+ 1 TRT/Cruise dose that retains gains, while minimizing lower back pumps for cardio
I wasn't sure if this belonged in the TRT forum, cycle forum, so I just went General here. Also, I know this is a super common question, but figured I'd ask given my specific situation.
Late 40s avid gym goer, but also a passionate rec tennis player. Currently on endocrinologist prescribed TRT (160 mg, but I take 200), with 6 month bloodwork he checks, and I have to make sure that I balance my blasts around this bloodwork (he would yank my prescription if he knew).
When I blast, I find something in the ranges of 500-800 test, 400-450 NPP/deca, and either primo (400) or EQ (600-900) for estrogen management, really are my sweet spot. Yes it's a lot of gear, but I really just don't see responses at lower doses. During those blasts, I feel amazing, 3d look that just fills out so much I need a different wardrobe, lifts go up fast, and I get noticed and complimented by both family and strangers.
But, I simply cannot play tennis, at all. The lower back pumps are totally debilitating, I can't move or play at my level, to the point it's embarrassing that someone looking like me moves that poorly. So, I now run my blasts seasonally, during the tennis off-season.
I'm transitioning out of my blast, down to TRT doses, in prep for my endo appt and bloodwork - and, the beginning of the tennis season. Once all clear (and only if all clear), I'd like to run a "TRT+" or cruise (I'm not hung up on semantics) of some sort, because I find I really do look and feel flat when off-cycle. Yes, I have gained tissue year over year with these cycles, which at my age is already amazing. But I would like to retain a bit of that nitrogen retention/3d look, but also, be able to engage in high level cardio (tennis) without those debilitating pumps.
I know it's the 400 mg nandrolone that causes the lower back pumps. My first ever cycle was test/primo, and I had no issues (but didn't gain much without the nandrolone). The nandrolone is a staple for me now, it really helps my joints, and I'm convinced gives additional size to the muscles.
I know I'll get 50 different stack recommendations here, but I'd love to hear some feedback on what everyone's preferred cruise/TRT+ is, when cardio is a major goal.
I'm pondering, either 6 months of
1) 200 test, 50-100 nandrolone, 100 EQ (probably too low a dose of EQ for any actual effectiveness?)
2) 200 test, 50-100 nandrolone, 100 primo (I have a bunch saved for next cycle, but I can use for this instead)
3) simply higher test? I worry the lack of EQ/primo for E2 management would complicate things.
4) any other combos the collective wisdom here can share!
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Taurine.....and cycle year round will shorten your expectancy
You will think I'm talking shit here, but I use to be a very keen tennis player when I was around 10 to 16 years old and represented the North of England a few times in the Juniors. Use to be in the LTA rankings and do a lot of those tournaments over here too travelling the country lol Seems like a world away now from what I do!! Was the best player in my High School at one point, always went down to watch Wimbledon each year getting tickets through my local town tennis club as you couldn't buy them directly then. Only reason I quit was because I fell in love with lifting weights and found that the 2 hobbies clashed with each other - the whipping action of swinging a tennis racket especially when serving wrecked havoc on my right shoulder so I went with the weights as I wanted the women at the time LMFAO!!! I have no idea what its like playing when using steroids so can't offer any advice, I do know I never get back pumps from NPP though just DBol.
Ah hah dude that's awesome! I hope you come back to the sport one day, it's been shown to offer the longest improvement in longevity compared to all other sports - I think it was like 7 or 8 years.
And you're totally right though - they do clash. Prior to getting passionate about weightlifting, my racket arm and pec were bigger than the other side. Now, they are the smaller side! I think it may be related to fast/slow twitch fibers, but that's just a guess. But yes, whipping that arm is counterproductive to growing muscle at the scale we aim for with AAS.
I was toying with the idea of using cardarine to offset the back pumps - Ryan Russo suggested it in one of his vlogs. But I'd prefer to keep the polypharmacy to a minimum.
Are you pondering what I'm pondering pinky??
Pinky clearly has gone through skull enlargement from GH use.
Mast + GH permanently every phase every cycle bread and butter also proviron if you got the money is nice a ad on if money no concern, your dosages aren’t high pretty standard but food what’s gonna lay down the mass end of day.
Honestly, man, if cardio performance is a big priority during tennis season, I’d personally lean toward keeping it simple with test + mast for your cruise/TRT+ phase. Lower back pumps are heavily linked to 19-nors (NPP/deca, even tren), so if you want to stay mobile and explosive, pulling them way down … or even out …makes a big difference.
