EBC Winter 2013
Beginning Weight: 100 kg
BMI 32.4
Waste Beginning: 42"
Belly at Navel Beginning: 46"
Final Weight: 86 kg
BMI 27.5
Waste Final: 34.5"
Belly at Navel Beginning: 34.5"
BF Beginning: >30% Estimated
BF Final: 12% Estimated
Goals:
(1) Reduce BF to single digits while maintaining BMI, sacrificing up to 7kg mass to achieve.
(2) Arms/Neck above 18.0" on cold
(3) Bring out definition of quads and back
(4) Make abs visible and appealing
(5) Shift pec proportions to restore upper pec mass
(6) Give definition to calves
Concerns:
Maintain a safe diet while reducing bf
Protect ligaments and tendons while restoring old muscle mass
Clearly surpassing many basic stepping stones in this quest, I do not pass this concept to anyone.
Expectations:
I believe in "muscle has memory" and a three inch increase in biceps in two months proves that theory. the expectation for arms and necks is to restore my 2004 18" on cold measurements and my goal is 19".
Waste has to get below 36" at the belly without exception, the goal is 34" or less.
Three weeks into this cycle, stopped Caber... have taken Tren for five weeks with the first week presenting massive Progesterone sides, but noticed that Tren no longer presents other sides except for non-stop strength. Two weeks off Caber, no sides.
Four weeks into cycle, added Masteron for added cutting and AI effects. Dropped the Aromisin and one week with no estro effects. Still have enough AI on hand for full cycle if sides return
| Week | Test-P | Test-C | Masterone | Aromisin | Tren-A | Caber | Anavar | Clen | T3 | Win Depot |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 200mg Mon/Thur | 12.5mg ed | 65mg ed | .25 Mon/Thur | 50mg ed | 40/80/120 | 25/37.5/50 | |||
| 2 | 400mg Mon/Thur | 12.5mg ed | 65mg ed | .25 Mon/Thur | 50mg ed | 120/80/40 | 50/37.5/25 | |||
| 3 | 400mg Mon | 75mg ed | Off | Off | ||||||
| 4 | 80 mg ed | 300mg Mon | 80mg ed | 75mg ed | Off | Off | ||||
| 5 | 80 mg ed | 300mg Mon | 80mg ed | 75mg ed | 50mg ed | 40/80/120 | 25/37.5/50 | |||
| 6 | 100 mg ed | 300mg Mon | 80mg ed | 75mg ed | 50mg ed | 120/80/40 | 50/37.5/25 | |||
| 7 | 100 mg ed | 300mg Mon | 80mg ed | 75mg ed | Off | Off | ||||
| 8 | 100 mg ed | 300mg Mon | 80mg ed | 100mg ed | Off | Off | ||||
| 9 | 100 mg ed | 50mg ed | 150mg ed | .25 M/W/F | ||||||
| 10 | 100 mg ed | 50mg ed | 200mg ed | .25 M/W/F | 100mg ed | 120 ed | 50 ed | 50mg ed | ||
| 11 | 100 mg ed | 50mg ed | 200mg ed | .25 M/W/F | 100mg ed | 240 ed | 150 ed | 50mg ed | ||
| 12 | 50mg ed | 50mg ed | 12.5mg ed | 100mg ed | 100mg ed | 80 ed | 50 ed | 100mg ed | ||
| 13 | 50mg | 50mg ed | 12.5mg ed | 75mg | 50mg ed | |||||
| 14 | 250mg |
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I hate to say this but you would be safer running dnp, than combining t3 and clen. That's just asking for trouble.
If it were me I'd say scrap EVERYTHING except test and tren. Then pick one oral var or winny last 6 weeks. No need for anything else. Tren alone plus cardio will cut you up IF YOUR DIET IS RIGHT.
I think you should focus less on what compounds to run and focus more on cleaning up diet and possibly doing some fasted cardio.
