+ 10 sustanon your doing it wrong...
History
The idea behind the creation of sustanon 250 was to develop a blend of esters that a person could inject less frequently, but still feel results quickly and have each of the esters pick up one after another for a longer action of testosterone.
Myths
Now that we know about the esters used in this blend, and how much of each sustanon 250 contains, we can explain how it works in the real world. Many so called forum 'guru's will claim that sustanon 250 should be injected every other day to maintain 'stable blood levels' as they call it. Nevertheless, in reality they are mistaken about the way steroid esters and half lives work.
When you inject sustanon 250 all four esters hit your system at the same time. However, the longer esters are the majority of the blend, and those heavy esters last a long time. Remember, a half life simply means that after that many days only half of what you injected will be leftover, and so on. Therefore, it doesn't just leave the body immediately as some people tend to think.
In this example, out of the 250 mgs total you have 160 mgs made up of 9 and 15 day half lives, which will last weeks after injecting. Hence, it is hard to understand why some people treat sustanon 250 as if it were testosterone propionate, when it only contains 12% of that ester.
Even with these facts you still have the majority of forum guru's claiming that sustanon 250 should be injected every 2 or 3 days, making it seem to be the most common way to run it. However, sustanon 250 should be injected every 11-15 days at a higher dosage, and each ester can peak up one after another to maintain stable blood levels.
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This is true also wiser words were never spoken +
Great response, insight, and visual. Thanks mate
Let me ask you this you might actually know the answer and I've thought about it ever since I did research on N**bido which is test undecanoate. The makers claim and back with studies that it can keep your blood levels stable if you inj e4wks. They say its possible because of the viscosity of the carrier oil slowing down the release of the test undecanoate. If some lab were to brew sust using the same carrier oil do you think that sust could be inj every 4 wks and then keep you even more stable because of the different ester combinations not just the undecanoate?
Sorry to go off topic a little bit but it seems that you might be able to give me some insight into this. I've thought alot about why they didn't use sust as N*ibido instead of just undecanoate.
Thanks to anyone that can answer this question
Also great reply im going to read the ester article you talk about later today im interested
I should mention... everything ive read shows that the pellets are the best option for smooth steady predictable delivery
But im not a big trt head so i dunno for sure
But if we can avoid big pharma advice we would likely be better off!
I agree im not looking to push the n im more interested in having someone brew sust using the same carrier oil and bb mixture to slow all the faster esters in sust down if it would do that. I believe that then sust would be a better compound to run a cycle on.
interesting to say the least
Yes to an extent. So the ester does 1 thing in terms of ester degradation, the oil does another in terms of allowing the oil to dosperse and thereby allow the ester to begib to cleave off, and then a solution of oil and benz b will change bonds a little to reduce the viscosity of the oil which makes its rate of dispersal slow down.
But, for the life of me i cannot see a 4ml injection sitting there like a brick for a week.
A while back i read the ne.....o pamphlet out of curiosity and it struck me they didnt list % of benz b versus oil. So i looked at the patent online.... i think google has it on patents. Anyway it was ambiguous with a lot of permutations and "may cause" etc.
Essentially they patented a %split of bb and caster oil which i think is big pharma bullshido. If you reference the original studies listed, castor oil and bb pharmacokinetics were studies in the 50s or 60s so its old news as is undec.
Strikes me as being like the way a US company patented a strain of corn! Madness.
But yes possible to a small extent to elongate diffusion. But, as Twisted says... unreliable at best
Far as i know blood levels are unsteady regardless with n**ido ive seen nothing but complaints on trt forums... i dunno if its the way drs aee precribing it or what.
The release of these esters are piggy backing off each other maintianing steady blood levels guys are dosing it like they would single ester propinate or phenylpropinate.
only one flaw in that math which is the e11d. wouldn't the dose be 1,177mg? (107edx11)
or is that just a typo and you put in the correct dose? regardless we're going to be looking a rollercoaster, so i'm sure it doesn't matter too much
I double checked it there, the in-graph representation is correct so just a typo thankfully
e11d =1,177mg? (107edx11) which is 141mg 283mg 283mg 471mg prop pp iso decano respectively
nice
well spotted, yes 1,177mg
Ill plug in again!
may be even scarier now that I think about it. could work out though. guess we'll know soon lol
Holy hell! That's a great piece of info. I'm just going off of personal exp but if I pin sust even every 5 days I feel like garbage and start to break out. I keep it at least eod I feel great and don't have the break outs which I assume is from my levels fluctuating dramatically. Thanks for this info!!!
The reality is of course that the images are only guides and sure we all metabolise things differently. But, in the literature where they carried out human studies the calculations for these graphs we ascertained from real people and cover an average. So plus or minus we'd all float somehwere around this
backonroids+1 good visual
Great info!
While this may be true on paper, I think in practice it may work differently for some people. Some people experience a roller coaster effect on sus at cycle doses when injected once or twice a week, yet for trt purposes, you could probably get away with 11-15 days. Now that being said, the pamphlet never really pans out to be real life either. according to the pamphlet you can inject cyp every other week, and undecaonate in castor oil is supposedly good for once every 3 months after your second shot.
In practice however, people that dose cyp twice a week feel much better than those dosing every other week, and I'm sure dosing undecoanate every other week, or even every 3 or 4, would be much better than every 3 months.
Sus was created to be the perfect blend to allow immediate relief and a more user friendly dosing schedule. One ester kicks in as the other is fading away. But I think they missed the mark in practice. It's like putting together a fantasy football team of esters. On paper your team looks unbeatable, then gameday comes and your QB shits the bed and your RB1 exits the game in the 2nd quarter.
solid post as always. I would love if someone tested this out and got bloods taken at sporadic intervals in between doses.
