posted Sun, 02/17/2013 - 11:50
3315
Test prop vs Test E for shredding
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So I hear all the time prop is much better for cutting body fat but has terrible pip? Is this true? I want to shred on my cycle coming up this summer but I don't want to be crippled from prop pip. I will be on a cutting diet no matter what compound I run however.
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water retention can be controlled by diet! but also can depend on how well the body can metabolism the ester attached to the test molecule,
the body uses water to breakdown the ester attached to the test molecule which will cause some degree of water retention but every body's metabolism is different.
Also causes electrolyte imbalances which I think could be related to the problem aswell.
So in theory test suspension will cause zero bloat.
I can cut on Deca and drol if i'm eating right
As an aside, U might try test p on a taper if you haven't used already. You may find the reputation for PIP is overblown or you get none. It's nice to have the option for a shorter cycle.
AnonThanks for the reply's, do you guys know how long test E will stay in your system for after you come off?
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkYOU CAN CUT ON ANY STEROID. Does not matter. Test is test, prop is known to have a little less water retention, but if pip is such a difficult issue for you just go with test e and keep up on your arimidex.
X2^ I used drol during my cut for the ebc. Diet has to be on point.
exactly!! I can stay lean on it if I keep up with my ancillaries. The drol helps pull water inside the muscles. Once you get rid of that layer of water beneath the skin of estrogenic water from test then your muscles look huge full and hard.
Amen to that! The drol made a huge difference in my final result. But my diet was super on point. And had a brilliant dry out protocol. But ill use drol in every prep I do in the future.
X2 +1
Diet is key
Diet is key - you will read this time and time again on the forums and the reason why its mentioned so often is because it is true. AAS increases your recovery rate, but if you actually want to add some lean muscle into the mix you need to eat right. You also need to find what works best for your body - copying an IFBB pro's diet is great, but if your body doesn't respond to certain macro-nutrient ratios and wholefoods (which are high in lactose, example) then you are not optimizing your diet. Finding which foods work for you is takes time through increasing the understanding you have with your body. This will help you identify which foods you should eat at what time. It will also increase your understanding of your body's natural limit, while also understanding how your body reacts to carbs, protein and fat sources in order to reach your daily macro-nutrient intake limits.
Regardless of how much AAS compounds you pump yourself with, without proper nutrition the simple maintenance of the muscle mass you've worked hard over in the gym and resting will deplete. Therefore a subjective understanding of pre training nutrition in addition to post training nutrition should be fully understood to ensure your body is kept in an anabolic environment.
Damn dude, I feel dumber than a bag o hammers after reading your posts... good stuff
Choosing an ester for your next AAS cycle is an important factor to consider. Ester lengths have the ability to define/redefine our muscular appearance, while also providing either a slow release of the main compound to which the ester is attached to or releasing the compound instantaneously. The general rule is, the longer the ester, the longer/slower the release of the main compound - products such as TNE ( Testosterone No-Ester) and Testosterone Suspension have no ester attached to them, and therefore will be transported around your body instantly.
An ester is simply a chain of atoms made up from both carbon and hydrogen - the ester is then attached to the main compound (in this case using AAS steroids - whether it be testosterone or trenbolone for example) at the 17-carbon position. Longer esters have more atoms in its chain at the 17-carbon position, thus increasing the time for the human body to break down that particular molecular chain before it breaks down the main compound.
I hear you ask, what is the purpose of an ester? - Well, esters increase the half-life of the compound it is attached to, and by doing so, one can pin (inject) less often, while crucially maintaining stable blood levels. Products like testosterone propionate require more frequent injections (preferably ED/EOD) in comparison to Testosterone Enanthate (E3D/E4D).
In order to illustrate my aforementioned point, i have presented below a list of the number of carbon atoms situated in each ester:
Formate: 1
Acetate: 2
Propionate: 3
Butyrate: 4
Valerate: 5
Hexanoate: 6
Heptanoate: 7
Enanthate: 7
Octanoate: 8
Cypionate: 8
Nonanoate: 9
Decanoate: 11
Additionally, the data below represents the ester half-life. (The pattern to notice is the more carbon atoms there are, the lengthier the half-life)
Formate: 1.5 days
Acetate: 2 days
Propionate: 3 days
Phenylpropionate: 4.5 days
Butyrate: 6 days
Valerate: 7.5 days
Hexanoate: 9 days
Caproate: 9 days
Isocaproate: 9 days
Heptanoate: 10.5 days
Enanthate: 10.5 days
Octanoate: 12 days
Cypionate: 12 days
Nonanoate: 13.5 days
Decanoate: 15 days
Undecanoate: 16.5 days
At this point in time, you may have came to the conclusion that there is no need for short-esters, since there simply is no need to be pinning unnecessarily. However, there are many more factors to consider before you begin purchasing your long-estered variants, such as the rate of aromatisation/estrogen conversion and blood level volatility for example.
The evidence for this argument results from understanding what esters are - the main variable in comparing esters is their affinity towards water retention, and at what rates the sub-cutaneous water retention is experienced. Experienced AAS users will strongly agree that the water retention experienced through running a long-estered variant such as testosterone enanthate in comparison to testosterone propionate (whereby the main compound in each product is testosterone) is significantly higher. Therefore, these experienced AAS users will tend to use the longer estered variants in their off-season and the short ester variants towards pre-contest preparations. Additionally, these sides such as increased water retention from long-estered testosterone help increase the chances of obtaining other sides such as gyno.
Another point to consider, which i have read more frequently recently is that some of our members claim that shorter estered variants are more potent than their longer estered counterparts. Well, not necessarily since they have the same compound to which the ester is attached to - however, the main difference is that in a 10ml vial of testosterone propionate, there will be a higher percentage of testosterone in the vial, in comparison to testosterone enanthate whereby there is an increased amount of ester weight.
When an ester is attached to a compound the ester makes up a percentage of the total weight of the compound - for example, testosterone cypionate contains 69.9% testosterone per mg, whereas the cypionate ester makes up 30.1% of the total weight. However, testosterone propionate contains 83.7 mg of testosterone, per mg and its ester weight is 16.3% of the compound. Additionally, since shorter esters release the parent compound into the human bloodstream at a faster rate, gains are recognised at an increased speed.
Below is a list of the more commonly used esters, which have been grouped together according to the percentage of testosterone they contain per mg - additionally, i have added breakdown of how much money is spent on the product and how much is spent on the ester (based up on RRP in USD ($) of a 10ml vial using common dosages - Rested Retail Price (term used loosely LMAO).
Percentage of Testosterone per mg - RRP ($) - Value of test - Value of ester
No Ester: 100mg---------------------$45--------$45-------------$0
Propionate: 83.72mg-----------------$35--------$29.3-----------$5.7
Enanthate: 71.99mg------------------$45--------$25.2-----------$19.8
Cypionate: 69.90mg------------------$45--------$24.47----------$20.53
great post sir! thanks.
Prop is good in a cutting diet because it tends to not make you hold as much water. But if you haves good lab the pip is nill to none.