posted Sun, 05/24/2015 - 10:30
3716
Extreme lethargy on cycle (Help needed)
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Dear eroid members,
I had a weird lethargy in my previous cycle when i was running 500 mg sustanon, 40 mg dbol a day and 500 mg deca durabolin. it went to extreme few weeks before the end of cycle.
now i am currently on test prop 100 mg eod, tren ace 100 mg eod and 70 mg wins a day and it has come back again just 2 weeks to the end of my current cycle. I feel sleepy all the time although i sleep 9-10 hours a day. can it be due to the strong oral and my liver values? or since i am spending almost all day infront of computer at office, can it be the reason?
i would highly appreciate any help or advice.
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Nordic_ThorUpdate:
""First of all i am very very thankful to all the dear members of eroids who take their time and provided me some good knowledge regarding my situation. i highly appreciate each and every one's input and i am glad that there is lot to learn and gain from eroids and experience and advice of members""
I will be doing blood works very soon. the last blood work was done a month ago which came back normal except slight elevation in bad cholestrol levels and decrease in good cholestrol.
After reading a lot on eroids and comments and advice of dear members, i doubt that my liver values might be high but it can only be confirmed after the blood work but as a precaution I have now dropped the winstrol to see if the lethargy was due to liver values and also i have started taking AI.
Curious if you ran bloods on that last cycle, or between cycles?
What are you eating? Carbs late or not? Late night sweats? Cold chills?
What is your body temp mid day and right before bed and if and when you wake up early mornings? (Several hours after sleep comes) Also check your blood glucose levels right before bed and upon waking in the middle of the night? You can buy a glucose monitor for 20 at a drug store.
One possible reason I believe is a rebound hypoglycemic response from the insulin spike you may be getting from the carbs late at night. Your thermogenesis is off the chart which is why i am curious as to your body temp at the time of late evenings. Yes your T3 is probably being impacted but the only smart play here is to get labs and track all if your levels. You will not be able to follow your E2 as these levels are thrown off on tren.
Keep a log of what you are eating and your symptoms as well as the things I mentioned above. Mainly if you can track your symptoms during night rest it will also tell you what's happening to you during your sleep cycle. Just because you are getting sleep does not mean they are quality hours. Also if you are taking anything else like benzos (Xanax) for sleep this would impede long REM states which is where your batteries recharge.
Good luck.
Nordic_ThorMy diet is quite clean at the moment. taking somewhere between 3500-4000 calories, mostly includes chicken, rice, vegetables, whole grains etc. mostly consuming high proteins, moderate fat and low carbs.
yes sir i do have terrible night sweats. when i wake up i am soaked in sweat. my body temp during the day remains pretty normal but at evenings little bit high. Early mornings mostly i feel like shit. i do not want to get up from the bed. even sleeping for about 9 or 10 hours i keep on laying down on bed. my glucose levels are also normal at night and before bed i consume casein and whey protein.
i will soon do blood works to see where is the real problem.
thank you very much for your input. highly appreciate.
Are you eating white rice and is it at night. The first thing you would try if you way to avoid the sweats and night issues, would be to cut carbs after 5 pm. All carbs. While I think this is counterproductive for tren in will mitigate the sides you are feeling greatly.
Nordic_Thori am eating brown rice with chicken but in a very small amount and yeah sometimes i eat it in the dinner too.
ok i will cut the carbs completely after 5 pm. will take only proteins and good fats in low amounts especially in evenings..
I think you will be amazed at the results. Keep us posted!
E2 can be tracked with quest diagnostic labs(labsmd.com). They use either IA or LC/MS/MS not the Roche ECLIA method that shows a false high. A male hormone panel from labsmd will give the OPs Thyroid, Lipid, Liver, IGF, and E2(in LC/MS/MS) and that is what I would recommend to get. As well as add in prolactin levels. The total for the tests would be around $220 but worth every penny.
Will it also give total free test, albumin and SHBG?
It does not give SHBG but gives the rest. Here is a list of what it gives for $172 plus $48 for prolactin test on top of it:
Complete Blood Count / CBC (includes Differential and Platelets): WBC, RBC, Hemoglobin, Hematocrit, MCV, MCH, MCHC, RDW, Platelet Count, MPV and Differential (Absolute and Percent - Neutrophils, Lymphocytes, Monocytes, Eosinophils, and Basophils)
Comprehensive Metabolic Profile ( includes eGFR ): Albumin, Albumin/Globulin Ratio (calculated), Alkaline Phosphatase, ALT, AST, BUN/Creatinine Ratio (calculated), Calcium, Carbon Dioxide, Chloride, Creatinine with GFR Estimated, Globulin (calculated), Glucose, Potassium, Sodium, Total Bilirubin, Total Protein, Urea Nitrogen
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS
Insulin-Like Growth Factor I (IGF-I, LC/MS)
Lipid Profile: Cholesterol, total; high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol; low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (calculated); triglycerides; Non-HDL Cholesterol (calculated)
Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA)
Testosterone, Free and Total, LC/MS/MS (This testosterone test will also provide results when the total testosterone value is >1500.)
Thyroid Profile w/ TSH: T3 Uptake; T4 (Thyroxine), Total; Free T4 Index (T7); Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone (TSH)
Blood work should be figured into the cost of every cycle, because like you said it is worth every penny, especially when things go awry like they have here. Nobody has any business running a cycle if the can't afford blood work.
X2. Always factor lab costs and food budget increase in my cycle costs.
If you're the type of freak that tracks that shit!!!
