Should I or Shouldn't I?
I'm seriously debating on trying to get on TRT. Why you ask? Well, granted I only had one cycle under my belt but I felt amazing.I felt so good that I truly believed I didn't need antidepressants so I screwed myself all up cutting doses way down. PCT was an absolute bitch because of this.
Since PCT, I've had regular blood tests and it seems my baseline is low 400's for T levels. Not quite below normal but to me, that seems low for someone my age. I believe I am fully recovered. I feel exactly how I did before my cycle. Decent. Moody. Depressed/lack of motivation. So-so libido. Once a week type of urge, sometimes not even. I have no intention of stopping cycling anytime soon. I feel ten times better on cycle in every aspect of my life. I'll be 38 in November so the way I see it is why put off the inevitable if I'm going to continue to do this. I'm fine with pinning the rest of my life. I've been through opiate addiction. I've never been the same person as I was before that....until I went on cycle. I felt like the old me came out to play for a little while.
There is ONLY ONE reason why I do not want to start. My wife and I want another kid. I don't want to ruin my chances but frankly, my wife is battling some health issues with her weight and we are not going to have a kid until she gets things under control so who knows when that will be. I might be 50 at this rate.
Another thought I had was asking my pysciatrist (gives me anti-depressants) if she has ever tried TRT for depression. To be honest, I think she would do it but she obviously isn't an endo so my levels would not be monitored until she refers me to an endo. Explains why she is prescribing it and the endo just monitors and adjusts as needed.
So, I'm looking for level headed people to give me feedback. Am I nuts for thinking this? Would any doc even consider TRT if levels are not below the "normal" range? Lets face it, I could get my levels down below 300 pretty easy if I needed to. I don't want to have to do that though. No bashing please. It took me a while to get up the courage to even post this. It's just an honest thought. Looking for some honest unbias advice.
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I've been talking to my doctor about trt and I'm only 27 my test levels are 76 so he has no problem talking about it being an option. But I'm not trying to having anymore kids
Talk to your endo. Some people on trt are able to have children with an hcg blast. I was in the same position you are in (low, but not low enough) so I just waited until I came off a cycle, told the doctor what was up, he was cool with it and we got some numbers low enough to work with. I had the same concern about being sterile that you do, but because my levels were low due to artificial suppression rather than trauma/cancer/age etc, he seemed very confident that they could be raised and testes made potent again temporarily with enough hcg use.
You told your doc you cycle? I honestly want to but everyone seems to advise against it.
You can get a feel for your doctor. Some will be ok, some will flame you, some will kick you out. For some, "i used to use steroids and learned my lesson" could be an option. The truth is, if you are using something he isnt prescribing and you get total HRT bloods done, he is most likely gunna know anyway, and then hes gunna be mad you didnt tell him/lied to him.
You know your doctor: I got a good feel for mine and was comfortable telling him i still bump up exogenous hormones a few times a year.
The antidepressants are probably affecting your libido, this is often common place for a majority. The bad part is, you probably need them. I've been on TRT for years and got my girl pregnant on a blast cycle of 125mgs of tren ace, 75mgs of test prop, and 100mg var finisher everyday pins, so don't believe the hype, it may happen to some, but not the majority. Matter of fact HCG will be your bff on TRT, trust me! If you really want to get on TRT remember a couple of doses of tren ace and you'll be shut down and below normal range= TRT for life if you want to go that route. THIS IS SHEARLY MY EXPERIENCE, TRT+Vibrid=a happy boy!!!
I just wanted to share my experience with depression and TRT.
I was taking an antidepressant and an anti inflammatory for osteo arthritis when I began TRT. After the test kicked in I really thought I could stop them. I did and felt ok for a couple of weeks, but the depression came back.
This was with a very large "blast" dose of test
I wouldn't start TRT if you're doing it only to drop the antidepressant as it may not work.
Thanks for the insight. I really do appreciate it!
My entire reasoning is not for the antidepressants but it is a strong swaying factor. In an overall sense of well being, I feel even at 37, (just about 38 years old) , my baseline levels could be higher. Libido improvement instead of a 1 once a week (if that) type of urge. Calmer. More focused. More energy/stamina. I don't feel dead by early afternoon. I still love me some naps still but life just feels better.
