posted Sat, 06/07/2014 - 18:07
4132
+ 2 Increasing Collagen Synthesis vs Decreasing with High Testosterone
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Hello Is the general consensus deca/eq/hgh are the best for collagen / tendon protection?
I feel being 30+ that offering a tendon protecting compound only makes sense once you start piling the weights on the bar....
Especially with previous injuries. I would humbly ask for peoples opinions on compounds in the LOWEST dose possible to help lubricate joints/ protect tendons.
I have checked other forums and my research leads to a lot of people saying EQ is better due to sides except the RBC increases vs deca you convert to estro more.
Rbc= More hunger
Estrogen= bloating... Yet ... Some say that is what makes the joints feel better due to water??
Thank You!
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I've tried digging and digging on this topic and I can't find any solid studies on the effects of deca or even EQ (some think it has much better connective tissue repair properties) in horses and the most I find is basically this,... All AAS promote collagen synthesis. They all spike the regeneration of type 1 collagen. That's it! Clearly some produce more than others. Type 3 is associated with actual repair and strengthening. So why do you feel so good on deca? Because the influx of type 1 collagen is causing a shock absorbing effect. Lubricating if you will. But this can be potentially more hazardous than you think. Simply throwing off the ratio of type 1 to type 3 by using AAS , you risk more damage to the joints as you don't feel as much pain. Pain is your body's way of communicating. You life your right arm and it makes your shoulder hurt? Guess what, your body is saying "yo! Don't do that!" You block that signal or confuse it and the preexisting condition is still there, you are headed toward disaster.
I will say this about HGH - I tore my left biceps distal tendon last summer and the surgeon wanted to cut it all the way off and bolt it back onto the bone. I asked him about HGH. He said he couldn't ethically write a script for it but if I had access to it give it a try - it wouldn't hurt me certainly. Three - four months or so 6 IU / day - tendon healed and new MRI imaging showed it to be healed with some scar tissue. Surgeon just said in the US the medical community jury was still out on HGH.
Nitti. First I want to thank you and also apologize I cannot add Karma. I am new to the eroids forum but an old timer around other forums. So. Now to the post. It only makes sense that A)Pain before taking anything B)Pain goes away on 19-nors C)Pain comes back off eq / deca/ 19-nors
It makes sense. According to a lot of top bro science contenders on forums the best response was that it increases synoval fluid viscosity like an engine 10w-30 to 20w-50. Its basically like adding a thicker oil.
Addressing signals and blocking them... The only thing I have found that I know enough about is adequan which blocks the enzymes that cause the deterioration of the cartilage which causes the bone on bone problem. If you are naturally not producing enough fluid to lube the joints then you are fucked. I think that increasing the muscle in the body is a stupid way to go about achieving a fitness goal. There are more parts to an engine the size of the cylinder bores or the size of a turbo that make it stronger. (I.E. Connecting rods valves) That will help the engine perform LONGER and "Stronger"
Welcome! And I can see from this post alone you have at least done some homework and have a basic understanding of how these things work (forums/boards included). Keep posting bro. You may teach us a thing or 2. Or maybe learn some shit! Your karma will rise as you post and help out in the forum
I used deca at 175mgs ew and it literally did wonders for my shoulders. Even after I came off it 2 months later I'm still good to go. I couldn't even bench without pain before deca. As for test I believe up to 200mgs promotes collagen synthesis and anything over that will inhibit it.
I have been trying the low test 1:2 ratio test to aas cycles and have had no side effects from tren at all other then night sweats. I was always scared to fuck from tren. So after doing tons of research I found about the new trend in low test cycles and letting the aas compounds do the work
So 175 ew could you add anything else you cycled with:? Or was it for crusing?
Because.... 100mgtest and 175 sounds good for a cruise. A member from another forum says they stay year round on deca but they didn't say there dose.
Lol i wasn't purposely on 200mgs test and 175 npp. Thought I was on 600 test and I believe it was 425 npp. Turned out the npp was only about 43% pure and judging by my blood work the test must have less then 100mg/ml as my test levels were barely out of normal range. So essential I shut myself down and wasted 8 or 9 weeks just to replace my test with a trt dose and just enough npp for some joint support. I was coming back from an inury were I lost like 18lbs and that cycle literally gave my back exactly the 18lbs I lost and not a single ounce more. So it had mostly to due with muscle memory I believe
Edit: sorry I read your post wrong. What I've read is test will promote it up until 200mgs and anything over that basically does the opposite. I'll try to dig up what I was reading but the compounds deca, test in the dose I listed and anavar will promote collagen synthesis. Can't remember the dose of var, or of you were supposed to run the together. Do some googling, it's been brougkt up a lot on other forums so it should be easy to locate.
low test high tren works wodners. thats what im doing. 250 test, 150-200 deca, and 600 tren. no to low bloat. low test to keep libido and low deca for some joint benefits and higher tren as the work horse in the stack
OK so someone who wont judge for a blasphemous tren/deca stack. I want to state that low dose deca and test are being used for anyone who is a mod and reads this. I am doing 250 test 500 tren and last night I added 200 mg deca. I am bulking anyway. My only concern was deca dick. Shutdown doesn't apply to me due to a genetic issue that requires lifelong trt since age 18.