If libido is okay it could be liver stress. Are you using anything for liver support? Are you using and AI on this cycle?
interesting discussion here, did not know about the tren to thyroid connection.
Something else to add to mid cycle bloods.
Is prolactin known for having lethargy as a side effect, maybe that's why sex is always followed up with a deep sleep.
Yes prolactin can cause lethargy but also kills sex drive so deep sleep after sex I would think would not be a link between the two.
You need to do bloods first, last time i had it, my liver values were out of whack and i had to drop the orals, after that in about two weeks i was feeling great again.
TronFr accepted
10-4
Are you using an ai? I don't see it above.
Nordic_Thorthank u v much for the input dear fellow member, i was not using it but now i have added arimidex and dropped winstrol.
Pull bloodwork because if you don't know the cause your throwing possible solutions to a problem hoping something will stick when you don't even know what the cause is. When it comes to my body i don't like guessing I like figuring out the problem the correct way then fixing it, because if not its just all shots in the dark , which could have a detrimentall effect if you don't figure out the issue that could be serious.....
Nordic_Thorthank u v much for the feedback. yes i will do blood works soon. and taken some extra precautions immediately
TronI want everyone to see this.. if you give a guy like this stupid fucking advice that could potentially get the guy killed your shit's gonna end up right here
https://www.eroids.com/og/who-is-the-biggest-douche-bag-on-this-site/you...
I sent you a FR. Didn't realized we were not connected.
Tronaccepted.
AnonYour the stupid one I guarantee you his problem will go away in a few days with what I said as proven with myself and coworkers. But to each their own
Look bro, seriously, Tren always trashes my T3 and I must supplement with T3 or I can't even get out of bed in the morning when running Tren. Tren is notorious for crashing T3.
That said, I wouldn't tell someone to take T3 without first looking a a blood test for confirmation. It takes one day to turn around a blood test if you are just looking for a thyroid profile. But a full CBC or CMP is one day as well so he might as well get a full liver and kidney and hematological panel done as well.
RustyhookerTake the bickering over to bickering group. The op needs real advice.
TronSorry, I'm not trying to bicker back and forth with the guy but his "advice" already has me heated and then he comes on here and calls me stupid lol.. He's been warned on other SI's already by mods for some of his posts.. well, at least one I witnessed personally so the best thing to do is not indulge him further.. he won't last much longer i assure you.
RustyhookerWas addressed to fitness. Don't stress bro
TronI know but I should of been more mature and not argued back at him.. My anger kind of got the best of me lol
RustyhookerMe too. There's great info but gotta keep folks safe first.
TronI never called you stupid and name calling is kiddie shit.. I said your advice was stupid and I have seen mods warn your ass for saying stupid shit on other SI's and now your calling me stupid?? I'm not going to argue with you because you're not taking in what everyone else is telling you on here and i'm beginning to think you like to troll just to get a rise out of people. "I guarantee you his problem will go away in a few days with what I said" .. what if his problem is his kidneys or liver and not what you "think it may be" .. Think before you post man... I've got nothing else for you smfh..
AnonNothing for you over here either bud. Enjoy your day
No one here can help u, get blood work and come back. You guys really need to stop messing with hormones if your not willing to get bloods done on a reg basis. Might be from high estro who know? No one will until u get bloods.
RustyhookerStats? Goals? Priors? Where the hell is blood test? Where's your ai? How much ai?
TronI was thinking maybe his estrogen is really high.. he didn't list any ai at all and if he's not using one or never used one then that could for sure be the problem
RustyhookerFirst and easiest to pop on screen. Excellent! Bigger picture will definitely help everyone reading
TronHe was over here in this group ready to defend himself literally 5 minutes or less after he posted his "advice" for this guy.. he KNEW he gave B.S. advice!!
https://www.eroids.com/og/who-is-the-biggest-douche-bag-on-this-site/you...
AnonActually I am always clicking on feed and it popped up.?
Rustyhooker...
dontgivemeadviceMy guess would be liver or kidney issue due to orals. I know that's what happened to me. My values were all ducked up and I was lethargic as shit. Or it could be the tren. Shot makes me mad tired. Are you running igf. That makes me tired. Could be a lot of things. Can you write up full cycle. All details.
RustyhookerAsking for bigger picture!!! Boom! +2
AnonAdd 50mcg t3 every day
TronThis man may have a serious health issue here and you are telling him to add a thyroid hormone to all the compounds he is already taking?? do you realize there are guys that turn to this forum for REAL advice and if he were to take your advice to heart not knowing any better you could be the cause of a serious health problem or even death of this person??!! Think before you post these things man! -1 and you can pm me if you want to talk about it
RustyhookerThat's bullshit advice!!! Explain why you're pushing drugs when op has no mention of AI OR BLOODS???
-2
AnonTren makes many feel extremely lethargic and t3 will absolutely help with that
The guy is in his 20 and your telling him to run t3? You really want him to mess with his thyroid at this age? Come on man
RustyhookerStill bs bro. Dude ran no bloods whatsoever to prove thyroid was needed at all. You did not ask for bloods, ai, cycle weeks in, nothing. Just pop a magic pill that makes kill your thyroid forever. And dude woulda been jacked up, still lethargic and thyroid fried. Over what screams out ANTI AROMATASE AND BLOOD TESTS.
You know better.
TronRight! what if the guys fucking kidneys are failing?!! what if his liver enzymes are severely elevated!!?? You just gonna throw a little T3 in there for shits and giggles to see if it is the Tren?? Could get a guy killed giving advice like that.. fuck i'm pissed!!