If it turns out I still need them then so be it but either way, Feeling better is worth the try to me. I'm not worried about the commitment aspect. It's no different than having to take my friggen pills every day. twice a day.
But you are still left with the whole pregnancy issue. My understanding is that the longer you are on TRT, the longer it will take and the less likely you are to succeed in getting natural production up and running again--so if you really want another child you should do a whole lot of reading and investigating before starting TRT.
Yeah that part is what makes me hesitant. I've done a ton of research on it and it seems possible. I've even seen people get their girls pregnant while on cycle. I would use HCG and if needed, I would come off TRT.
In all honesty, if we don't have a kid in the next year or so, I'm not sure I'd want another kid. Being over 50 with a ten year old doesn't sit well with me. lol
You could try hcg. 500 - 700 IU two times per week should bring you up to the 700 range. If you use adex (0.5 mg 1 or 2 times per week) and keep estradiol in the the 20-30 pg/ml range, then you wont shut down FSH and will continue to produce sperm.
When you have your last child then lower hcg slightly and add 200-300 mg of testosterone cypionate per week and adjust adex accordingly.
Do whatever you think is better for your family. In my case it was night and day. My test was at 186 when I decided to go on TRT. I went from being tired, angry, moody, etc to feeling like I was 19 again and banging my wife every time I get her away from the kids. It's made such a HUGE difference in not only my life but my families as well. Just the other day my wife said she would kill me if I stopped. Haha.
Talk it over with your wife. Write out the pros/cons and go over them together. Sounds silly but anytime I have to make a hard decision I do this. It makes it much easier when you have facts staring you in the face.
Very good advice on how to approach this with pros/cons
ALWAYS let the wifey or close ones know if it can affect them too.. I find this always results in them supporting me and makes life that much easier
QtripsGreat change man. Always happy for someone who's gotten their life changed by trt!
Thanks. I don't necessarily think me being on TRT is best for my family. However, seeing that I'm a different person I think that ultimately translates into a better family situation. I'm usually tired, I'll drink a 5 hour energy or some other pick me up and I could still fall asleep. I can never stay asleep though. Moody is a def. I tend to crawl in a shell and not talk much. When I was on cycle, my confidence was through the roof. I walked with my head held high. And without question the sex life was a lot better! When I told my wife about the second cycle plans she said "so I get to look forward to more sex again" LOL
Pro/con list is a good idea. I don't normally do it but my wife and I recently made a life long and that is how we approached it.
Def. appreciate the input from everyone!
Hey im glad it worked out for you and your family. I have a quick question, is it possible for your body to adapt to the TRT and its effects wear off? I heard this and would like to no if its true or not, and how a TRT patient would tackle this. Do you know? Thanks gargoyle
I would imagine our bodies will build some sort of tolerance to it but when that happens I would think any good doctor would adjust as needed.
I've never had luck with doctors, especially when they see on my record I was/am (always will be). I don't want to have to see 100 doctors to resolve this. This is why I plan on talking with my psychiatrist. Part of me wants to tell her how I know test changed me...aka , tell her I cycled.
Ye there are ALOT of doctors out there who are anti TRT and will turn us down, iv seen 3 doctors so far and they all said im fine, but i know 385ng/dl isnt fine especially for a 22yo. So these dictors can be very stubborn and its going to take a long time to find one with some actual sense on TRT.
Do you think a psychiatrist would be able to help you get on TRT? Because i've had two before and they just put it on depression and anxiety.
Doctors avoid giving trt to younger guys like the plague.. even if it is low for your age in their eyes it's decent for any one else.. they're very stubborn this way
Very good point, i must admit this is the impression the doctors iv seen has given to me. But that leaves me with one option and doing trt on my own, which sucks its expensive and could bring more dangers.
Actually what i was thinking of, was getting the doctor to do more bloods done and before getting the bloods done, manipulate the results by lowering my Testosterone. Eg, not sleeping the night before. You think it would make much difference to the results?
There's a ton of ways to lower natty test.. it jumps up and down already if you're natty.. lack of sleep could do that.. unless you have good insurance buying your own test through sources is cheaper tbh.. they'll try to charge you an arm and a leg for just a vial of test..
Qtrips^^This. Managing the sex hormones is very doable by yourself.
