+ 1 Sup. Desperate Need of Help - 33 on TRT
Hey all. I'm Kyle. I've been following some creators online who talk about TRT for years and I've always felt low. Last year I got checked out and ran bloods, and my results came back with a 187 total. Yikes. So I signed up with the TRT Clinic and they chucked me on the standard bullshit. 200mg test C 2x/week. Anastrozole once every 2 weeks. HCG once a week. Worked fine for getting my T up, but me estradiol has been wild as well in the upper 80s. Basically I've been getting better with the increases to my testosterone, but the estrogen increase has also been a real bitch.
Anyways, I've been trying to research where I can get my scripts for cheaper. This clinic charges me $300/mo in order to get this stuff, and it's super frustrating because I feel like I'm on the most generic therapy there could be. I now take 125mg of Test C twice a week, however I am being swapped over to taking Test E 4x/week with smaller doses to see if that brings my estradiol down, as well as now taking my Anastrozole once every 3 days.
I have no idea if this change is going to really get me where I need to be, but I have a call with another clinic today to see if my costs could come down for the same therapy or better therapy. I need this stuff to have normal levels, so it's not something I wanna mess around with.
I used to be in super good shape at around 220lbs about 10 years ago when I was doing personal training as a job. These days are a lot different with being a software engineer, a father, and dealing with a super toxic baby momma.
Anyways... I am glad someone suggested this forum and I wonder what will come of this.
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NoodlesSubQHey Kyle, welcome to the board, I’m new here too but I’ve been reading about AAS for a long time (lurker for years).
125mg 2x a week, on top of HCG and an AI is a LOT for trt, and sounds a lot more like a mild cycle.
If your doctor okayed you for TRT, and you’re comfortable getting your own blood work, the regular dose would be closer to 75-150mg a week total. You can split that up and do twice a week, and your levels will be more even.
Have you had blood work done at your current dose? I would expect you to be well above reference at 125 2x a week.
Yep. My last bloods drawn about 2 weeks ago showed a 950 total, and still sitting at 82ng/dl for estradiol. It's clear that I'm pushing the limits of natural test levels, and I need to switch to lower doses done more frequently in order to cut the chance for estradiol to continue being so high. It's made weight loss so hard.
Damn, their suggestion to regulate your estrogen was more frequently pinning a lower dose??? Unless they prescribed you Test Prop, suspension, or Sustanon, they are out of their fking minds!!!! That’s a lot of test. The every three day Arimadex and once per week HCG is ridiculous. Save the HCG for your PCT, and only use the Arimadex if you get any high estrogen symptoms. Arimadex is strong as hell, I love it, but definitely not on a regular basis. If I were you, I would run the hell away from that clinic. You can use any source in the top ten of this home page to get quality test. Although, first, get to your regular doctor, or even an urgent care and let them run bloodwork to check your levels. They could have really fucked you up keeping you on those doses for a year without a break. When I first went on TRT eleven years ago, the cut me off in between 4-6 months and told me my levels were great and to come back if I started feeling low t symptoms again. Needless to say, I found the dark side and never looked back. You definitely found the right site for good advice though. You may want to just come off everything for a little while and let your body regulate a little. A REAL doctor visit would be my my best advice though. Got to make sure you’re healthy before moving forward.
I have thankfully decided to schedule with a regular doc for March 8th to get this all figured out. I am requesting my blood work from the clinic so I can show the doc I was hypogonadic when I started, because I most certainly cannot and will not go back to being entirely on my own....That was awful and I was so lethargic and beat down.
Super appreciate your post and advice here.
I understand you not wanting to come off, as I am definitely guilty of that myself. Although, I’ve learned on eroids that coming off for a certain amount of time with a good PCT can give you much better results, and is definitely a healthier alternative. I’ve been off for a month now, and chomping at the bit to get back on, but I have to say that I feel amazing. Haven’t slowed down yet. Planning a cutting cycle for March 1st though, but I think I definitely needed this break. From what I’ve recently learned, my break should be twice as long, but I’ve never been the best listener, and not about to start now, although, I’m definitely a BETTER listener than usual
What's a healthy PCT? Is that somewhere pinned on the forum? Would love to come off a bit to ease my estrogens down and level out a bit.
Check the link below, PCT amongst other important info is thoroughly detailed there ...
https://www.eroids.com/comment/4057020
Great post! Thank you
TRT should mimic normal physiological levels. If there are not overweight or some medical exceptions which I guess there aren’t in your case then your dose is simply too high.