Even in the pic below, those valleys are a little too deep for my taste, though. But a lot of people love sus so + for sparking a conversation. It's crazy that this far down the line we're still just figuring a lot of stuff out.
I for one will just continue to stay away from sus because i'm super anal about steady levels and don't want to risk it. If I want to blend long and short I'll do it my self
Thank you for breaking that down in laymans terms for me haha +
D check out my question above i see that you mentioned it in your response here
So the makers claim that the dosing schedule should be
dose 1
dose 2 6 weeks later (loading phase)
doses 3-infinity every 10-14 weeks
i'm calling horse shit on that, simply because they also say that cyp can be injected every other week. And it sounds absurd.
that being said, this study says differently. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686335/
so i dunno. (halflife determined to be within 21 & 70 days) I wouldn't risk it though and would just do it more often out of sheer paranoia
I actually see test cyp listed as good every 2-4 weeks in the documentation that comes with it from the pharmacy. I was on a 200mg once every 28 days at first. Holy crap that's a bad idea. Seriously. Once a week is much better. I currently dose 85mg 2x a week. At twice a week I feel nothing at all from the shots. I think for trt that's about right. No up, no down, just steady. If you figure the cyp is really good at twice a week instead of once in 4 weeks, maybe that makes this actually good for 1.75 weeks instead of the claimed 14 week max. Easier for me to believe anyway.
I appreciate the link brother
backonroidsThe pamphlet says 1 ml every 3 weeks
https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/28829
Cannot see why anyone would accept the result:
lol I almost posted the same thing from a different calc. +
I knew I had to be quick to beat you lol
;-)
backonroidsFuck thaaaaat! I was waiting for you to jump on
I bet there is a way of figuring out the circadian rhythm of testo and doing a high dose test base pinning schedule to become.... well.... some sort of monster!!
I actually thought about it, but bagged it for 2 reasons. I only have 10 pin points at the moment, and simply don't have the time to figure it out, or be poking 2-3 times a day lol
Maybe some mad scientist could modify an insulin pump to supply test base as needed. Ok. Probably a bad idea.
haha
likewise! although I had a quick look at it there and it seems we'd have tp pin between 5am and 9am
no thanks!
lol yea i'll take a hard pass
You said it at the bottom. Trt is going to be different than a cycle. So are you saying do one shot every 11 or 15 days even if your running say 750 mg?
with a cycle injection frequency would be increased to once or preferably twice a week so there is some over lapping ... just like with cyp its designed for once a week injections you would inject it twice a week.
But i dont see why not do one shot every 11 days have you seen bloods contradicting this ?
backonroidsI would say no , but maybe I'm being closed minded
+1 for a good question
I would say no also. Even when you run prop it takes time to build up levels are not high from the start?
Great post.
Thanks bro have you ran sust for trt yet ?
Good post twisted ive always liked my sustanon for my trt my doc prescribes me cyp but i feel the sust keeps my blood levels more stable! But when im blasting i would pin eod but your post has definatly made me rethink my protocol
backonroidsMate I pin eod even if on Cyp as as you can see from the graph below the line is decreasing .. steady state to me is a straight continuous line straight through the middle . Yes cyp / enanath doesn't need pinning eod but I personally prefer it .
Ok well now i have some very good points in these post so that deginatly gives more to consider when rethinkg my protocol i hate the dips i prefer it nice and steady so im thinkin when bladting that eod is stilk a good choice and whenback down to trt twice a week should be sufficient but to know for sure i will defiantly need to pull bloods
backonroidsYeah mate bloods are always the best option , as I think D from Philly said " everyone reacts differently " but still this is a good post . I'm hoping some of the advance / experts will chip in with their opinions .
Exactly it would be nice to see some of the advance guys opinons and knowledge
Thanks for this discussion and the one on the discussion page. I have plans on using sustanon 250 in January for the 1st time and any more information I can get is going to be very helpful.
backonroidsGood post mate +1
But if it's injected 11days for example , isn't the prop and phenyl prop just going to waste as I imagine it's the shorter esters that would yield the "quick gains " and they won't be getting utilised to there full potential ?
Makes no difference to me I'm just curious ..as i prefer to inject eod as it's the same as my sex pattern haha
No mate cause the prop and iso kicks in fast(er) and gives you a high level already 1-2 days after the injection. You can see it very good on the pic below.
Exactly to understand sust you have to first understand the esters and why they are combined that way
backonroidsAnd don't think I'm being funny with you mate lol it's just sounds that way once I read it back haha I'm just trying to see everyone's thinking in the real world
backonroidsYeah I can see that it's after prop kicking in which is 6 days ..mayBe I'm just being thick but by that 6days the prop has gone leaving you a few days with nothing , then isocap is replacIng it , iscap starts to decrease phenylprop comes into play . I don't see how this is meant to give you quick gains and level blood.
I know there's a graph off google but that means nothing to me to be honest anyone could have made it lol . My real first hand experience has shown me that sustanon is better eod at least . Wasn't it you that had trouble recently with blood levels switching from cyp to sustanon ?
So if I made a cycle proposal now and said this is my below cycle :-
Monday =500mg
60mg Testosterone propionate
120mg Testosterone phenylpropionate
120mg Testosterone isocaproate
200mg Testosterone decanoate
Then in 11 days repeat . Would you say yes mate brilliant cycle ? If I showed you a graph off google ? Or would you start looking at the esters individually and think there isn't a steady mg throughout the 11days so bloods will not be stable ?
I'm not being funny just trying to see the true logic behind it all rather Than jumping straight on board and saying sustanon should be ran every 11 days .