I'm not sure but I've read that they can do it. It would be ideal if she refers me to an endo, explains she wants to prescribe it for my symptoms but wants the endo to monitor blood work. To be honest, if I do go the endo right. I'll probably just make sure my levels are low enough since if they are where I am now they won't do TRT. They don't care if I feel better, they are too worried about covering their own ass.
QtripsDepending on where you guys live, I could tell you good trt docs near there.
I would be interested in that FR sent thanks brother
QtripsAccepted. Let me know.
FR sent. and how do you know all this. lol
QtripsAccepted. Went doc shopping for years, knowing what was wrong with me while every doc thought I was fine. Then I took a deep breath, realized I couldn't take it no more and chucked down the cash to see a renowned doc. Still though, everything's not pretty and perfect, but at least I get what I need (scripts and bloodwork.) If I could go back though, having the knowledge that I do today and also having the ability to get any medicine I want/need, I wouldn't have wasted my time with docs.
Vewi" My wife and I want another kid. "
Clomid(U can by) -Clomiphene works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone. However, we all know that that use AAS. However what else does study’s show on how it affects men. Clomid has been used from urologist to give men 30mg daily to increase both sperm count and motility—motility is the ability of sperm to move properly towards an egg. So this means taking Clomid daily at 30mg can for some people(cause we are all different) increase sperm count and its motility.
HCG (U can by) —Both of these are very important—However, can convert to estrogen (a small dose of an AI evr 3 day or so well keep that in check) HCG for men that have hypothalamic or pituitary malfunction, can take HCG 2 times a week for 6months to increase testis size so they are at their peak and producing test.
HMG(Doctor)--Now comes the HMG(Human menopausal Gonadotropin) this you have to ask your doctor. I have not been able to find this anywhere. HMG are natural hormones necessary for human reproduction Each vial of menotropin contains equal amounts of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH). HMG also treat infertility in men with hypo- or normagonadotropic hypogonadism and may be used in combination with hCG to stimulate spermatogenesis. (talk urologist—no I did not take HMG)
Nolvadex(U can By)- increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone. And also helps block estrogen. However, it helps your body increase your sperm count because of that. In fact the bad thing about Nolvadex unlike Clomid is that it doesn’t on its own increase sperm count or their motility. However, you still needed it because it does increase your LH and FSH which we need for healthy testis.
GnRH(U can by)-- stimulates the biosynthesis of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) that in turn initiate both intra-gonadal testosterone production and spermatogenesis as well as systemic testosterone secretion and virilization. The blood flow brings GnRH into the anterior pituitary where endocrine cells synthesize and produce FSH and LH. Again this will increase sperm count, also in some studies motility(motility is the ability of sperm to move properly towards an egg) has been seen.
Vitamin E(you can buy)--- vitamin E supplements or changing your diet to incorporate foods rich in vitamin E, like sunflower seeds, nuts, turnip greens and tomatoes, can help improve the quality of your sperm. Both in Sperm Motility and Sperm Count---400 mg of vitamin E in conjunction with 225 mcg of selenium(you can buy) in studies have shown improvements in sperm motility.
Here is what I did during all 3 times trying to have kids. I started 30 days before trying to get my body going and getting tested(about every 15days) to see were levels were to adjust were I thought I needed too (This can be ran up to 6 months) once I knew my levels were improved, we started trying about 30 daya later we were PG. It took about 45 days to adjust my cycle but here it is.
Clomid 30mg ED
Nova 20mg ED
HCG 250iu a week
Vitemin E--400 mg of vitamin E /225 mcg of selenium ED I was over the 400mg of E because of diet.
GnRH- The recommended dose.
By day 45 my sperm count was the highest it’s been and my motility, some of my guys were still on the short bus but the doctor saw a 43% increase from where I was before.
You use be related to zewi whom from what I've read knows his shit. Thanks bro this is encouraging.