100mg a week puts me right at top end of reference range so your 250mg would be a great blast for me.
Get blood work and you will see that your hormones are most likely too high for a TRT.
250 a week certainly seems like a lot. I mean it shot me up from 187 total to hitting the 1100's in ng/dl....so I think I'm well above the reference range for most places.
I'm almost vengeful of this clinic at this point and I wish I could do something like file a suit against them for malpractice, because this shit could easily kill someone. They're not being careful at all and some of the girls there who just handle front desk and generic shit openly talk shit about how little some of the docs know. The chiropractor who co-owns the clinic was described as "A piece of shit who knows nothing about TRT" and drives his pretty little BMW i8 to work.
Most Dr's don't really know much about TRT, a lot of Chiros are just looking to make that quick buck and it's an easy market to target.
They ruin people's HPTA then they have them hooked for life.
Who says you can't, I bet you could find an attorney that won't charge you up front but would be willing to share in the settlement.
You've got me thinking, Greg!
You are running a cycle and not TRT. hence your high estro. An actual TRT dose will keep your estro in range without AI since all hormones will balance out naturally. TRT clinics are in it for your wallet not health. the more shit and higher doses they put you on the more money they make. Get to a real doc who will actually care for you.
Thanks for this, Makwa. I really appreciate the insight. I certainly don't feel like I'm running a cycle, because my body isn't recomping anywhere near what it should be for the deficit and workouts I'm running.
I have been eating around 1500 calories, many of which are protein and cleaner choices with meat, a veggie, and no added fats outside of cooking with butter/coconut oil.
By my understanding as 6 years of personal training, I should be dropping fat like a mother fucker right now, and instead I'm just stagnant, sitting at 31% BF according to the last Inbody Scan I did in december.
I've lost weight before going from 350 to 215 back 10 years ago and I was not on anything (Felt low T even then), and none of those strategies are working today while on TRT.
I'm stronger, and I recover decently, but I expected better recomp with this.
Only 1500 cals has put your body into what we call starvation mode. Your body senses calories are way to low so it slows down metabolism to preserve fat. Your diet is messed up. Adding steroids will not fix that and make you lose more weight. They are not weight loss drugs. Fix the diet and you wll lose the weight. You need to do a couple day refeed of 1000+ cals above your TDEE and then drop to 500 cals below your TDEE and weight should be peeling off like crazy starting at 31% BF.
NoodlesSubQRespectfully, starvation mode isn’t a real thing, and beside maybe the last part where you said 500 cal deficit, this is wrong.
If he’s 300 lbs, then his TDEE is likely close to 4000 calories, and a 1000 cal deficit would be fine. No one beats the laws of physics
Why don't you fill us in then with all your infinite wisdom.
NoodlesSubQDownvoting someone new to the fourm who disagrees with you, thats great, i'm not gonna do the same to you.
His TDEE 6' 295lbs. It comes to ~3600 calories a day, meaning 2600 cal as a cut. at moderate levels of exercise. Does starvation mode exist. Yes. Will 2600 calories a day cause it, I doubt this majorly.
Steroids would probably help him lose weight, although they probably shouldn't be used that way. A test cycle like his doc has him on is probably gonna cause him to gain weight in the form of water, at least temporarily.
Please educate me on the refeeding portion, it's my understanding that calorie deficits need to be maintained over time (3500 cal=1lb fat so 500cal deficit/day = 1lb/week lost) in order to work.
I will agree that 1500 cal a day is ridiculous though, nearly anyone eating that little will starve, and it wasn't what I was advocating for.
I can tell you from experience makwa is right. In Sept when I started I was taking in about 1300 calories. Dropped some weight the first 2 months and then the next 2 months nothing happened. Mak suggested I up my cals to at least 2500 and two months later my abs are starting to show. Sometimes we have to eat more to lose more
Dude thank you for your caring responses. I feel overwhelmed with positive emotions reading the responses you and others are leaving here. Completely unexpected.
I thought for sure I could just expedite my results by fasting and eating substantially lest since I was taking exogenous hormones.
I'll begin a refeed today and then do as you stated.
Is it safe to use Cronometer's judgement for TDEE and caloric goals? I use them to track and put in 2lbs/week as a goal. My TDEE seems crazy high, and my Oura ring even tells me I burn 3300 calories most days.
3300 seems about right for your stats. Trust your Oura and track calories.
