+ 8 Pin sizes and injection sites for beginners
There are several preferences when it comes to pin sizes. Some will prefer 23g all around, some will go with 1" all around. Some even prefer to use insulin pins all around. All of these will get the compound into the muscle, if used properly. Below are my recommendations for the beginner that is still trying to adapt and learn their body.
Gauge Sizes
The gauge size determines the flow rate of the injection compound. The larger the hole, the faster the flow rate. The faster the flow rate, the quicker it enters the muscle and the greater chance of it to sit in one spot. Reducing the speed of the flow, either with the plunger or the pin size, will allow for the compound to spread out more evenly. For the beginner, this is important because you are injecting a foreign material into the body and the body is not used to seeing this. Therefore the likelihood of experiencing PIP is higher for you than a more experienced person. You don't have to time it, but a flow rate of approx. 30 sec per cc would significantly help reduce PIP.
Pin Sizes
The pin size matters depending on the muscle being injected. The glutes are the largest that you will inject, but they are also the deepest. Even in a fairly lean individual, a layer of fat must be penetrated prior to entering the muscle. Ideally, you should try to get towards the center of the muscle being injected. This is where the pin length comes into play. Smaller muscles and those with less fatty tissue can be injected with shorter pins.
Glutes: 25g, 1.5"
Quads: 25g, 1"
Delts: 25g, 1"
Note: I chose 25g for the first timer because it will help to control the flow rate to a point that will help to reduce the PIP for you. Otherwise, 23g could be used for quads and glutes.
Injection Amount
The larger the muscle, the greater the amount of liquids it can hold. Likewise, the smaller the muscle, the lesser amount it is capable of sustaining.
Glutes: 5cc
Quads: 3cc
Deltoids: 1cc
Site Locations & Rotations
When you begin EOD pinning, you're going to want to rotate your injection sites in a manner that allows each pinned muscle time to rest and recover from the stress caused by introducing the foreign matter. This means to avoid pinning the same muscle twice in one week. With good rotation of just glutes, quads, and delts, on a basic cycle with a prop taper and/or kicker, you can accomplish this. This link is a good resource for you to learn site locations:
- Bookmark
- 8
- 0
Great info, Thanks man!
OursIsTheFuryI have a solid question, I have only been pinning my glutes and delts because I hear how ridiculous the quad pip is. Is really that bad or is it just because virgin muscle gets pip first? Would love some input, it would make my next cycle easier to know I could handle the quad injection.
Man, I love pinning quads. Big muscle group, so it's easy to avoid scar tissue. Plus, you can hold the barrel with one hand while pressing the plunger or aspirating with the other.
Only thing that sucks is getting used to it with a virgin muscle. Good clean, pip free gear makes a huge difference on pip.
OursIsTheFuryThanks a ton Doss for the reply. I am going to have to man up and do it, will make my prop cycle a lil smoother.
Pwins417Great post man +1
I really think that's relative to the size of your quad, I've pinned 3mgs in my quad and couldn't walk... I don't go over 2mgs now LOL
Great post, I was working on something similar but you beat me to it, great work +2 my bro.
You're absolutely right. It is def relative to the size of the muscle. Just like with most of the advice given here, it's not a "one size fits all" kinda thing. These are just some generalized guidelines to help newbs eliminate some guess work while they learn what works best for them. I got these numbers from the literature taught while my wife was still in nursing school.
This is actually a fairly old post. It's dated March 2013. But that's only when I reposted it. The original one was posted under my previous acct a year or so before this one. No changes made, but acct was deleted so you'll see a few of mine still up with no ownership. Admin couldn't give me any of my previous karma or ownership of my threads when I came back, so I reposted some of my shit.
Yeah I assumed that reading through, I just got to that point and went; ekk! My quad started to twitch when I read it LMAO; it's a great guideline don't get me wrong bro, just thought they might want to be a little cautious pinning quads the first few times. It sucks they didn't give you credit but your getting it now bro
I hear ya. Lol. The brew really has a lot to do with tolerance. I ran some mast e recently that I think had a really high BA content. It literally burned a lil going in and hurt like a bitch for two days, and that's with a cc of test with GSO to cut it. In the glute, all I could handle was 2cc. Quads, one cc uncut...