Sorry if this seems like I'm bashing on you, but I am only doing it because you are running clen. Stacked with t3 and thats scares me bro. I've run DNP before and clen scares me still. All I will say is think about dropping clen. If not then be careful.
shirlsguyj223, I don't take offense in the least. I'm one week in and so far things are going well. I think that visceral fat is a huge part of my problem, the loose weight is shedding well enough with diet alone, but that pregnant mass centerline of the belly... This is attacking it. Lots of advice warning me but honestly I am on the road already. I will be careful though.
Too many compounds dude WTF?
Scrap this shit and come with something better.
What are ur goals for this cycle?
shirlsguyMight not seem like a lot, but I scratched the whole SUST idea out of the cycle and just got down to business. I'm really trying to leave the long ester test and go to prop for a Tren/Test/Anavar. I just don't enjoy the Cyp like Prop. I tried Tren eod v ed and found ed so much more enjoyable. If I'm going to pin daily, then Prop is as good as anything.
So, that's: SUS chucked out; still going to finish off this opened cyp and then switching to Prop to the end. That's two compounds gone.
That leaves me: Tren-A/Test-P/Anavar ed (strength and mass) and Clen/T3 (fat loss)
I can't chuck out the AI's for PCT.
Have you tried clen and T3 together before bro? Thats gonna fuck yo BP waay up bro...
Ai and PCT??
shirlsguyAI, I have Aromisin and Caber; I am glad I had them too, 'cause it took little to no time to find that I had to take them.
PCT I have Nolva and Clomid; going to run text book.
Clen and T3; this one is tough, brother. Very little support out there for someone like me who chooses it, but I'm holding on pretty well. Am on day 5 and at 100/50 right now with a goal of 120/50 days 7-10 and then taper back down. I have no idea if this is going to be relevant in the end, but I normally have low BP and I mean 120/85 low. So far, it is treating me well, but I'm only five days into my first two week cycle of it; I plan three sets of 2on/2off. It hasn't made me lose sleep (except my first day I took 40/25 late noon) though I do sweat more during workout. I have lost half stone weight with only the pecs taking a hit on size, which is okay because I need to work the upper deck rather than lower.
I am pretty curious on Safety21's input about Clen/T3 as it is a bit diff than I was planning. It's new to me Massive, but I'm working it cautiously.
Yeah man just be careful with that shit theres bin too many dudes here that fucked there shit up with just clen or just T3 let alone both in your case.... Check BP constantly to be safe... If diet is really on point bro IMO u dont need that stuff..but thts just me..
shirlsguyThere is always that fine line between: "He did it" and "It's a damned shame...." I don't want to go out that way, Brother. +1
I think youll be fine if its only clen AT LEAST bro.. But honestly everyone is different...but why risk it ya know?
Thnks bro..
So this cycle above, ur on it already?
AnonT3 can too because T3 raises metabolism and when that goes up BP can as well too my for everyone but it CAN just be careful
shirlsguyYes, part of why it is askew. I planned to keep it simple, you know, medium level test cycle... wanted more and... well, you've heard it all before.
Second cycle? Trying to read threw the comments on where your at. I would not run tren wince your getting.back into this. I would dial in diet. If u have sust awesome. Some people love it some hate it. I would keep it simple. to many people go from a test only cycle to adding five more compounds (this guy right here did it in the past and almosy muffed up my body). There is no reason why you shouldn't.be able to see results from two or three consecutive cycles of just test and an oral. Not bashing ya bro just trying to keep u safe and help u reach your goals. That's why we are all here. Not sure.about your cycle history but some people love 30/30 of oral Var and winny. It's synergetic and can help reduce fat. If u gna run sust use that and then one or both orals at LOW DOSES ONLY. No need to compliment things. Personally I find this the easiest and yet hardest thing to do. Do people cut very well with tren yes but I think with cardio every other day. 12-15 weeks of test and one oral there is no reason why u shouldn't be able to bring bf down. The whole purpose of anabolics is to help aid your progress not do it all for u. No amount of aas will replace 7meals a day, 6-8 hours of sleep and hardwork at the gym. What ai did u use for your cyp cycle. And wht was your pct protocol? Maybe if we tweak that we can prevent bloat
safetyfirst21It looks like you had a few random vials and decided to try to make a cycle out of it.
shirlsguyYes and no. I was originally going to cycle cyp, 600mg/week, but I got maximum bloat with plain expected results. Just my math, if I'm one of those guys who has to take 12.5 aromisin every damned day at medium test cycles, well, then I want more. Anyone can get self-righteous on me, but it is a plain fact that even in this program, we want return on our investment, AND we want results. So, switching it to SUST250 to see if I get less bloat, especially since it is prescription... and yes, because I just happen to have it on hand.