I was thinking with 100mg/100mg deca/eq + hgh 4iu along with boat loads of proven supplements / Adequan would be a good experiment
I've been looking for a definitive answer on what causes deca dick for a very long time and it seems the issue is still being debated. The idea that if there is not enough DHT being 5-alpha reduced from the Test and abundant amounts of the weaker DHN are being 5-alpha reduced from the nandrolone and DHN just doesn't rise to the occasion in replacing DHT - that theory seems to make some sense to me. Therefore it seems for many, that if test is run high enough and there is enough DHT for erectile function, this side is many times avoided. I certainly hope with low test and low deca that you don't run into this.
This is not something I'd like to share openly being its .... Pretty strong as far as cycles go.
I will share it openly in this thread because I feel the minds in here are open to advancement of bro science and prevention of newbies making mistakes.
My main concern was bloat followed by deca dick. I had levels of 160 test before trt and it wasn't from cycles. Its a family genetic condition. I still grew 6 feet tall weighed 220... And could bench 250. That leads me to two things. ^_^ I am genetically gifted while being genetically damned. Gains where huge off 100 mg test. N.e. way back to subject. I grew to getting deeper into my trt dose and started feeling better and better more alpha as we call it. after going past .5ml It started to rape my body and I am very sterile. I used to study mycology and it would make most guys on here cry from frustration due to sterility and proper procedure. There isn't one exercise or technique I fuck around with.
With that being put into perspective... I am reaching my response to your dht. If one where to hit deca and the true reason behind Deca DIck is Dht is to blame/dhn ... Why not hit a cycle - Test 250/deca200-400/Masteron 100-150 + Other AAS if desired.
Masteron is DHT based...
so far with me at least. low test low deca high tren i havent ran into issues
I am thinking- Low dose masteron enathate 100mg weekly
At low bf% would harden you up along with the health benifits (As long as you don't have MPB)
Help block the bloat of deca/test and this dht deca dick issue?
That's good bro.
I sometimes think that folk just don't give nandrolone and drugs like deca and NPP the respect they deserve. They are pure esterified 19-nortestosterone and are big ass drugs with big ass sides. I read what some people write about these compounds and you would think they are talking about GNC supplements. :(
its recommended to keep test and deca at a 2:1 ratio. even on the stack im on. i dont have any ED issues. and besides i always keep some kind of PDE5 on hand. and yes deca and tren are both 19 nors but low dosing the deca just for joint benefits is fine. and keep prami or something on hand for prolactin. everyone's body reacts different.
RustyhookerTrt and deca Dick is two different hormone activities. So its not impossible at all. Dht is not dhn.
the lowest deca for joint support is 150mg i currently use 150-200 just for the joint support
OK so just a little deca is needed. I think that is the route to go. .5cc EXTRA a week for the health benifits is worth it
All deca will do is mask it. Igf-1 production via peptides/HGH. Even vitamin B-12 has been known to help joint pain
i would stack low deca with GH. the deca does help with pain and lubrication and stacking with either low to medium does GH work great 2-5 iu ed
Vitamin C too is required as it is a cofactors for the growth of collagen fibers. Vitamin C also has anti inflammatory properties too
stacking 3 grams daily of vitamin c + I take gsm,chondrotrin and glucoasimine.
PRE-WORKOUT:
L-Citrulline Malate - 3 grams
L-Arginine (micronized) - 2 grams
L-Lysine - 2 grams
L-Methionine - 1 gram
Pycnogenol - 120 mg (this stuff is not cheap)
POST WORKOUT:
L-Cysteine - 1 to 2 grams
Vitamin C - 2 grams
BEFORE BED
L-Tyrosine - 1 gram
L-Glutamine - 1.5 grams
Magnesium Citrate - 400 mg
This is for my brain
L-Tryptophan - 1,000 mg in the morning, and 500 mg around lunchtime. (You may increase second dose to 1000 mg later)
L-Theanine - 400mg in the morning, and 400 mg around lunchtime.
GABA did wonders on my joint too. I would take about 1.5g before bed and within 3 weeks I felt an improvement.
How much was due to the supposed increase in GH? Idk but I felt more rested due to the increase in REM sleep so I feel that the rest alone helped
Can you pm the details or studies. Interested. I can add it to my amino stack on my profile states.