That must be the reason I could walk for two days the first time I ran mast-p. I pinned my glute like always and I swear bro it feel like I had an infection red and painful; within 48 hours, after about 64 hours the pain and redness subsided and I felt great. Two days later, I pinned it again, same thing happened, but not as painful or red, needless to say I stop running it completely and swapped it out for npp. I ran the mast, with the intentions of being in the abs a little more and making them as solid as possible in relation to the rest of my body. Im going to contact the manufacturer and find out what the chemical composition of the oil they had the hormone matrixed in.
I've actually never had an issue with mast prop. I've never brewed so Idk shit about it and couldn't tell you what typically goes into it. But I do know that high BA gear gives me flu symptoms. That shit gave me some wicked ass flu symptoms, and burned going in.
I've had some pretty wicked gear, in terms of pip and flu. I generally get used to it after about 5 pins or so. I ran this shit at 600 mg a week for 12 weeks. Never got used to it.
That's good to know, I'll have to look into myself, I never had any bad reaction besides that mast-p. I've ran it since and been okay.
I understand what you mean, just have to tough it out bro... kinda ruins leg day, but once you get the blood flow and the quads start hurting you forget all about the pip
I would suggest all of the newer guys start taking chances on new pin sites sooner rather than later. Especially if you ever plan on running fast esters. ED pinning will require a ton of site rotation. But even with slow esters it is mostly irrational fear of pinning new spots. Sure different locations require different pin sizes and may have limitations on how much oil you can safely or comfortably use. Also if you have a wife or girlfriend that is cool with AAS there are locations that only another person can reach that can be utilized. One of my favorites would be rear delts.
I don't necessarily disagree. I agree with that, but for some I think control is important. When talking with certain ppl you can see behavioral types or patterns that can easily lead to the "more is better" approach. Control and discipline is most important, IMO.
Generally, I'll recommend switching sites with long ester cycles, because it allows plenty of time for site recovery between injections for new sites. But when I hear a guy mention he wants to start with delts on his first cycle, I gotta say, "that's gonna leave a bad impression."
I hear ya. On my first cycle I committed to a six site rotation, delta, quads and glutes. There was definitely some trepidation with each new pin site but honestly delts have always been my most forgiving. Maybe I am lucky with them? But like we always say, each of us is different.
I had a bad batch of prop when I first worked my delts in. Shit gave me cellulitis in both them bitches. Didn't pin delts again for about a year.
Wow, yea that would definitely sour someone on them in a hurry. I understand now. Knock on wood , I have been very fortunate thus far and had no complications. I had a coupe hard lumps in my lats that scared me a little but a week or so was all they lasted.
This is a great post! Just a little warning. Do not try pinning delta with a 1.5" and think I'll just put it in half way. I did this successfully a couple times and got compliance about it. Once I went straight through the muscle while pushing the plunger (easy to do with a sharp ass needle) and ended up with the oil settling in around the elbow and swollen. Hurt like hell for a couple of days. Morale of the story use the correct pin for the muscle you are injecting always! Don't half ass it.....
Ouch!
Great info man thanks. Im going to start my first cycle ever as soon as my gear comes in. Test cryp 250x2 once a week with proper pct and diet. Plan on going with a delt what would be best 23or25g 1 or 1.5inch. Thanks for any help need to learn all I can guys.
Might wanna stick to a larger muscle for pinning on your first run bro. The initial soreness and general pip in a virgin muscle can leave you where it's difficult to lift your arm. Stick with the glutes bro and go with 23g, 1.5"
Wow thanks for the info , I am currently using 21ga 1.5 in to hit the glutes and I experience pip hard , I still feel a hard lump after 3 days , I have a 100 of these pins , can I still use them ? And what can I do to ease my pip ?
Thank you !
You're welcome bro
Wow, great info. I'm learning a lot! I've never injected into quads or delts. Guess I'll try
I would also suggest 18g to draw oils (unless you have nothing better to do) LOL!
I would suggest grabbing a snickers if you're using a 25ga.. literally 10 minutes to draw 3mgs LMAO
Haha. Indeed
Really good post. +1 Have PM'ed you regarding this topic.
Great post bro. +1
bigKountryThanks bro fixing to go to 500 mg mast.and test prop a week nice to know.
