Drask88's picture
Drask88
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+ 1 Subq vs IM

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I am on trt and do subq injections ED. Just easier for me to use an insulin syringe and since I inject such little volume it works well for me. I’m only on 140mg/wk though.

Just curious if any of the people who use a lot of test 500mg+ use subcutaneous injections and how it works out for them.

BrainsNGainz's picture

Can do "shallow IM" with 0.5 inch needle in the ventromedial glute, done 2cc without any issues and no painful lump/deposit since it just barely gets deep enough to hit muscle (easier at lower bodyfat). I wouldn't do oil in any spot that I normally do peptides in bacstat water such as love handles/belly, haven't tried but figure it would just be uncomfortable and noticable.

RazorRambo24's picture

There's so much conflicting information on subq vs IM.. But you are also speakinga bout ED dosage so thats 2 subjects in the same note..

I have tried ED or EOD dosing, and once a week.. and I found that once a week was just better for many reasons for me, most of them being that i didnt feel any different and it saved me pins, time and was just alot more easy on my life.

Now SUBq vs IM, my own experience, I prefer IM. Subq with oils always feels weird and unnatural to me. I go by the old adage that if it aint broke then dont fix it.. The reason why IM was always used primarily is because it reaches the blood faster.. When you are dealing with an ester attached to your test or w/e compound you are taking, there's always going to be a delay in the utilization of said compoound.. so why slow it down further by doing SUBq injections which are known to reach the blood alot slower? Probably because some people don't feel comfortable pinning into muscle as it can be uncomfortable for some.

Black90tsi's picture

I used to do ED subq injections. I've since switched to ED IM injections. I got tired of the lumps i would get maybe 1/3 of the time from subq. I actually saw an increase in my total and free t levels just switching to IM as well. Doing 500+ mg/wk is going to be a ton of oil to push subq.

lundgren's picture

Hello,

I think about this study :

80 patients used Test Cypionate for trt in IM 100 to 200mg (some used 125 some 150 etc and the posologie max are 200mg)

The study are to switch from IM to SC.

First time 40mg SC every 7 days, after some weeks blood work coming low.

Second time 70mg, that's better but need more dose

Third time 80mg, blood work coming great and patient feeling great too.

The problem, 60 patients had an increase in PSA level and return to IM protocol.

At the same posologie the study showed that estrogen levels were much higher with SC injection.

Personnaly in the past when i used TRT + HCG i used micro injection of test (around 0.3ml / injection 2-3 time weekly) and i noticed that i had a lot more water retention vs IM and the blood work indicate more estradiol too.

SC are great when your on low dose but you need to check more the PSA level because the risk are more elevated than IM.

I know one patient, he's use test no ester every day 10-20mg in SC and feel amazingly but he's have ton of water retention.

In resume for 500 or more IM are more advisable than subcutaneously (⁠人⁠ ⁠•͈⁠ᴗ⁠•͈⁠)

Drask88's picture

Wouldn’t TNE be out of your body in a few hours? I know in Europe they prescribe prop with ed injections. That’s the lowest ester I’ve seen.

vengar's picture

Can you link this source, because this study says the exact opposite.

SCTE-AI was independently associated with lower post-therapy E2 (p <0.001) and HCT (p <0.001). Neither TRT modality was associated with significant post-therapy elevation of PSA (p=0.965). .

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34694927/

Drexyl's picture

A long ester every day? I have to ask, did you get this advice from a YouTuber?

Jaxattax86's picture

@Drexyl believe it or not, when I first started TRT it was with an online clinic. I’ve since switched to an actual urologist because the online clinic prices are absolutely insane for what you get (one 10ml vial every 2.5 months, cookie cutter dose of 200mg/week, blood tests even in the beginning only every 6 month so no dialing in TRT dose, and 100 insulin syringes for $350 every 2 months) but they’re protocol was .14ml subq every day of test-cyp.

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Drask88's picture

No I’ve been doing this for a while. My sides are just better with ed vs twice a week. I get much less acne mostly.

Plus when I do labs I don’t have to time anything I can just schedule them at my leisure. ED pinning isn’t bad and a 3 month supply is like 15 bucks. It works for me.

Rosschestzip's picture

I’m doing my long ester ED right now. Only because it would’ve been to complicated to schedule everything differently. Like test twice a week, NPP 3 times a week and mast everyday, I would be missing shots and skipping days and be all messed up. So I just added everything up and divided by 7, easiest way for me.

EDIT: just realized SeeOhShow basically said the same thing lol, but mine is more for scheduling then volume

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Greg's picture

You can try it out but anything over 1/2 mil Could be a pain, plus anything overdosed or poorly brewed.
Sub q can be on love handles to help add more injection sites

Rosschestzip's picture

Ya idk if I could handle it I’m doing 2.3ccs a day right now and that’s too much.