End game, I am switching to a plain jane Tren/Test-P 75/50 ed with Anavar. In the plain jane results of test, I gave tren a trial and I found what I was after. Too early... of course, but then again, I like it and it likes me. It's a good fit.
My belief (just mine) test is really pretty random when on Tren, just keeping the system with some circulating in it. Tren really hogs the receptors so that the test is really just to keep the old endo system with test available as tren does shut down the nads. As such, (my opinion) it makes no sense to have all that test in the system aromatazing, so I'm phasing test esters down to prop.
Clen/T3, well, I'm not going to even try to convince people about it, but it is working just as I wished. In fact, it is exceeding my expectations. It's not so complicated really:
(A)
Tren/Test/Anavar - I want my strength back
Clen/T3 - I want to lose fat fast and while still on cycle
(B)
Aromisin - for Test sides
Caber - for Tren sides
I think you could add one more oral and you forgot to put down equipoise for the hunger increase LOL. Whole cycle stinks bro
shirlsguyThanks for the advice, brother, I will look into your suggestions.
I was being sarcastic about the oral and EQ. You're 45 yrs old and just starting to get back in shape and you've never used gear. I don't care that you are in the EBC that doesn't help your health one bit putting all those compounds in your body and you don't have a clue how your body is going to respond. Just do a test e cycle.
shirlsguyYeah, I'm new to gear, but not new to communication. I caught the sarcasm and honestly that was pretty much a kick in the nads. I know I am way out there for a newb and putting the 'truth' of what I am running is humbling. The orals; it concerns me too, but choosing a successful plan is difficult; feedback would be great, but honestly, "it sux" is not helpful. It does not encourage one to open up.
I did two months of test-c (I consider same as test-e) and while strength gains were nice, it did not deliver what I was after. The one thing it did deliver above my expectations was bloat! Man, does it hit me. Thus, I added to tren and lowered the test. That delivered! So, basically, I have a tren/test cycle with Anavar.
Fat shed really well... for a while. I managed huge losses in the waste while still gaining half stone. But, I want to shed the gut while maintaining the mass. Thus, the Clen/T3.
Is it too much for a newb? Absolutely. Do the two plans work for their own goals? Are proportions correct? What alternatives exist to eliminate an oral?
EBC just pushed me harder, I was on this path already. The Clen/T3 is the questionable part here; only results will define if I chose correctly or not. The Test/Tren... I would not change that for anything. If I had to choose between Tren or nothing, I would go natti again.
I checked your profile and you have pretty awesome dimensions, I am guessing you have better advice than, "it sux" and sarcasm. You're obviously smart 'cause you dialed in on all the orals.
I think the EBC page is a fun page for trash talking, but this is my personal page and it discloses stuff that I am pretty protective of. I would love to think I treat people with enough respect to get some back.
Not trying to be negative, just want you to have a positive outcome and at the rate you're going without the knowledge, experience and research backing your gonna end up very unhappy with results and possibly harm yourself for the long hall. I don't know everything but there are plenty of experienced vets that have seen guys go down the road your headed and they regret it. Starting from baseline you did a test cyp cycle and got bloat which could have been corrected by you AI, diet, or sodium intake so you should have figured out during your cycle what your bloat problem was, but instead you didn't dial it in and want to add more compounds on top of that to lead to more problems you aren't going to know how to handle when you run into them. You see where I'm headed bro, not trying to be a hard ass, there is a reason for beginners protocol and when you don't learn from the vets you learn the hard way.
shirlsguyThis is an answer, thank you. I would love to discuss in pm (FR sent), but this answer leaves a solid base for others to see mistakes and understand. +1 for level headed response.
X2