+ 1 Daily "carb cycling
So I don't want to come across like I'm disagreeing with you if you're all for the bulk and cut. i would just like to share my experience with another method.
*****disclaimer- I'm not what I would call either ripped or huge* I'm about 6'2". Definitely not what I would call stage ready or even close to a body builder look. 225-228 and 12%BF
I used insulin management to both gain muscle and lose fat. I was off cycle for about 18 month and ran this diet for about ( and made the changes I'm talking about) over the course of about 9 months. I no longer care about my look, I just want to be strong as hell. So I went back to just really eating what I want, which made me much more happy. Doing this was miserable, the results were great though! I'd love to see what you guys think. I might go back and try this on cycle to see the results. Anyway this is what I did:
Before - 215 lbs ~15% BF
After - 228 lbs ~ 12% BF
So I ate low carb from breakfast all the way until after working out, my post workout shake was full of carbs and my post work out meal was the same. I was training at night, so it was my last meal. I got the idea from Poliquin. The idea is have the body burning fat during the day and use the PWO carbs to work on building. Like a carb cycle each day. Here is an example day:
Breakfast
8-10 eggs, cup of spinach, 1/4 cup almonds
Snack
Greek yogurt 2 cups
2 cups berries
Lunch
Steak salad
12oz sirloin
About 5-6 cups greens
Tomatoes
Onions
Nuts
Olive oil as dressing
Snack-
Cottage cheese
Apple or berries
PWO shake
80g whey
300g maltodextrin
*forst time I drank this I thought I was gonna puke, and I feel asleep on a couch in my gym before leaving.
Dinner- chicken or some other meat- 1lb of meat roughly
3 cups or rice or 2 potatoes
As much veggies as I could fit in and than some
Sometimes I had ice cream before bed if I couldn't sleep, if say I did this maybe once a week on average
Just trying to open some discussion about the topic. Let me know what you guys think!
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So after reading this post from Weightlifter i am coming up with the # 19.55 lbs in muscle gain in 9 months and 6.45 lbs in BF loss. All off cycle also.
How long have you been working out seriously? And what was your dietary habits before this body composition change?
It ends up being -4.89 lbs of fat (215x.15=32.25, 228x.12=27.36, 32.25-27.36=4.89)
So only around 18 lbs of muscle gained in 9 months.- 1/2lb a week. Had played sports and trained for strength for a while, never really followed a diet just ate whole foods and high protein. Although besides this stint with this diet I never really measured anything. This was my first time doing body building style workouts (training for size). Most likely my last too.
Rustyhookerused insulin management to both gain muscle and lose fat.
do, not only did you violate rules here but posted wacky agenda? Insulin is against rules because dummies dont use it proper.
Tony is dead correct. Restudy poloquin. He also was the guy that taught old school BIG BULKS. He had me up my calories back in 91 to 8,000 per day. 100% drug free and gained 18 scale pounds while dropping sub6%. Got sponsored that day by the biggest gym on earth.
Recomp is fine if youre at your comfort zone. But to compete? Not gonna get happen. The needed mass will be lost during cut.
Either route....I cant regurgitate any more. Tony has it point on. Ill be back at 215....
I didn't not use insulin.... I was referring to the body's natural production of insulin when sugars are ingested. If you read the rest of the comments, I already said I don't fuck with that shit for the reason you pointed out.
I also said I have no interest in body building, so I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes. I'm also not here with an agenda.
No need to be snippy about it bro.
RustyhookerSo whats your end goal? Not about being snippy, trying to see what your doing. Highschoolers without gear are heavier. Mist folks have some target to hit
http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/02/08/how-big-are-college-footb...
I currently am working on getting stronger. Specifically in the snatch and clean and jerk.
I did the diet for the purpose of a body recomp. At the time I was doing body building style training. By no means would I consider myself a body builder, as I'm not aspiring to compete.
Now that I'm back to Olympic style weightlifting, I'm solely focused on getting stronger. However, the recomp comes into play because I currently float around 102-105kg at roughly 12-14%BF. I compete in the 105kg weight class. I am going to running a cycle in the next couple weeks and was starting to think about diet. I normally eat what I want, as I just want to recover and feel full. Again, I don't care so much what I look like. I can't get much heavier than maybe 108kg though. Anymore and cutting down to compete, I lose too much strength. So I'm just getting people's feedback on diet. Hence why I posted something that had worked well in the past.
As of now, my plan is continue eating what I want however. Which is why I didn't just ask for advice. I don't want to be one of these assholes on here who posts a question then doesn't like the answers and gets pissy.
I was more just getting some feedback as I think out loud.
RustyhookerExcellent! I can understand your ideals better now. Good luck, theres a good bunch of power lifters here.
Thanks bro. Sorry if I came off like a dick. I just re-read some of my comments; it was not my intention to come off like a prick
When I first started competing I was natural and did tested shows, ocb shows. Were there guys who did recomp like diet/lifting cycles? Sure , did they place well? Rarely. The majority of us did the same thing that's been done forever in bodybuilding we didn't try and recreate the fucking wheel a normal bulk and cut.
If you want to be an in shape aesthetic guy sure recomps are fine BUT IF YOUR A COMPETITIVE BODYBUILDER NATURAL OR NOT you will not get far. But to put on quality mass you need a surplus of cals to fit your macro needs to grow. Now im not talking blowing up getting fat. You need to know how to carb cycle when bulking and cutting. You do not eat the same thing every day nor do you eat the same caloric intake daily. You plan your meals around your days physical demands for example: leg day requires a greater caloric intake as an arm day would require less and rest days would require less.
Progress in the weight room comes from diet and diet alone. Period. slinging weights around and running your ass off on a treadmill will only go soo far and then the progress will come to a screeching halt.
