Full body training volume.... Am I overtraining?
I'll try to make this as short as possible but include all relevant info. TIA for your patience in reading the following.
Lifting for 17 years, but on and off, probably 7-8 years total. Bro split for the most part. Full body 3 days p/w for the last 1.5 years, now trying day on/day off.On prescribed TRT. 4 full cycles and 1 blast abandoned at 11 weeks due to tendon injury. Many significant tendon and joint injuries, wrists, hands, bicep tendon, lower back, shoulders and hips, all stemming from what appears to be psoratic arthritis. Despite the injuries I still maintain a good routine with decent weight and volume, makes me happy as I'm sure it does for the rest of you.
Question at hand. The following is 1 day from a day on/day off routine. The exercises differ, 5x5 is SBD with the 6th set a drop set to failure, variations for the same muscle groups on all other exercises. My diet is good, calories just above maintenance for the time being and about to blast and increase calories. Although I know what I am doing for the most part, I am my own worst enemy when it comes to volume. I have the tendency to feel as if I am not doing enough and add more exercises in. So please check out the info below and let me know what you think. It takes me around 2hrs 10min to complete.
6x5 Deadlift 140kg
4x10 DB incline bench 35kg DB's
3×12 DB squeeze press 17.5kg DB's
4x10 DB lateral raise 12.5kg DB's
3x12 DB upright row 17.5kg DB's
4x10 lat pulldown 120kg
3x12 Seated row 120kg
4x10 BB front squat 90kg
1x100 Olympic BB curl 20kg rest pause
4x10 skullcrusher 40kg
4x10 DB shrugs 40kg DB's
4x10 cable crunch 70kg
4x20 jack knife sit up
4x20 each leg standing calf raise
3x1 minute DB farmers Walk 35kg DB's
Again, Thanks in advance for sharing your opinion and the info you have available to you.
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Full body training was common in the past and people got great results. But they weren't doing that many exercises. And pull-ups>pull-downs.
Well, what is the goal you are trying to achieve from this? Are you trying to build muscle for bodybuilding purpose? You trying to get stronger? Full body routines do have their place depending on your goal. This one seems a little much .
Dedicated full body routines are probably the least effective for bodybuilding past your first 1-2 years of training. However, they are fine to do on occasion such as if you get crunched for time at the end of the week and can't do your other 2 upper/lower workouts but still want to stimulate everything in one workout. I personally favor upper/lower because it keeps me on track with leg frequency; for upper body I pick a bodypart I want to focus on for 2-3 exercises, then do just 1 maintenance exercise for the each of the rest of the upper body parts, so with a twice a week frequency the net result is pretty good.
Not a good set up. You have to much overall volume and are just going to blow out your CNS and cause a cascade of catabolism but you really don't have enough volume for individual body parts to elicite a strong growth response for those individual muscles. I only see stagnation and possibly even regression if you continue on with that workout. Full body workouts only work for newbs coming into the gym. Once you get some gym time under your belt you have to switch to a hypertrophy based routine if you want to grow, or a strength program if you want to primarily focus on strength. Many people fall into the trap of I'll just add some more sets and will grow. Not that simple.
Here are the overall basics for setting up a program
https://www.eroids.com/forums/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/b...
https://www.eroids.com/forums/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/m...
Now you can design your own program based upon that or follow some example programs I have created.
Some of these are fairly advanced so you may have to ease into them. You are also going to need to eat a lot of protein to stay in a positive nitrogen balance since you will be tearing up a lot of fibers with these workouts and need to always be in a positive balance to really grow.
https://www.eroids.com/forums/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/p...
https://www.eroids.com/forums/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/g...
https://www.eroids.com/forums/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/m...
https://www.eroids.com/forums/training-nutrition-diet/workout-exercise/m...
PropheticWookieI completely agree that the training program is too heavy for him. It will overload the central nervous system and it will have overtraining or injury.
Thanks for such an informative post with links. I open a lot of interesting things for myself.
That's some really good info. I gotta say, there's a ton of good info on this site.