Another great post by the Doss! +1
Thank you sir
So since I posted here last... Im running only short esters, ED PINS. I have switched over to 5/8 for Pecs, Delts and Quads. I also have been rotating between 1" and 1 1/2" for Glutes. I love the 5/8 ! Its so nice as far as pip and just the injection in general. @ j223 I also have been pinning close to 3cc in all muscle groups without any issues, About 400mg of hormone total. I forgot that this was the post that got me thinkinjg about the 5/8. thanks guys!
Yea I think pank was right about different muscle sizes. For me I've always had wide delts so pinning deep and high volume was never a problem
I did 1/2inch test/mast/tren in my chest today and had a little 'pip' lol but I think it's from only using 1/2 inch not the volume I injected. I should have stuck with 5/8 for chest those are my favorite for that spot.
I would have to agree. I love pinning my chest Brother. I was afraid of it for far to long. I also use 5/8.. I have tried 1/2 and 1" as well but 5/8 just feels right.
essentially, it's all about getting close to the center of the muscle being injected. this can be subjective depending on the individual's body composition, of course. what i have listed above are some general guidelines for beginners.
a high percentage of the guidance/advice given on this site is in the form of general guidelines, which are designed to get the beginner started. it is thru personal experiences that the individual becomes more familiar with what is needed specifically for them. this is when adjustments are made.
I hope you didn't take my post the wrong way Brother. I was just trying to give you a compliment for starting a great thread, and its great for anyone . Not just beginners. I'm no where near a beginner and I learned something here. It may not have been something you posted specifically. I had stated I had never used a 5/8 for any of those muscle groups and now that I have I wanted to re post .
no. not at all. my reply was mainly for the next man that reads this thread. some of the most common questions i get asked from newbs generally revolve around their perception of "what is the next man doing". so, i wanted to point out that these things aren't exactly set in stone.
I agree 100%
Just didn't want you to think I was downing on the thread . In reality the exact opposite ! Thanks for posting the Thread Doss
never thought that for a sec.
Doss I been pinning 3 cc's in delts, biceps and pecs for a while now is it true the delts can only hold 1cc???
I agree with you. It is a good chart for those who don't have a lot of muscle built up yet. But some people's biceps are the size of another person's deltoids. So it really is on a case by case basis depending on the amount of lean muscle mass.
StevebI think those estimates are for average sized muscles. You're probably a lot bigger then the average person.
Damn Homie.... Thats savage! 3cc in the delts biceps and pecs?! I was always told that was a no no.. But if you have been doing it, How has it worked for you? The supposed problem with Injecting a large amount of oil into a smaller muscle group is that the smaller muscle just doesnt have enough mass to hold that much oil and it will realease far faster than if injected into a larger muscle group. So In thoery it would probaly depend on the person and the size of the persons muscle. Do you have your bloodwork done? If this is common practice for you and your bloods come back stable then you know your good. I have never went over 1.5 cc in bicep, pec, or delt. Thigh 2cc. But if your bloods have been even Im willing to give it a try.
Not precisely... I got these guidelines from my ole lady's medical textbooks. She's a nursing student graduating in December with a BSN. These guidelines were derived based on the average person with the given muscular size. Some of us are definitely above average.
Other factors, of course, would be how frequently a muscle has been injected and with what amounts. For instances, the glute is the largest group. As such, it has the greatest capacity. However, a virgin glute will most likely not handle more than 1cc until it adapts. I personally can't go beyond 3 cc in my glues without being sore and/or swollen the next day. If I were to go beyond that for a length of time, it would adapt.
You must have some big ass delts to be pinning that amount and have been doing it a while? I never could get my delts to acclimate so I don't pin them.
Any of you guys shot 1" in glutes? Thats all I have and was planning quads and (hopefully) glutes. Will prob add delts.
Best to use 1 1/2' in glutes, otherwise it's hard to reach the muscle
I pinned my delts with 1" when I tried them. Only pinned for a couple weeks and gave up bc I had some high BA oils that caused too much pain for a virgin muscle.
I don't but have heard of plenty of people that do. I get knots if I use 1" there. But I don't have a flat ass either. Lol
Muscleg33kI used 27g 5/8" for delts. hardly a PIP!