I stay relatively lean all year low teens because I carb cycle and don't let myself get out of control. Now people who have seen my pics know I am not talking out my ass and my physique does the talking not half assed studies off the internet. Naturally I was onstage at light heavy (191 at weigh in time) and blew up from there. I have never been onstage over 5 to 6% bf and im 5'7.
Lately the theme with guys and they all are average joe body styles claiming they don't want to be monsters but want to preach facts and give out knowledge and advice on topics. Lately its recomps. Recomps are all fine and dandy but lately we have guys thinking they are going to drop 8 to 10% bf and put on 20+lbs of lean tissue on an be under 8% bf................GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE. I want to see it.
Recomps , bulks , cuts , all fine and dandy. But, many guys are talking pure fucking miracles , I have friends who are natural pros and iffb pros from all different classes who could not produce the results these guys are aiming for. I don't know whats in the coolaid lately but pass brother TT the cup because its for sure some good shit.
shiningstarspot on and very well said post!
Well said. Sometimes all it takes is a notebook or an actual journal. Eating a specific amount of carbs or protein for 4 weeks straight with no cutting corners and then weighing yourself and or looking in the mirror and see if there is any changes....If not then another 4 weeks switched up and same procedure as before.
I believe its tough for Average Joe to do that because he wants to eat whatever the fuck he wants and drink beer all the time and wants lean/bulk in the shortest route possible which is not possible. The tren will burn the fat for me. No discipline. Just because you go to the gym every day at the same time and do the same workout does not mean dedication, dedication comes from what happens outside of the gym in the kitchen, at work, walking around the mall and getting hungry and reaching for a muffin or a slice of pizza. Trial and error in your food intake on a monthly basis will determine growth potential and even loss of fat with minimal loss of muscle mass. +2 Brother.
Thanks for the input. That makes a lot of sense. I have never competed in a show. So, I'd say I'm pretty clueless when it comes to the whole body building world. It's nice to know if I ever decide to, that there is a wealth of knowledge here to help me do it successfully. Thanks for the post bro
Anonmaltodextrin? Never heard of this! Is it something to be at your local Walmart?
Willy Wonka Bottle caps. No HFCS and a great source of maltodextrin and dextrose when carb loading and they taste good too.
Gummy bears are also a great dextrose supplier, but only certain ones. When I feel shaky and light headed I pop a mouthful and get my energy back.
I'm gonna have to try that!
Simple sugars- old school. Here's where I got mine: cheap as hell
http://shop.honeyville.com/maltodextrin-50lb.html
All the major supplement stores will sell as well, but check the price difference. Industrial bag is the way to go
Wow that is super cheap and only 5$ flat rate shipping. I usually use NOW dextrose which I get about that price in bulk. How is the sweetness of malto? I see it has a higher rating on the gi index as well
Well at 300g a shake, it's fucking gross lol. Super sweet. When I add it to a chocolate protein shake at 60g or so, I don't even notice it.
Nice work on your transformation. Recomps are possible, they just take a long long time (9 months in your case) and the end results are great. They are also much easier to accomplish for individuals who may be further away from their natural potential and are rather "new" to diet and training. Now could you have gained more mass if you strictly tried bulking and then cutting any unwanted fat off, who knows. In any case you made great strides and this wasn't accomplished over night with a quick cycle of AAS. Some long grueling dieting and hard work went into your recomp.
I have done this classic bulk then cut, and have seen better results, the prosses was also about 4 month longer.
I'm going on cycle here in 2 weeks, and I have no body comp goals for my cycle - I just want to get stronger. But I think I'm gonna get back on this diet while on and see what it does. Just as a little experiment. Do you think that would hinder my strength gains?
Strength gains go out the window with me when I am cutting or restricting carbs. Pound the carbs and food and strength and energy go through the roof for me. If you are not to concerned about body comp and focusing purely on strength gains, I wouldn't limit carbs or restrict cals.
Yeah since I've made the switch to weightlifting that's been what I've been doing. I haven't tried restricting anything or following any specific diet like the one I listed. I guess no need to. Thanks for the reply
Pretty much goes along with how most people diet here. If you're endomorph the majority of carbs should be around workouts. 300grams is intense. I can only comfortably include 120grams with my pwo shake. You're a beast
Bro I literally felt the insulin sweats under my eyes after drinking it the first time. Then I took a half hour nap. I got used to after about a week or so.
Almost 1600 cals straight to the muscles has to be intense. You supplementing with slin or gh?
NO SLIN TALK ON THIS BOARD.
Sorry brother
No, I can't afford GH year round, so I feel my money is better spent on quality food and focus on making the most out of cycles. As for insulin, it scares the crap out of me. I'm not willing to risk it. Plus I think eating low carb makes me pretty insulin sensitive- making the PWO spike really work
I think all approaches serve a purpose. It always depends on what the person wants to achieve.
For strength oriented athletes the main goal should be to be as lean and muscular as possible while still performing at the highest level in the most optimal weightclass.
For those athletes, I don't really see the point in bulk/cutting cycles. I want to be competitive and its not a out the aesthetics. The main goal is the performance and for this, I only need a slight surplus where my weight doesn't really fluctuate but still a recomposition happens.
This will also hold true for a high level bodybuilder. Cut and bulking cycles would be detrimental because an elite BB athlete could only pack a marginal amount of muscle mass to his frame in a year. So for him, the best determination for muscle addition would be progress in the weight room, because visual changes would be too slow to track and usual bulk/cut cycles would only be spinning wheels.
It must be said, this would only hold true for a natural elite BB.
For all others who are aesthetic oriented, I guess a bulk/cut approach would be the most effective. That doesn't necessarily mean everyone has to do it.