+ 8 17-aa: Oral vs Injectable
17-aa compounds... for those of you that don't know what these are, they are a group of steroids containing a 17-alpha alkylated (17aa) chemical structure. these steroids are typically found in oral form; however, more of them are found today in injectable forms.
What I want to talk about here is the routes of entry, in terms of toxic impact...
Most of us have a basic idea of the term orals. a quick browse of the site tells the user that orals are toxic to the liver, specifically those with the 17-aa structure. Examples of these compounds include but aren't limited to the following:
• Dbol
• Anavar
• Tbol
• Anadrol
• Winstrol
With the exception of tbol and anavar, all of these compounds can be found in injectable form. And with that fact often brings the question, “is it less toxic because it’s not an oral?” This is a bit tricky to answer and easy to be misconstrued. Let’s look at one of the physiological processes that has the greatest impact: digestion.
A basic understanding of digestion tells us that we ingest foods, the foods are essentially broken down into molecules small enough to be absorbed, and then they enter the bloodstream to interact with the body’s cells. With that understanding comes the mentality that absorption into the bloodstream takes place solely in the small intestines, when in fact it goes further than this.
Regardless of the substance ingested (medicine or food), once digestive enzymes have simplified the molecules to allow for passage across the intestinal wall, these molecules must go thru what is called “first-pass metabolism” before they enter the bloodstream. And it works like this: the substance is absorbed by the intestine to enter the hepatic portal vein where it travels to the liver. Once entering the liver, a final stage of metabolic processes involving enzymes takes place prior to passing thru and entering the bloodstream to be made available to the body’s cells. This is called first-pass metabolism.
Now that we understand that process, we can use it with the context of this topic. How does first-pass impact orals and liver toxicity?
The degree of toxicity is determined by the 17-aa structure, as well as the concentration of the compound administered. Although each compound possesses an individual degree of toxicity, I’m not going to delve much into that aspect – that will be another conversation… Generally speaking, the liver is charged with the task of toxifying the molecular structure throughout the active life of the drug so as to allow for excretion.
With the oral versions, this happens twice: once during first-pass and again during the active life. With the injectable versions, this takes place only during the active life as the blood moves thru the liver. This is because the injectable forms are not ingested and, therefore, do not undergo first-pass metabolism.
One interesting aspect of all this is how first-pass metabolism impacts the strength of the drug administered. When a substance undergoes first-pass metabolism, chemical reactions take place that degrades the substance to some degree. As a result, the strength is reduced prior to entering the bloodstream. When injected, the drug is allowed to enter the bloodstream much faster, while skipping the degrading processes provided by first-pass metabolism. As a result, the injectable versions pack a better punch. It is this reason that injectable forms of medicine have been proven to be more effective when administered at equal doses versus the oral forms.
In summary, degree of toxicity is somewhat variable from oral to injectable. However, the drugs 17-aa structure still must be degraded in order to allow for excretion, which is a tasked charged to the liver. First-pass metabolism provides for a double wammy (so to speak) in terms of toxic impact, as well as reduces the strength of the drug once entering the bloodstream.
Which is better? That’s a question only you can answer, depending on personal stance.
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aynazppr75They all exist in injectable form. A 17aa is a 17aa, there's no scientist explanation who can proved that an oral is more toxic than an another except legend urban, mg for mg. But it would be an interesting question for a biochemist I dont have enough knowledges to answer it.
You're partially right. A 17aa is a 17aa. But because the orals have to pass thru the intestinal wall and hepatic portal vein, it undergoes first pass metabolism in the liver before entering the bloodstream. It is because of this that the bioavailability of the orals are reduced in comparison to the injectables.
aynazppr75I agree with you dude I prefer by far injectables but I spoke about liver toxicity, nothing of really serious proved that a 17aa is more hepatoxic than an another 17aa
Great post, bro
You have a lot of great knowledge Doss. FR sent i hope to pick your brain as well.
Very excellent post brother! I found it very informative and think it helps clear up injection to liver toxicity that eludes so many people.
+1
Thanks brother! I actually need to pick your brain about something. Sending ya a PM
MakaveliCD7Damn nice informative post brother!! I think a lot of ppl get misconceptions that the liver is not effected when u inject but it does but not impactual stress of oral due to that first pass and the con of degradation of the compound....excellent breakdown brother +1
Good read brother. Just wanted to update you on one little thing. I have found a source(new to eroids) that carriers an injectable version on tbol. thought i'd let ya know. Nice write up tho!
Thanks brother. That is cool too
waltrwhat is it in the 17aa structure that makes it toxic to the liver?
do you know what the reaction is that causes the liver to be harmed?
What makes it toxic is the molecular structure. It requires degradation in order to be excreted. The degradation process is facilitated via enzyme activity. Therein, liver enzyme values are indicators of liver toxicity. The toxic reaction is that of secretory inhibition. Particularly in regards to bile secretion. This is a dose dependent effect, of course. Te average recommended dose for males is 50-100mg ED. Females are much lower, which def puts us at a greater risk.
BigBmajThe liver is a pretty amazing organ. I tend to not worry about mine much. I worry more about cardiovascular heath. The liver replaces itself once every 5 months right? As long as there is no major damage that prevents cell replication it shouldn't be a huge problem, or am I crazy?
I see everyone taking Liv52 and NAC. I think that's great but I've never even considered it. I drank like a fish for probably 20 years and my values are still below 10,000.
What do you think?
i'm really not sure on how the liver rejuvenates.. i also tend to neglect mine, unfortunately... but i wanted to bring some facts to light about a topic i've discussed privately a few times.
waltrthanks for the information dude, you're a wealth of knowledge lurking around here
i took all the advice word for word you gave me on the sus cycle i asked you about about a month and a half back too and it's been going great so far
awesome brother! i'm glad to hear it's working for you. i'm always here to help