+ 21 test prop taper
I've been getting so many pm about a test prop taper. So I figured I would make a forum. The prop taper was a game changer to me it made going into pct and recovery seem so much easier. I will never run another long ester cycle without incorporating a taper at the end. I'm always seen guys saying there going to start pct 14 or 15 days after there last shot of test e. Imo that's way to soon. I have another forum about this I'll post the link at the end so u can make up your own mind. Now back to the the taper the way I incorporated it was I waited one week after my last shot of test e. Then started my prop taper for three weeks. Week one I dosed 100 mgs eod. Week two 75 mgs eod and week three 50 mgs eod. This takes u take 30 days after your last shot of test e and ensures it is completely cleared the system. My pinning schedule was week one m,w,f,s. Week two t,t,s. Week three m,w,f,s.Then I waited another three days and started my pct for a total of 33 days. Now I see a lot of guys will just run 100 eod for three weeks but to me a true taper needs to taper your test down so your test levels are close to natural levels when u start pct. This pct was the easiest on my body and even my sex drive didn't take to big of a hit. Most pct my sex drives goes in the tank. I'm so sure of the taper been a better alternative than just letting your test levels drop off the charts. Iv wanted to help beginners with this idea. So I come to u as a community if we encourage guys with one or two cycle experience to do a taper is that wrong? By the end of your first cycle you have pinning experience and should have enough sites to pin eod for three weeks. I know prop can have more pip but after these guys have had pinning experience is this a bad idea? I've had countless people pm bout this so I think this needs to be discussed as a community.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/pct-all-wrong
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With the help of an endo, i tapered using test c. Started at 200 ew for a month, then 100ew for a month. Then finally down to 80ew for two months. No pct after that.
Switching to prop or reducing the dose of longer esters at the end of a cycle makes sense to me.
Great thread.
Really? That's awesome. I wouldn't ever run a cycle without tapering down myself
I know this is an old post but I used this technique for my first cycle of test e and I seemed to have 1 rough week - it wasn't near as bad as I expected.
I'm glad I stumbled across this post!!
It's helped me tremendously. Pct was Hell for me and this softens the blow quite a bit. Thanks for posting up your results bro
I did this after my cycle of tren e 500mg a week and 250mg test e, last pin was on a Sunday, then following Monday started 100mg test p M/W/F/S repeat M/W/F and started pct on Monday, let me tell you those 2 extra weeks were like a bonus to my cycle, I was still feeling strong and made the bridge to pct way easier, thanks ROLLTIDE3. I will have bloods about 2 months after pct if I find a place in NY
Awesome brother great to hear
Here is a real world look at a pre-PCT blood test. The OP was on 100mg of test prop only EOD last two weeks of test,tren mast,provi cycle. Bloods were taken 3 days after last shot.
https://www.eroids.com/pics/start-of-pct-bloods
thanks for posting this bloodwork
Sounds legit at 50 MG eod that would be close to what the body produces naturally. So right at the end of the 3 week taper you'd start the standard one month pct protocol nolva 40/40/20/20 clomid 100/100/50/50?
Yep it truly the only way to bridge into pct imo
Hmm maybe next cycle I'll try this out.
Loose_CannonI have used a prop taper for every single cycle I have done and I fully believe that it has made my transition into PCT smooth sailing everytime
Did u actual taper down the prop or just use 100 mgs eod?
Loose_CannonFirst two weeks of the taper I did 150 EOD then 2 weeks of 100 mgs EOD I might do one last week of 50 mgs EOD then pct or just do last week of 100 EOD then pct
Thanks for the insight think the prop taper is really under utilized imo
Thanks for this post roll tide very informational
How long would be suggested to wait to start Prop taper after last injection of Sust? I tried to access the PCT calculator mentioned in the link in this post, but it doesn't seem to be available any longer. This will be my first time using a taper and I'd like to get it as right as possible. Anything that will make my PCT smoother than it has been in previous cycles is welcome.
