Questions on previous cycle & plans for next
So I did my first test E cycle and I’m looking for some advice on fine tuning for my second based on the experience I had, which went like this.
Felt amazing right from the first couple of shots so I figured the test was working.
I started with anastrozole .25 every other day felt a bit shitty on the first few doses so I figured that was working too.
First question
My nuts shrunk at around 3 weeks but I stuck to the plan of hcg at week 4 twice a week at 250 ui per shot, but still they never seemed to return to their original size.
Should I begin with hcg earlier or as soon as my testicles start to atrophy next time?
Next stage of the cycle
Everything went well till about week 8 when gyno started. Mostly on the right nipple sore and itchy.
According to what I read I should start with nolva at 40mg a day for a few days until it subsides and then 20 every day or every other day as needed for the rest of the cycle.
Nolva worked, it killed off the pain and no lumps appeared under the nipple.
My second question,
Should I take more anastrozole next time? .25 ed or .50 eod for example to stop the gyno in the first place?
The third Question
I seemed to “plateau” at 8 weeks also. The gains and strength increase really slowed, I guess this was the cycle peak. Is this normal?
Was it the nolva that inhibited things?
or perhaps my diet held me back?
I continued and finished week 11 instead of twelve as gains had stopped and physically I was pretty worn out from all the intensive training by that time anyway.
I figued it would be best to wrap it up and wait for the PCT start
I’m 1 week into pct and don’t seem to have any sides from clomide and nolva. No pain in the nipples and my testes as starting to increase in size, so I figure things are working as they should.
The future
I’m Planning my next cycle to be the same and include dianabol, do we think this is the best way to go? what do I need to do in terms of preparing my liver for something like deca?
Or would another compound be better. Deca perhaps or something alike. I have read that a different kind of pct is needed for deca. Is this correct in the general opinion of those who have experience?
I have read many conflicting posts and views about this.
I’ve already researched and restructured my diet plan so that will be better in the lead up and on cycle.
I'm starting to implement it and tune it to make sure I am gaining before I actually begin.
I’m really looking to find out what adjustments I need to make to the AI’s and what additional compound to use.
I'm really curious to know if there are any good posts or articles the give a good description of the mainstream compounds, how they work and what kind of pct is needed.
I read "Makwa's" Recommended Doses for First Stacks AND more which was good, Perhaps there is something out there to supplement this info?
Thanks
TW
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To me it sounds like your estrogen raised by wk 8 so your progress stalled. As long as you increased your cals and training by then too.
Estrogen is a tricky b!tch. I wouldn't touch dbol until you find your AI sweet spot with just test. How long did you wait to start pct? Have you stopped hcg?
Thanks smith....
I took nolva at 40 for a few days until the gyno symptoms subsided then reduced to 20 then EOD
I took the last test shot and last hcg shot on wedsnesday week 11
I waited 2 weeks and began 40 nolva 100 clomide. This Wednesday will be the end of my second week
I'm planning to drop to 20 nolva 50 clomide for the last two weeks
Ok you're on the right track. Although I don't believe in hcg during cycle some do. If I were to run it on cycle it would only be during long 14wk+ cycles which I have yet to run and I would only do two weeks on two weeks off. Continuous hcg use can be bad too. I'm not sure if your 7weeks of hcg is long enough to be bad.
Next cycle, make sure your AI is from a legit source and up the dose a little. If your joint start to hurt then back off a little. Or get bloods at wk5.
I wouldn't touch dbol it's hard for me to control estrogen on it. You can try tbol or anavar if you wish to add a kickstarter. Or if you don't mind pinning kickstart with a short ester like prop.
Good luck man. Glad you got that gyno under control.
Ok, advice duly noted. When you say up the AI dose next time you mean up the dose of arimidex?
I have some test prop from a promo so I could maybe use that next time. I'll steer clear of dbol for now.
The gyno is kinda sorted. I can still feel a mild twinge from time to time in both breasts. but nothing like it was before.
It seems excessive to up my pct doses so I figured I should just carry on my current plan and see how things are in two and a half weeks and get a blood test then. Or do you think something extra needs to be done now ?
Yes increase arimidex or try aromasin, some people respond differently. Your pct is more than enough for your simple cycle as long as it's a quality product. Testicular size isn't always indication of recovery. Did they come back after your previous cycle? Was last cycles pct from same supplier? Do you have bloods from before the cycle to compare with as a baseline?
Hey smith, thanks for the reply. Sorry its been a while i have been bogged down with work and stuff.
This was my first cycle so it was a bit of a tester. I may have some blood tests to compare from before the cycle, i am waiting for them to come from my doctor.