Thanks for your comment and for the great information supplied. I think the difficult thing for me with any one of these programs is being able to commit to training that many days p/w. I work big hours, run a small business and have children. I can only really train day on/off due to commitments to the above and I guess I have just tried to cram as much in during the tine I have available. Would you have any suggestions? Maybe day on/off upper/lower split? Open to any suggestions. Thanks
Like Makwa said, where theres a will theres a way. Kiddo and business to run here as well. On days I'm busy and still need to hit the gym twice in a day, I go super early (between 3 to 5 am) and late, right before dinner. How bad do you want it?
Makwa is right on the workouts too. Isolate two muscle groups. Do 4-6 exercises per muscle group. 4-6 sets each. If you want to grow you need to hit each muscle group twice a week. Full body workouts are what middle school kids do. You can get away with doing it every once in a while, but its definitely not the ideal thing to do.
PropheticWookieI would say full body workouts are usually used by guys who don't want to figure out how to train more effectively or who have very little time.
The one rule for working out is that you will never have time to do it, you have to make time to do it.
That's a lot of sets. To me, you're doing too much. How can you have any energy to do your last few exercises justice (before abs, I mean)? If it was me, I'd focus on a more basic full body, less sets, and work it hard as hell. You're doing every other day? You've got to allow some recovery time. Somewhere in your schedule, take a couple days in a row for recovery. I came up believing in the idea of recovery equaling more growth. I know volume and frequency are a thing nowadays. but I still think you need to recover more.
Thanks for your comment. I eat a high calorie, high carb, high protein meal pre and post workout. I am also about to increase my calories to 3300 for a lean bulk. I'll continue to up calorie intake so long as I don't start to add to much fat.
I think you have to increase your calories especially before and after workout if your gona workout like that and trying to add that size
RustyhookerSo whats your goal here? Strong man?
I see lots of people talking about lean muscle, and they train like strongman and powerlifters. And they graze like deer. And they see no progress. And they throw a ton of aas at the problem. Then they get an intense amount of water and glycogen weight. Then they lift even heavier with shorter reps. Then they come off cycle and lose 80-90%.
People need to train for their goals PERIOD.
You want lean muscle? Eat more protein lower the carbs and train like a endurance athlete.
You want to be stronger and lift like a gorilla? Add a balance of carbs to the protein; lift heavier weights and progress each week to heavier.
You want to spin your wheels? Don't change anything, start a cycle of multiple compounds, Go to the gym and just train with no goals, eat whatever you want, skip rest, and gain nothing. Blame the drugs.
RustyhookerYou said it! Even when i pushed for power ive never seen a layout like that. And food alone should be the big bank option always.
Goal is to add 10kg of lean muscle and increase strength over the next few years. I achieved my desired physique in my 20's with a bro split, then lost it in my ealry 30's. When I resumed training a few of years ago, I wasn't making progress with that method of training. I went to full body with less volume then shown above and got half decent results. Now I have over researched and have confused myself a bit. I know I don't recover well if I train consecutive days, so that option is out. I know everyone responds differently to different types of stimulus, but hoped some experienced guys on here may be able to offer some guidance.
You dont build lean muscle strongman training, you build dense muscle. Dense muscle is big and thick. Convert to a more bodybuilder training with lots of cardio.
You aren't overtraining; you're overthinking. Gains start in the kitchen and end with proper rest. You can train 7 days a week if you wanted and not overtrain if you are switching it up and matching food and rest with your goals. You could put on 10kg of lean muscle in less than 6 months. DOMS is not any measure of a great workout; the Mirror and scale is.
RustyhookerI think youre overtraining but thats just me. I hit upper...lower...upper...
Arms/delts...off. so i can focus on each part.
Yeah, I agree, that amount of work strikes me as potential overtraining. You mentioned your doing upper, lower, upper, lower... Are you doing the PPL drill? Just wondering, and, if you are, your thoughts?
I gotta agree, looks like over training to me to.
AnonNo, if you are making progress.
Yes, if you are not making progress or losing gains.
I don't know what you're training for. Telling us what you're fitness goals are will help others give you better advice.
You make a good point. I've not left out my goals intentionally. I want to add 10kg of lean muscle over the next 2-3 years and then maintain moving forward from there. I've only recently started day on/day off. Also have only recently increased the volume of my sessions. Cheers
AnonGive it time and see what results you get. If you have trouble recovering and it's not diet or sleep related then you will need to change things up. I sometimes do full body but not more than once a week. Other days I focus on certain areas.