I'll be using prop when I finish the sustanon in my next go. I'm going to match the amount of prop I was pinning with the sust while the longer esters fade out. Figure 90mg of prop and phenylprop per mL, I'll be pinning probably .4mL ED so about 36mg of shorts per day (.4 X 90). So I think I'll skip a day after last sust shot and then start doing .8mL of prop only for about 3 weeks, which would approximately be matching the shorts during the sustanon run, meanwhile the longer esters are tapering themselves out.
RustyhookerThe prop in sust imo is too weak to really be considered. First timers on prop run 100 eod. Sust is nowhere near that dose.
Cry havoc was good at charts, tapers etc. Sust has a very long time to clear the system because the long und ester. Roidcalc.com still working?
I'll be running pretty close to that.... about 36mg of prop and phenylprop every day... that's not too far off from 100 eod.
I was going to add that I'll be actually tapering the prop for another 2 weeks...but the comment I felt was long enough already.
RustyhookerYessir. I was surprised that sust has somewhere near 5 weeks to clear. Had me rethinking tapers and pct last cycle.
Ya this is a lot more complicated than needs be imo. This won't help with the crash at the start of your pct u will go from having 560 mgs a week of prop and not even counting all the long esters built up straight to pct. This only leads to 22 days after your last shot sus right if u start a day after your last pin of sus and do this for three weeks? U need longer than 22 days for the long esters to completely clear for pct . Your test levels are goin to be thru the roof those three weeks more than they are on cycle since your not giving anytime starting your taper
Seems pretty simple and logical to me... no offense. And as I stated to Rusty, which I guess I should have added, I was going to add that I'll be actually tapering the prop for another 2 weeks...but the comment I felt was long enough already. And on top of that after the last prop shot I'll be blasting hcg, that should get test levels up using the body's natural production, then a couple days after the hcg start pct drugs. There shouldn't be any crash.
If your goin to blast hcg u need to do something like the ten day blast. If your waitn to start Taking hcg after your last shot of prop two or three times isn't enough times.plus u need to wait at least four days after your last shot of hcg to start pct. If u start your hcg and only do it for three days then u have to wait another four days thats a week after your last shot of prop thats a long time to start pct.If your giving someone advice don't leave out what your goin to do and as far as this been simple and logical well that's up for debate. There a lot wrong with this comment u just made. No disrespect but this isn't logical to me but if that's what u want to do good luck hope it's a great run
Yeah you're right, I should have kept typing on the first comment. Hcg use is debated constantly, how to and how much and how often... I'm going to consider starting the blast during the last couple weeks of prop. The cycle is going to be long enough as planned so far. I may shorten it more so than originally planned.
I have been trying to piece together what you have said so far but this is how I would taper off of sust. I ran the calculations a while back and with the long esters in the sust it takes about 28 days before levels are low enough to make starting PCT worthwhile. So what I would do is run the prop taper for 4wks at 100mg EOD. Start the taper when you would have normally taken your next sust shot but this time it is the test P. Run the prop for 4 wks and PCT 3 days after your last shot.
That's very close to what I was saying. Except just a little lower and tapering it off the last two weeks. 80mg eod for 3 weeks, 60 eod for one week, then 40 eod for one week. Then 2 days later blast whatever hcg is left and 3 days later starting pct. So we're prettty much saying the same thing. Only I'm thinking of actually tapering the prop, endogenous levels will still be way higher than natural when starting hcg, hcg will kickstart the natural production, then pct drugs should kick on the rest.
40mg of prop eod on top of the esters still lingering is still way higher than natural numbers so the transition would be no crash which is the point of the taper. I just think 100 is unnecessary for me personally. And I think the first of week of the "taper" with 100 would raise test levels since it's more than the short esters in the sust, spiking the test after getting the level stable doesn't make sense to me.