My pct finishes this Wednesday. My nuts are back to original size but i am planning to get a blood test soon so i can see how things are
Diet is average. Could be better and healthier, I would add in more fruit and vegetables and add some quality red meat, vegetables are one of those things you can pig out on, I eat 500grams in one sitting, bacon at breakfast isnt the best, I would rather see some high protein cereal with a couple of banannas some yoghurt just as an example. The meal before bed id swap with the shake. With the rice keep it white early in day and make it brown rice later on.
Thanks for the advice flash. I really would eat more quality read meat if i could afford it!
Can you give me an example of a high protein cereal? I haven't seen any where i live. Does it contain grains or soy? If so my stomach won't take it. Also does it carry a lot of energy. I have a manual job and I'm busy every weekday morning between 7.00 & 9.00 so i need a big breakfast to get through that time.
The last meal and the shake is interesting. Is it not general opinion that you should take a shake with some kind of maltodextrin to create an insulin spike and drink it directly after training?
are you saying i should take the chicken and rice direct after training and take the shake before bed?
in which case would a slow protein be better or does it not really matter in your experience?
Nah didn't realise shake was after training, thats fine. Just alot of carb before bed. Fruit such as bananna has alot of energy you can carry with you and so does yoghurt. Have extra eggs.
Ok thanks buddy.
First and foremost did you get bloodwork done mid cycle to see were your estrogen was at?
Honestly bro u need to get down a test only cycle before adding more compounds. U think u had issue with gyno wait till u try dbol the water and bloat is significant. Your a long ways from even thinking about deca. Now some of your questions it's imperative for u to get bloods done during cycle this way u can make the proper adjustments needed.no one can tell u for certain exactly what to do we are all different but bloods don't lie. U can see if your estrogen is to high or low and make the proper adjustments. Some guys don't need an ai at your dose while others need a significant amount. Bloods will help u dial in your cycle. U hit a plateau during your first cycle it's your diet. I usually up my calories every week till the end. Hcg imo should only be used on very suppressive cycles and really no need for them during test only cycles. Even up top u say you was worn out from hard training after eleven weeks? Sounds like your diet was not on point. Do u not train hard off cycle and during pct? Bc it's imperative your diet and training are just as rigorous as they was during cycle. If not u will lose everything and this cycle will be a totally failure.pct Is the most important part of the cycle imo. This will determine your recovery and the gains u keep
Thanks guys for your posts, your experience is greatly appreciated.
I know bloods are important, I read it again and again in the forums. I tried to find somewhere to get them done but it’s not easy where I live. I have to go to the doctor and it’s a nanny state so they ask questions and if they see substance abuse in bloodtests they refer it. I’m still trying to find a private doctor who doesn’t charge hundreds of euros. Shit, I wish I lived back in the UK right now. I‘d know exactly where to go and how to get them done.
I do train and eat off cycle. As hard as I can. It’s not always easy with fulltime job 2 kids and a wife that works full time. I don’t get enough time to train and sleep as I need. That was why I was worn out by the end of the cycle, all the late nights in the gym after a hard days work on my feet (not an office job), then kids to deal with, then I get to go to the gym between 8 and 9, Train until 11pm, then bed by midnight and up again at 5.30 to do it all again. It’s hard on a 40 year old!
By the end of the cycle my Mrs was livid with me being away training all the time as well.
As for my diet, I know it wasn’t optimum, I have adjusted it and I am still eating and training regularly through the pct. There is no way I’m gonna let myself loose this…
Here is my current typical daily diet
05.30 180g bacon
100g potato wedges
9.00 200g mince 10% (homemade burger)
120g rice
50g feta cheese
11.30 200g beef/pork/salmon
120g potato or rice
50g feta
100g veg Broccoli/spinage/cauliflower
14.00 200g mince
120g mash potato
50g feta
50g veg
18.00 180g chicken/salmon/beef/pork
100g pots/rice
After training (on training days)
40g whey
40g maltodextrin
½ ltr milk
Before bed between 11 & 12
180g chiken
100g rice
50g sweetcorn
50g feta
During the day
2 bananas
50g cashews (EOD)
So this is pretty much it. Probably 20% less at the weekends
I’m intolerant to grain, oats included and nuts, including almonds and almond butter that's why the cashews are EOD
My stomach just won’t take it.
The diet I started the cycle on had more carbs, sugar and dairy. I think that’s what let me down.
But the diet posted above is how I finished the cycle and how I eat now through pct and beyond.
I'm feeling pretty good on it.
Spot on roll.
Wish he would post his diet
Posted!