CherryCola's picture
CherryCola
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Long esters vs. short esters for diet.

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Hey bro's,

im in cutting phase right now and use tren acetat and testo propionat. The injecting everyday is much more annyoing than i expected.

So i was looking for alternitives. The first question i asked myself was, what are the benefits of the short estered steroids? Well, i use testo propionat because of its lower aromatization as a result of the missing accumulation. But tren? Tren can't convert to estrogen anyways becuase of its double bind to the 9th carbon atom. So why not just just tren e and testo e with letro, adex, aromasin? Would i have all the benefits of both, long and short estered steroids combined?

Maybe even more effects because of the missing e2. Without competitive of e2, trenbolone acts as a nutrient reallocating agent. In animal testing they surgically removed the ovaries from female cows, whereby no more e2 was produced anymore. After administration of trenbolone, a significant depletion of fat and growth of muscle could be watched. Furthermore the muscle hardness increased because trenbolone bound to the mineralocorticoid.

Please proof me wrong or right!

Sorry for bad english Smile

DBALLZ's picture

I am not sure exactly what you are trying to ask, but unless you are dieting for a show, than you shouldn't have a problem switching up the esters. Except for a little water retention, possibly. But keep in mind that you will have to use more of the enanthate ester vs the acetate ester to get the same effects. It is smart to switch up esters every now and then, especially in longer cycles. In my experience I continue to make gains when I switch up esters after they sort of come to a halt during a cycle.

wlkir100's picture

Hey mate, I think you should stay with your scheme! Just add some masteron and leave the Ari/letro out...
Doing quite the same, and experience the typical dysbalance between androgens/estrogens...

Sore Joints,etc. vascular look, no bloat ... so If your Test-P Dose is low enough, just add some Masteron ....
I love doing: Mast:Test:Tren... with 1.5 Tren to Test and Mast=Test ...

cry_havoc's picture

Read this article as It will explain how cycles can be manipulated for maximization. I did a profile of Sust and you can see how the prop is in comparison to the other esters.

http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/maximizing-cycles

P's picture

Choosing an ester for your next AAS cycle is an important factor to consider. Ester lengths have the ability to define/redefine our muscular appearance, while also providing either a slow release of the main compound to which the ester is attached to or releasing the compound instantaneously. The general rule is, the longer the ester, the longer/slower the release of the main compound - products such as TNE ( Testosterone No-Ester) and Testosterone Suspension have no ester attached to them, and therefore will be transported around your body instantly.

An ester is simply a chain of atoms made up from both carbon and hydrogen - the ester is then attached to the main compound (in this case using AAS steroids - whether it be testosterone or trenbolone for example) at the 17-carbon position. Longer esters have more atoms in its chain at the 17-carbon position, thus increasing the time for the human body to break down that particular molecular chain before it breaks down the main compound.

I hear you ask, what is the purpose of an ester? - Well, esters increase the half-life of the compound it is attached to, and by doing so, one can pin (inject) less often, while crucially maintaining stable blood levels. Products like testosterone propionate require more frequent injections (preferably ED/EOD) in comparison to Testosterone Enanthate (E3D/E4D).

In order to illustrate my aforementioned point, i have presented below a list of the number of carbon atoms situated in each ester:

Formate: 1
Acetate: 2
Propionate: 3
Butyrate: 4
Valerate: 5
Hexanoate: 6
Heptanoate: 7
Enanthate: 7
Octanoate: 8
Cypionate: 8
Nonanoate: 9
Decanoate: 11

Additionally, the data below represents the ester half-life. (The pattern to notice is the more carbon atoms there are, the lengthier the half-life)

Formate: 1.5 days
Acetate: 2 days
Propionate: 3 days
Phenylpropionate: 4.5 days
Butyrate: 6 days
Valerate: 7.5 days
Hexanoate: 9 days
Caproate: 9 days
Isocaproate: 9 days
Heptanoate: 10.5 days
Enanthate: 10.5 days
Octanoate: 12 days
Cypionate: 12 days
Nonanoate: 13.5 days
Decanoate: 15 days
Undecanoate: 16.5 days

At this point in time, you may have came to the conclusion that there is no need for short-esters, since there simply is no need to be pinning unnecessarily. However, there are many more factors to consider before you begin purchasing your long-estered variants, such as the rate of aromatisation/estrogen conversion and blood level volatility for example.

The evidence for this argument results from understanding what esters are - the main variable in comparing esters is their affinity towards water retention, and at what rates the sub-cutaneous water retention is experienced. Experienced AAS users will strongly agree that the water retention experienced through running a long-estered variant such as testosterone enanthate in comparison to testosterone propionate (whereby the main compound in each product is testosterone) is significantly higher. Therefore, these experienced AAS users will tend to use the longer estered variants in their off-season and the short ester variants towards pre-contest preparations. Additionally, these sides such as increased water retention from long-estered testosterone help increase the chances of obtaining other sides such as gyno.

Another point to consider, which i have read more frequently recently is that some of our members claim that shorter estered variants are more potent than their longer estered counterparts. Well, not necessarily since they have the same compound to which the ester is attached to - however, the main difference is that in a 10ml vial of testosterone propionate, there will be a higher percentage of testosterone in the vial, in comparison to testosterone enanthate whereby there is an increased amount of ester weight.

When an ester is attached to a compound the ester makes up a percentage of the total weight of the compound - for example, testosterone cypionate contains 69.9% testosterone per mg, whereas the cypionate ester makes up 30.1% of the total weight. However, testosterone propionate contains 83.7 mg of testosterone, per mg and its ester weight is 16.3% of the compound. Additionally, since shorter esters release the parent compound into the human bloodstream at a faster rate, gains are recognised at an increased speed.

Below is a list of the more commonly used esters, which have been grouped together according to the percentage of testosterone they contain per mg - additionally, i have added breakdown of how much money is spent on the product and how much is spent on the ester (based up on RRP in USD ($) of a 10ml vial using common dosages - Rested Retail Price (term used loosely LMAO).

Percentage of Testosterone per mg - RRP ($) - Value of test - Value of ester

No Ester: 100mg---------------------$45--------$45-------------$0
Propionate: 83.72mg-----------------$35--------$29.3-----------$5.7
Enanthate: 71.99mg------------------$45--------$25.2-----------$19.8
Cypionate: 69.90mg------------------$45--------$24.47----------$20.53

Ester Value

RickRock1086's picture

Just a reminder, is easier to recover from short than long esters. To understand the ester read this hopefully it helps u a bit: http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/steroids-activ...