great things to try before you finally pull into the Tren train station. Tren is the last town on the line. The Tren station is kinda like "White Room" by Cream. Take a listen when you get a chance. It's a classic.
Haha I will man. Well I trust and respect all you guys on here so that's why I posted to get the answers I need. I realize it's early in the game for me so my best bet seems to just add a lil eq to the test in the spring and get more experience under my belt. Thank you for giving good and smart advice. +1 to you as well.
Fantastic. One of the better things I've read in a while. Being forced to your knees will sure humble you in a hurry!
Bro, IMO your cycle history dictates that you have a ways to go before introducing tren, there are a ton of compounds, dosages, diets and routines to tweak on before tren should even be in the conversation
my .02
GearofWarYeah like Eq. Great 4th run compound and lines up well with his intended goals.
I have some eq and the more I read the more u think test and eq it is. Thanks for your advice brother.
Agreed
Yea I have considered that too. I've done tons of research and plan on being very safe with it, but you are right that there are other compounds I have yet to try.
just curious why you are going with tren?
Well I have a rather small frame and I have no desire to ever be 225. I want to have more of a fitness physic vs being really huge. I have read many of the properties of tren and the benefits that it has given to people. It seems with the muscle gains it gives the lean properties like a stronger jaw line I have problems with from heredity. I know it's a beast of a steroid and that's why I want to be smart and safe with it and gather as much knowledge as possible.
GearofWarI know what you're getting at here but Tren won't give you the jawline that genetics or the Almighty didn't. Its a potent AAS and WILL transform you but there are many things it cannot do. Read these: http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/trenbolone-how....
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/better-basics-for-the-n...
well brotha im going to put it to you like this. i love and hate every tren run. the results are good but the feeling on it can downright suck shit. honestly, i probably wouldnt touch it if it werent for me trying to compete. i really think you can reach your goal and have a more enjoyable run with something like a prop/mast/var cycle. if you chose to go tren start small...like 30mg prop 50mg ace and go from there
Explains exactly how I feel about tren too. Like the results, but hate the ride.
Thank you for the honest advice. I may wait a little longer and try a different compound set like you suggested and try to get some good results.
aylmejorWell if your goal is to lean out I would deff keep the test low. Something like 20mg test p/ 50mg tren a. If using test e 250-125 @ week. You're already injected tren a everyday so mine as well hit the test p. I would use tren e at least not yet. See how a treats you. How long u gonna run this. Maybe throw some mast in .