I don't even know where to begin to ask my doctor about all this oh hey doc, I ran a cycle I felt great, I want more. Lol. Or book an appt when I know my levels will be below 350 (after next cycle). I was considering not doing pct next run. This way I could run a small dose and stop it before the appt. I'm def going to talk to my psychiatrist because I feel more comfy with her
Vewiyeah related to Zewi.. you could say that..lol
What i recommend for us considering TRT is there is a guy on utube called "lowtguy" he has a fairly reputable forum for people who are TRT patients and they all have different lengths of experience im sure if you go and speak with them they can help you out. (Thats if you dont get all your answers here)
http://lowt.gy/forum/viewforum.php?id=3
This is the link to the forum, very helpful people for TRT just like here
I'll check it out, thanks bro!
Im also gonna be 38 in january the doc tested me months ago and offered to put me on TRT.He said i was a little low and that might be the cause of my lack of motivation and slight depression..I explained how i felt while on a cycle of test and its like night and day..I wont go into cycle history just because im no beginner but still learning LOTS..Just ending a strong mass cycle and still havent made the decision to go on TRT yet..Their are lots of factors that come into play when deciding this for me.High cholesterol and early heart disease.How will i feel 5yrs from now? What are the long term risks? I also would like some more experienced advice from ACTUAL TRT PEOPLE...
QtripsHaving low testosterone will actually raise your total cholesterol and ldl, while lowering hdl. I've seen it for myself on my own bloodwork. You could find this is true by a quick search on google if you need reaffirmation.
Did not know that..Thanks for the info
QtripsAlso, heart disease is more likely with low T. Good T lowers your risk.
QtripsHey guys, there are countless stories of dudes knocking up their wives on trt, but you've gotta be on HCG to do so. And then, even add some clomid in there and there's a very good chance you'll get her preggo. Do not be scared of being infertile on trt IF you're on HCG also. I'm terrified to not wear a condom, and I'm on trt, with HCG. Trust me, with HCG the balls are still working and manufacturing the swimmers.
That makes me feel ALOT better thanks
Dude im in your same shoes my levels are at 385 but im 22yo!!!! I talked to an endo and he was waaay against trt for my age, but age shouldn't be a factor, i feel like shit i need help!!
So yes i no EXACTLY what your talking about, its all im thinking about at the moment i just want to get on trt but i know i will never have children of my own further down the line. Its an extremely hard decision an something iv been thinking about for around 3months.
You just have to think about the pros and cons and make a decision after thinking about it for a while. It isnt a decision to be made overnight.
I'm pretty sure you can still have kids with TRT but it's a crapshoot. I could always freeze some of my man juice I guess but it scares me. I want my daughter to have a sibling and I would love another little rugrat running around.
Def. confused. I hope we can both work it out. This ties into my post a week ago about difference of level between 400 and 700.
If you can still have kids on trt then that definetly takes out the major con of TRT. Ye man keep me posted im definitely interested in what you do next.
hcg and clomid =]
aylmejorHonestly I think you should go for it bro. I mean 38 is not old.. But that with cycling I think it's a good idea to stay on a try dose between. My personally I would much rather be on some test then antidepressents any day. Many ppl still have kids while on ppl that have been on years straight have had kids, not saying it will be same for you. But you never know. Good lick
I agree, I can't stand being on anti-depressants. Now even more so than ever. When I played with my dose and hit pct I felt great but then as the test started declining, I became a walking emotional mess. I know part of it was the nature of PCT but this was brutal. Within days of me realizing what was happening, I brought my dose back to normal and I was feeling none of those symptoms again. I then realized how dependent I am on them. They worked better years ago. I don't want to play the game of changing meds/dealing with sides, finding the right dose. At least with test it's one med. Right now I'm on a combo and I feel like my next step is to max my dose out and I don't want that.
PCT is always a bitch for those already prone to depression =[ I'm not saying I'm for you jumping on TRT for this reason but I do not blame you one bit.. It's brutal already having depression then going to no natty test during pct
I hear ya but it's more than the pct thing. I can deal with a short term thing but to feel half of what I think I should feel like is defeating sometimes. That is basically a permanent type of feeling once the PCT part ends. So basically I go into PCT feeling at absolute worst, then after I feel better, but not good/great. So I'm always running in the middle of the road. I feel like I'm short changing myself and I have been for years.
Oh no I understand.. You come out of something brutal from pct and you don't even feel like you've made it to the finish line.. just not 100% .. You're an educated adult and it's not like you're some 16 year old kid.. If this really makes your quality of life better then why not? You've already got a kid as well.. not that you shouldn't be able to have more down the road