For me, something like 200mg test + 200mg mast per week has been the sweet spot. Mast keeps me feeling “on,” gives that harder/denser look, and also helps control estrogen naturally … so I don’t need to lean on EQ or primo just for E2 management. The 3D look is still there, but without the debilitating pumps that kill my conditioning.
About nandrolone, yeah, I know it helps joints and fullness, but personally I wouldn’t run it 6 months straight. There’s some data suggesting long-term 19-nor exposure may impact dopamine pathways and overall neurological balance. Not saying it wrecks you overnight, but cruising on it for months and months might not be the smartest move, especially if you’re already stacking high PED loads during blasts. If you really want it in there for joint comfort, you could keep it very low (50mg tops) just for the lube effect … but otherwise, I’d save the higher doses for your off-season blasts.
Bloodwork should guide everything, especially since you’re balancing this with your endo’s TRT protocol. I’m actually doing my labs in 4 weeks, and I’ll tweak things based on where my markers land. If you want to retain muscle, stay athletic, and keep recovery smooth between blasts, test + mast is a very solid middle ground that won’t crush your cardio or mobility. GH would help you specially regarding your recovery, consider adding some on your protocol. I am running 5iu daily for 6 months now, and im felling great. Hope you the best. Good luck !
agreed on not running nandrolone that long. Aside from the potential neurotoxicity, there’s the cardio toxicity as well. Which in rodent models begins very rapidly. Best to minimize the length of exposure.
200 test 200 mast is also my typical cruise dosage..has always made my blood markers fall right back in place..personally I pin 4iu daily GH and feel great..I agree on GH being another staple you can utilize
Right on - Test/Mast seems to be a winner, somehow I never came across this elsewhere
I appreciate the thoughtful response!
Sounding like mast is something I’ve overlooked here.
Totally agree about long term nandrolone. Was thinking 100 is safe but you’re right, why not drop to 50 or even remove entirely. I guess I would worry the mast might cause some dryness, the nandrolone would help balance.
GH is the missing piece of the puzzle here if you want to maintain that full 3d look all the time. No amount of gear will give you the 3d look like GH. And for some reason you can carry a lot more muscle on low doses of anabolics when on GH. GH has so many other benefits too, especially at your age when you aren’t producing much anymore. 3-4ius With your 150 or 200mg of test should get you looking right.
Regarding your blasts and running so much gear, I don’t think you’re eating enough and you’re trying to over compensate with more gear. 185lbs at nearly 6ft says I don’t eat enough to me. There’s no reason you need anywhere near those doses at 6ft 185 at 15% bf.
Also - totally forgot to mention - this last blast was also my first incorporation of HGH. So I'll keep running it this TRT/cruise/whatever we call it.
It's a great point - you're right.
GH is the kind of thing you want to run long term. It has some immediate effects on recovery, fullness, fat loss etc, but the muscle building aspect takes time. The effects of hyperplasia and the resulting new muscle cells showed a couple years later for me. Spot inject IM into the muscles you trained that day, minimum of 2ius. It causes a localized release of MGF (IGF-1E C). Max of 4ius before bed due to the ceiling MGF release while you sleep. But higher doses can be taken during the day.,
Fascinating! I've just been running it subq before bed, 3+ hrs since my last meal.
So on like, chest day, I should spot inject each pec with 2IU before bed? Or immediately post workout? Ditto for lats on shoulders, etc etc?
I haven't researched MGF like other compounds, it felt a bit too exotic to me. But if HGH can leverage that pathway...
I gotta update that sorry - I'm 205 at the moment and visible abs (no clue bf%) and when blasting can reach up to 225. Calories are easily 3000 per day. Always room for more though, you're right.
Number 2, but switch the primo out for masteron. You’ll get e2 protection and very very mild anabolism, that low of primo and you’re just wasting money. What you’ve been doing are pretty hefty dosages for casual gym performance, if you were to bump those dosages up just a little bit you’d be looking at a pretty serious cycle. Personally I’d go the other direction, #2. Add an oral at the beginning and end for shits and giggles.
Hadn't thought of mast! It's considered "safe" (yes, relative term I know) for 6 month use at low dose?
I have some MastP on hand. 35 mg Mon/Wed/Fri?
Agree on the orals, I like to dabble with anadrol or anavar periodically when on TRT. But again, woof, the lower back pumps kill my tennis game. Was toying with the idea of turinabol, but honestly.. not sure if I'm just making life complicated at that point.
That’s exactly how I’d run the mast, probably a touch more though. Sides are typically all about dosages unless you’re sensitive to something. If 50mg of anavar is giving you bad back pumps, run 25mg, etc… you’ll fine tune it, but in your (and mine) case, less may be more.