Alright here we go, I've written this three times over the last couple months and then erased and closed the topic. The problem with the subject I am about to touch on is that people will take me wrong and use what it is I'm referring to in a way not intended. I had a discussion last night with one of the advanced guys, and we have many, and the topic was "outside the box". The reason I say outside the box is that once you have used compounds for a long period of time you begin to do experiments. Someone who impressed me early on with this was roidnoid and I saw many writes of his where he would write cycles that were essentially synergistic, meaning not just one compound to do this and one to do that, but compounds that work with others to actually enhance the original and visabersa.
So heres the deal, many of us have the fear and have had the fear that our discussions if in the open would extend themselves into the "newb" or "common" thought processes . Its tougbh for many of us to have PM's and emails with each other when our ideas would be better talked about in a thread together to be bounced off of each other and discussed and debated. Last night a good friend of mine here said "I know it could not be done but it woluld be nice if we had a locked thread only some of us could enter". I know that sounds weird to many but we simply do not want these ideas becoming the new thing in the mainstream of our community. Many of us have worked very hard for a long time to set all the protocols this board has adopted. Such as test only first run, only add one compound at a time to learn the compounds and learn their effects on each other etc. This is the only way to learn how to manipulate your body without just throwing things at the wall in combination to see if it sticks. Because of that hard work all of our crazy thoughts and crazy ideas have been kept behind the curtains. So anyway, this member and I were talking and he said I have talked to x,y,z and have the votes that say we should be able to talk a little more open without fearing our thoughts will become mainstream, what say you? Well, I agreed. Its this, if you are new to gear you can't go straight to the topand if you do after being advised otherwise, thats on you.
I think what has helped keep me shut with out of the box talk is AEROK. You can imagine being someone who spoke to him daily right up to his death the thoughts of "outside the box" bring him to my mind. I have this in my corner, I advised him "daily" to slow down. Advised him daily, including in the thread we have posted leading to his death, to drop the insulin discussion, not there yet, if ever. All we can do is advise, we can't be their mommy and if we could, molmmies babies die every single day from doing things Mommy taught them not to do. So this sounds deep right? Well, the topics won't be as crazy as I might have you thinking by now, and thats good but they might be outside the manstream. I'll give a prime example before I get to my topic outside the box. 19 nor esters. We preach dual 19's is an absolute no no. It is, thats because newbs ruin themselves with a single 19 use not knowing what they are doing or running without a test base or running them way too long. I talked to a guy who had ran tren ace for nearly a yr at 18 years old and now at 21 he has no natty test! His numbers are that of a 70 yr old man, permanent axis damage, trt for life at 21. So you can see why resposible people bust there ass here to make you right, make you successful in a healthy way etc. It has been known that I got a little frustrated with a few members for running around here like chickens with their heads cut off frustrated and pissed at newbs. Frustrated because I know what they are feeling. Its frustration with new guys about to hurt themselves and unfortunately that sometimes comes out as anger but they were acting on their passion for this and their compassion for new guys they want to help and protect.
Bottom line, we want the new guys and all guys to he safe but its time we can have some open talks about our lives too, those of us who have used for many yrs that is. I actually liked the thread of Nitti's where he went
Designer in discussion and labeled it vets only. That may be what we have to do and then just hope the new generations don't take it on as "the norm" in terms of early use. If you do we advised against it and thats on you.
Alright so to add to the newr gereration of talks outside the box I'll kick it off with what I call "HGH, BORN AGAIN". I USED THAT TITL?E BECAUSE i think my new topic will be something never talked about, never discussed outside of myself and a coupl?e otehers and with anything new, there will be controversy and debate. I have had this convo with guys in PM but have erased the topic 2 times now just wondering, is it time? Well, today it is and like it or love it I'm laying down my thoughts on the new hgh thoughts and some science and opinion all wrapped into one. I'm goling to start with a very bold statement that might even turn off some of the big dogs like Vike, who never felt as though he needed hgh. The one thing I know about people like Vike though, he is open minded. You have to be to he successful and to grow with anything you do or you gtet left behind. Remember, at one point in time they thought if went over about 50 miles an hr in a car or vehicle you would not be able to breath. Glad we pusjed ourslves outside the box because I have to run about 80 to get to work on time given I wait to the last minute to leave!
So lets begin and I hope you are someone who lasted through this much writing, if you didn't , you don't have the patience to be here anyway, or you don't like me in which case, suck it Ed!
HGH has essentially had 3 uses to date.
1. For growth issues for children with pituitary problems, its original use
2. Hrt for anti-aging
3.Bodybuilding to create new muscle growth not attainable with oils and orals alone
Today I hope to add a 4th to the list and again, it will be met with some outcry opposing it as all things do.

L?et me re-explain in boring fashion something I have touched on many many times here without goiing to this length previously. What happens in the body when a hormone is put in with a syringe or orally etc? There is an action that occurs right? So what did we learn in school about action? Every action has a reaction right? Exactly...so lets talk about action/reaction. The action was simply the addition of hormone. Now we talk about the complex matter of what the the body does with that action and not get too too scientific. In order for the body to create all the necessary balances there are regulations that are coodinated with the brain and glands to create balance and work towrads homeostasis. Such as if the thyroid puts out T-4, tha is a reaction. The brain reads the action that has occured and assesses the need ,if any. So if T-r level is higher than the brain deeks normal it sends another reaction to lower TSH. TSH is present for pos/neg feedback loop. So as it lowers in number that action is called negative feedback. The feedback the thyroid loop recieves is stop producing T-4, it is too high. Then the thyroid comes back into balance.