If you think I should keep it at 80 all four weeks, then I welcome suggestions. But like I said I think 100 is unnecessary...for me anyway. Again, we're saying the same thing, so there's really no argument, I'm just using slightly lower numbers.
If you are more comfortable with 80 by all means use that dose. There is no need to taper the prop dose, just keep it 80mg the whole way.
So why does everyone call it a taper? If the dosage stays the same then it's not a taper. It's just a way to hold the test levels high until everything can drop off at the same time. Which, to me, sounds like a 'crash'.
It is a matter of semantics. You are tapering off of the long esters actually and using the prop to maintain stable levels of testosterone in your system. Stability is what we are looking for here. Prop keeps your serum levels stable while you are waiting for long esters to clear. 100mg EOD of prop is pretty similar to 500mg/wk test e so you are not actually raising your test levels anymore you are just keeping them stable. The beauty of the prop is that it clears so fast that you can basically go from stable serum levels directly into PCT. Hopefully that cleared it up a bit. If not, I'll try again or maybe someone else can chime in but I think Rolltide has also done a pretty good job in his post explaining the benefits of it.
Alright then, ..and I'm not arguing, just maybe over thinking and beating a dead horse perhaps, but if you want to keep levels stable...then wouldn't you want to raise the prop amount as the long esters fade out? I suppose this would be verified on a calculator.
Exactly^^^
Can you explain the difference in opinion about tapering the Prop dosage or not. The original poster of this thread recommends to taper the Prop taper. You say there is no need for that. I would like to know why please.
right on the money imo.
I think you are over complicating things here but I commend your approach.
I've never tried this coming off of sus and I hate to comment on things i haven't tried but if it was me I would follow the same time frame. most guys start pct roughly 21 days after there last shot of sus and this would bring u out ta 33 days. Hopefully someone that's tried a taper off sus will comment
Thanks for the response. If no one with specific Sust taper experience chimes in differently then I will roll with your Test E protocol. @jimmie, thanks for your reply as well, but what you are saying doesn't make sense to me, but I hope it works for you.
Tapering was "the way" when I first used gear. Haven't done it in a long time now.
RustyhookerRemember the old pyramid cycles? They worked for me long ago. Lol
Tapering has always been the way for me, even from my first cycle ten plus years ago. Hitting the brakes and completely stopping just messes me up, the taper is a life saver
Thanks awagz it really made such a difference for me. Appreciate your experience and I put
To be honest, my first cycles in my late teens and early twenties, I just listened to my workout partner cuz he was the biggest baddest fucker in town, and he gave me (knowing what I know now), the worst advice EVER. That being said, he ALWAYS stressed a taper, so not COMPLETELY a waste lol glad it works for you, I think it would benefit almost any cycle, except like a high tren extremely low test (250mg a week or less), in that case I would just phase out the tren and space my test shots out a Lil more for the last few weeks...ok I guess that's a taper of sorts buy I'm sure u get my meaning
honestly I think any of us that has been around for minute had there first cycle a complete disaster and a lot of bro science from that gym guy. I know I did lol
Damn man first 3 or 4 here. Thank god I found this site. I took many years off and was set to do a cycle that was flat out wrong about 2 years ago, then I started reading quietly on here and now I look better then I ever have
Ya this site has saved a lot of mistakes for a whole lot of people. Glad u help people from your bad experiences on here. This site needs that
Likewise man, plus 1 for sharing knowledge.. the more you know!
Good post roll,
Thanks
As a first time user I am going to follow this tread carefully. This may be something I will think about doing even though it may not be recommended for the first time user. My reasoning is I have had depression problems in the past and also have ptsd and I am concerned that the depression during pct would effect me more than most.
Not for anything, but if you have depression and PTSD, you may want to reconsider taking AAS at all. I am a pretty upbeat guy but the end of a cycle can be downright brutal for myself, and I have no psychological issues. Just an opinion, could be something to think about...