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Drexyl's picture

Sub-q ? @Greg talked about this a while back, if I remember correctly his TRT doc is a fan of the frequent sub-q injections as well. Greg has a few years on us, he’s an older man in a young man’s game, that speaks for itself when it comes to his word.

DeeMan's picture

I do remember trying sub q and having a lump on my belly that took a month or so to go away and that was injecting half an ML.

Rosschestzip's picture

Oh no I don’t do subq I wish I could, I’d consider it for trt but with too much volume it would be suicide lol. I’ve heard of guys doing everything sub q in the belly and getting a hard roll built up there over time

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23Sparta's picture

don’t subq in the abdomen. Steve does all his subq in his upper glute. I use my upper thigh

23Sparta's picture

Yeah, all bad, especially with oil. I just don’t understand how he injects the upper glute? I pinch my skin and am not able to do that and inject the upper glute. Maybe he can reach or doesn’t pinch the skin, it’s not necessary to do so if you know what you’re doing.

DeeMan's picture

Tried it long ago and got a lump on belly that took 3 weeks to go away. Not for me.

23Sparta's picture

Yeah, the abdomen is not the ideal location for subq oil. I just get sick of IM injections, they are too invasive, ED or EOD, especially when I’m not even blasting. I just switched to .10ml of test ED, subq, in my upper thigh and it’s so easy peasy

DeeMan's picture

O yeah? I can imagine. 10ml is easy peasy.

Rosschestzip's picture

Where on the upper thigh? Like the inner thigh? I feel like that’s the only fat, the front and outer side are all muscle it feels like

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23Sparta's picture
wanted's picture

Whose gona help me shoot into my lower loins ????? Anyone , help

23Sparta's picture

I thought loins where your nuts

DeeMan's picture

+1 Good stuff man...thanks

Rosschestzip's picture

That spot is super lean for me, I guess I’m built weird? Lol. It would probably work with the 8mm syringe, but I think the best would be that lower back fat area

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23Sparta's picture

Idk bro, I like the lean areas and use the short tip, just pull the skin away, and pop it 90 degree. You want the injection in between the skin and the muscle. When I tried to inject my love handle, I didn’t inject deep enough and got a sterile abscess

Rosschestzip's picture

I’ll have to switch thing up and see what happens

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23Sparta's picture

Yeah I mean, I just get sick of IM, even shallow IM. I need a break right now and don’t mind popping 10iu of 300mg test subq a day

DeeMan's picture

Wow .how much oil did u inject?

23Sparta's picture

I don’t remember exactly it was my second cycle, maybe 1/3 of a ml. It was test and primo. Primo in my right love handle and test in my left. They both fucked up. The test was in grape seed I believe and the primo idk the oil but was 200mg. The primo side was bad. My injection protocol was good, sterile.

DeeMan's picture

Man I had no idea you experimented with sub q like that. U damn near an expert. Yea I always feared getting a sterile abscess

23Sparta's picture

Yeah, I mean I was just that one time in the love handles and never again! It was horrible, I have pictures, you would throw up

DeeMan's picture

I'll catch ya tomorrow

23Sparta's picture

Alright now bro

DeeMan's picture

Yea I gotta weak stomach

DeeMan's picture

Yea it's pretty easy to figure out. The fat is there so I know what you're talking about. So no issues huh?

23Sparta's picture

No, not any issues this time so far. I’m using test in miglyol 812. First time using it subq. I believe carrier oils, solvents and the compound itself have an effect on whether you can do this without having any issues or not. I’ve tried it several time, have learned not to inject the abdomen, also to say away from fattier parts of the body such as love handles

DeeMan's picture

Yea the type of oil definitely plays a huge part no doubt. I used grapeseed oil which was a no no.

23Sparta's picture

Yeah maybe gape seed too thick. I’m pushing this mig out of a 30g no problem

DeeMan's picture

Yep that's my point. Oil thickness is definitely a factor

23Sparta's picture

Yeah, agreed. You gotta have the right oil and it’s gotta be made well. I know Steve does all subq and others make it work. I’ve even had real pharma subq auto injectors before. They were badass, I came up on a box of four. Each one was one use, I don’t remember the mg though. I used them on one of my bros to get his trt going. You cock it, pinch some belly, press it against the skin and hit the button. Needle shoots in, subq injects the test, and then retracts

DeeMan's picture

Lol like I said you're an expert.

23Sparta's picture

lol, just something I play around with because I know it can work and I get sick of IM

23Sparta's picture
23Sparta's picture

These charts differ too. I just go anywhere that I can clearly separate the skin from the muscle and inject in-between. But yeah, top of my thigh, in the area at the top of the green on the diagram and towards my groin

Rosschestzip's picture

I think it’s more lower back. Like the love handles but on the backside. It’s one of the last places to lose fat when you get shredded.

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