So now lets ask, what happens when you inject testosterone? That is an acion right? So what responce in negative and positive feedback loop occurs? Think of the axis (hpta), what is an axis used for? Balance right? So if the axis is there for the soul purpose and I just threw a shovel full of test on one side and that scale drops hard on that side what is the bodies primary job in homrone? Balance! So what then occurs is there is a feedback as dicussed above. The feedback is simply "holy shit, look at all this test!!!" That tel the HP to say "holy shit, look at all that test!!!!" It then fired up the glands and calls in all the part timers and has to fully staff to bring enough natty gh to make that balanc happen. Make no mistake there will be balance one way or the other or you have problems! Such as what happens if you have high thyroid or low insulin etc? You are unhealthy right? So in this case there is no difference, without that balance what you are doing is not the healthiest thing in the woldm so what did occur back there is that the hp gave it its all, it busted it ass for you brother and when the day ended they found while they did increase natty gh there was simply too much test to make tye full balance. So was the excess test wasted then is the question? Yes, to some degree. The body will utilize some of that exceess but it is or was not in the most efficient way, the use was minimalized and the most important thought there was IT WAS NOT THE HEALTHIEST WAY TO RUN YOUR CYCLE IMO!!!. NORMONE OUT OF BALANCE IS UNHEALTHY RIGHT, WE AT LEAST AGREE THERE CORRECT?
Sol now we begin to get to the heart of mmy thoughts. The "new" use for hgh in the cycle and pct run only. Ahhhh but Tread, you of all people know you can't just use hgh in the cycle, you said yourself, hgh has to be ran 6 months minumum to get thegh effect from it. Weeeeelllllllllllll, that is true actually but thankfully I have an open mind and love learning about this that we do. What I said is true in that "if you are looking to stack on a bunch of extra muscle with hgh real?ly you do need 2 or 3 cycles deppending on short or long in a yr with hgh blast and cruise within that yr. Thats not what I'm talking about though, in fact, I want to get off that topic enirely here today to discuss our health and more productive cycles as well as better hormone balanc in the cycle which are the reason for the first 2 things I mention iin tbis sentence, run on sentence as it were. For today lets discuss what I deem to be its "new" use. Cycle and pct only and I'll tell you why right now.
We just dicusse what occurs in the axis when you run oil and the fact your axis and hormone base is essentjally out of balance your entire cycle andwe have to agree while the cycle if proper to goal and not abused can be healthy in the ?ong run. why not talk about why the cycle itself might need to be healthier and not just the long term effect? Why not balance this cycle with hgh in low dose, not looking for the gh effect but rather looking for the balanc in hormone effect and a morre productive cycle all around?
Her is my theory and I want the debates, I want the arguments because I wnt to be right for the right reasons. I believe test at 500 with 2 iu's of hgh (good hgh) ed will yiled a more productive and MUCH HEALTHIER cycle than 2 comounds rran higher in mg's. Reason,you are actually in balance and the body is a much more effective machine in balance than when its out of balance. The furnace has time to kick on more efficiently than in the mass flucuatiion cycle you ran before hgh.such as AC cracked on high on a 100 degree day but all the windows are open. The house will be more efficiently maintained if you close the windows and closing those windows is what hgh represents here.
Yes , I get it, "we've always said hgh is a down the road thought Tread". Very true and for the purposes of gh effect and myscle building etc I'm still of that mindset. Think of this as being a topic I proposed before, "test and estroge". Many many people began running an AI in cycle for uses outside gyno once that was posted and if you look to the cycle threads all writes mostly now include an AI protocol in cycle. Some said well I have good luck without it. My reply was "so you are telling me having better luck is off the tablel? Open your mind is all I am saying. If nascar had said "we have good luck" with the tin cans of the 70's and stopped evolving we we would not have the era we have by which there are an elite few deaths in mgea crashes today. Evoltion will occure whether you go with it or not. This is contreversial and I'm greatful for that. It should he, Tread should not be the final word on jackshit, ever! This is my opinion and put it in one hand and shit in the other and see which one flls quicker. Let me close prior to including the pct benefit by saying. I think this to be maybe 3rd cycle advice, I still beieve its still add one compound at a time test only to start and this is low dose for balance purposes only NOT 5IU'S!!!!!!!!!!!
ALRIGHT NO THE PCT BENEFIT......
What are we doing in pct? Trying to reboot natty test right? How are we doing that? Well, we are trying to use nolva for one to influence or create a "positive feedback" to refire LH. This will then signal and refire nattyy test. Another way that is occurring is though positive feedback loop in the axis becaus the body is still producing natty gh, that never shut down.. so what happens by continuing our 2 iu's ed of hgh in the pct run? We basically double that positive feedback responce to fire natty test. IMO that not onoly conitnues a healtheir cycle and potentially fires you up quciker, it fires you up stronge given the mor gh in the body the more the axis asks for test and the more it asks for. Seems like a no brainer which is another reason I've often even thought of recommending gh just as a pct addition, still I believe the full ride is where the true health is. Realize, this in my mind is a health topic and has little to do with growth of additional muscle, I simply think we have healthier cycles and recovery and I think of this the way I do the an AI , anotuer way to create health and bnefit in the cycle. I will ammend something shortluy, I don't mean to think or have anyone think above that I came up with an AI protocol in cycle, many of us have used hta a long time I just think we have talked about it so much lately it is becoming part of the newer guys cycles as well and happen to think thats agreat thing. I love the fact we can all discuss these things and together turn something into actual protocol for the sake of everyone. Lets debate it, look forward to all reples and all science and opinion because I'm her tol learn just like the 25 yr old that walked in the door this morning wanting his first roll. Its still fun to me, thats the only reason I'm here.