Nitti I have a peptide stack I found which a person put together for injury repair. Its very very tidious due to the timing of injections and various peptides. After looking into it I have done a bit of research into the peptides but let me share it here so you can give your input ... ( My research has led to just hit HgH 4 iu a day for the win)
Pre Workout - 15 min pre 100mcg DES Bi-Lat Post Workout - 15 min Post workout 300mcg MGF Bi-Lat - 15 min after MGF Dose GHRP/CJC Combo 150mcg or more of each - 20 Min After GHRP Combo Dose 120mcg IGF-LR3 Sub Q Non Workout Days Dose PEG MGF 200mcg Sub Q ghrp2/cjc 150mcg or more upon wakeup and before bed. Workout Days: - 200mcg GHRP-2 & 200mcg CJC-1295 w/o Dac ( Morning, Post Workout 15min after MGF Dose, Pre Bed)
18% 225 L5-S1 HERNIATED DISC SURGERY 2009
cycles dbol 4-5 week kick start on 2 cycles of test 500 w
3rd cycle dbol 5 weeks deca400mg+test 250 mg10 weeks
Tren 4 cycles at 250mg test/ 400 mg tren
Cruise on trt 50 mg e3.5d Prescribed my choice of arimidex or aromasin currently taking 12.5 mg daily.
Also tried a clomid "restart" which determined its a family genetic problem before I used gear. I only use gear after getting trt for a few years.
Taking austinites amino stack also along with his vitamin protocol.
250-300 gram protein daily
Not interested in anything cutting wise with Eq due to not giving a fuck about being cut up. I couldn't walk when I was 19 years old tell I was 21. I got adequan/ichon but lost my stash :(
I get bad knee clicking and can box squat all day but as soon as I squat oldschool ... I can't even put up 135 without that dreaded knee pain. (Box squats are miracles..)
I also have this clicking in my neck when i turn left or right.
Just found out about a rare bone issue in the family called Ankylosing spondylitis and the trt is related to another family condition.
The Ankylosing spondylitis cause bone fusion so I need to figure something out ... Sorry to be so personal but I want the best formula for the problem here and Don't want to be looked at as ignorant.
RustyhookerBone fusion is Hella rare. Damn :(
You've got a host of serious issues going on. Deca adds water but that can mask injuries. Eq is long slow and grow. Anavar has been noted to help. Hgh has been noted to help.
Im not sure which way to advise. If it was me, I'd try for mobility first. Thats redoing diet and trimming off tge fat. I know you aren't looking for hard cuts but being mobile is first step. Higher bf can raise issues. Higher SBH,, estro, strokes, heart issues. Stuff I'm sure you researched. Seems easier if you lean down then slowly rebuild your machine.
Trt dosing with light run of eq at 400/week. Gotta pay close attention to bp! Which agsin goes to lean down and clean foods. Eq cyp is faster acting. Var last 6 Weeks will kill eq hunger and help collagen. 50Mg/day is plenty. Careful though as var boosts strength a lot. Keep your gym time as form and reps over brute strength.
Lean first. Hope you heal up
I watch my dad trip over shit every day due to his foot not being able to move and he has a hard time lifting it. I see your point in what my Dad is suffering with because I see the bone fusion has 30 years on me and he is probably 290-300 pounds. I always tell him to diet down and hell feel better. We both suffer from two genetic issues which the other one causes the need for trt at about puberty due to tumors. I am doing trying to do deep family records to track down the genes which caused it but due to having a fucked up hormone level from youth and along with the family members I try to talk to - No one gets along. My dad is a lost case. The only thing I can do is learn from him and take the knowledge from people here.
Now not to defend myself just so you can understand. I have never felt better now that I am building strength in the areas which caused me so much pain. So all my cycles previous have been for 1. Testing my reaction to AAS 2. Repair 3. Uneducated as far as I am concerned now .... With that being said. I must also defend that... I always do my research and 250mg with 180-400 mg tren is the safest. I did try deca at 200mg but i didn't feel it and had to get my glands removed into the middle of that cycle from pubecent gyno caused my my trt issue.
If you can I sent a peptide protocol above this post for repair. I have read eq is 370% deca 250% primobolan 150% etc. ANd anavar is somewhere around there in tendon/cart repair. I am extremely interested in anavar as a "Safer" oral to add to a gentle cycle for joint repair. I am going to double up my research on it.
Also I edited this to ask if you can or know anyone who can provide me some solid diet protocols?
RustyhookerMagnifying glass up top. Sgtstedanko has full menus posted. Cluck on his name. Read his forums.
I've read a lot of his posts. Will he ever be back?
RustyhookerHe comes n goes. Good dude!
RustyhookerBf%, priors and goals for your research?