Hey. Thanks a ton for your responses on my post. I really appreciate that. I had a question for you.
As I eat to refeed, then go back to just 500 under my maintenance, will my estradiol being so incredibly high in the 80's be a blocker for me to rip body fat off and recomp? I'm really wondering why with all my exercise, focus on sleep and hydration, shouldn't I be dropping like mad?
Yes sir. Will do Gains Lord!
you most certainly were on a cycle. 400mg a week from a "clinic". Sounds like you went to one of the places that just prescribe shit for the money. Because they're a "clinic" why would you question it. How long did you run that high? Because you shit may be kinda fucked.
Read what's talked about here in a recent thread about losing weight.
https://www.eroids.com/forums/newbie-corner/beginners-cycles/fat-burners
I was on 200mg 2x/week for 6 months. Then they swapped me to 125mg 2x/week after I hit about 1100 total T in bloods. My Estradiol was in the high 80s, however...
I bet you're entirely right that my shit might be fucked...which is why I'm so pissed at these people
400mg a week for 6 months, your total should have been much higher than 1100. I run 165 a week and my recent total was 1373. Something is off with that picture. Now you're on 250mg a week. That's still cycle territory, though a low one. I'd drop to 125 a week. Get a full panel bloods done. Because you ran so high for so long, you shot your shit. Everyone is different. Some people can tolerate higher E2 some can't. As you say you weren't showing sides. With high dose of AI per week. Man I'd definitely see a doctor. Drop the AI and hcg. I would look at one of the top 10 sources here for some gear. I personally don't trust these "clinics". If you're worried about doctors and being honest. There are numerous labs to get bloods done. Post them here if you're not feeling confident about reading them. There are plenty of users here than can help.
Thank you very much for the advice, man. I'm gonna begin doing what y'all suggested with not only refeeding my body because I've been starving myself, but also I will stop the AI, reduce the total T that I'm injecting (especially since I just got sent new vials of Test E and can choose how much to inject as well as the frequency), and just eaaaaaase on back.
I have a 200mg 5ml vial of test E. What would even be safe to ease off on?
NoodlesSubQYou’d be happy going to 50-75mg twice a week. Once a week at 100-150mg is also okay but I prefer twice.
Look into subQ injections, they’re much better imho and you can use a 27-29 gauge 1/2-5/8ths needle instead. So much less pain!
I just used those smaller needles to do my injection and it was painless. Way nicer than those 1 inch needles that are whoppers
As said that dose seems like it would put you above a trt level. Have you have your levels checked while on? Go to your doc and ditch the trt clinic. I pay roughly 10$ a month from the grocery store pharmacy for my trt dosage. 300$ a month is outrageous
I scheduled an appointment with a PCP and will hopefully get referred downstairs to their Endocrinology dpt, where there's plenty of folks who can set me up with actual therapy. I look forward to having this entire thing go through the doc and then endocrinologist, because then everything is covered by insurance and I can get proper care.
drop the hcg
get blood work
125mg 2x a week is not a trt dose IMO to high but thats up to you
Hope you can find some help on here the boys are supportive.
TricepatopsAfter on TRT for a year or more you really do need HCG or your pregnenolone and DHEA levels will tank. Mine went to zero. You can either take HCG to normalize them or take the supplement from of those.
What would be a TRT dose in your opinion?
It says your 6ft and 295 with above 20 % bf that could also be a major factor in your conversion to estrogen.
Change diet
cardio
ditch the clinic
this forum and the members on here have a treasure trove of knowledge.
I was thinking he probably should drop the hcg to get his e2 score accurate from just running test and Tricepatops was saying 125 to about 180 is what i was thinking but I would grab bloods at the dose and get yourself at the top of the reference range and then pin smaller doses more frequently even daily theres alot you can do man.
Tricepatops125mg to 175 mgs depending on the person should put most people in the top of the reference range. I have some old Quest blood that had the levels of test in normal range go up to 1100 but the newest test from them has the test almost to 900. Only reason I remember is my hospital had ranges different from Quest and now they are about the same
TricepatopsIt depends on how your body uses it some can use only125mgs a week others up to 175mgs a week. That is the total dose in a week but you can split them up into 2 doses say 90 and 85 if doing 175. With that dose you shouldn't need an AI unless really sensitive.
Also TRT clinics are for profit mainly why not try to go to your doc and let him know your on trt but don't like how they are prescribing it to you and see if your doctor will. Or try an endo doc.