BigCoachKen's picture
BigCoachKen
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+ 1 Unique Predicament, Help Me Decide

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I am at a crossroads of sorts, and hoping yall can help me decide which path to take. This intro will be lengthy, so you can get an idea of why this easy choice isnt so easy. Last October I had a nerve injury and lost use of my left arm temporarily, this nerve damage left me with severe atrophy of my left triceps and pec. My left delt and lat have also lost some size, but from disuse not neuro factors. Only now, 10 months later Im starting to see some signs of life returning. Both muscles are getting stronger, but hypertrophy will take a long time and the size may never fully return. Now part of nerve healing is energy, calories, so ive been at maintenance since January, literally 240-244 this whole year. Problem is, I have definitely lost muscle, so if weights the same, we all know that means technically I got fatter. In-body scan varies day to day 18-22% BF. So this whole time ive been afraid to diet down, because priority is the use of my arm.
Now that functionality is back and ive been seeing improvements Im going to hop back on cycle. But where im stuck is cut or build? At ~20% bf im too fat, I dont like it. But if I decide to diet down, Im taking away resources from the nerves, and the atrophied muscles that are just now beginning to show improvement after months of rehab. If I decide to bulk, it gives those atrophied muscles a real chance to get back some of their lost size and strength, but we all know fat comes with muscle.

I am leaning towards bulking. I know how to diet down. So as long as I keep the surplus moderate and the food clean, I shouldnt get too fat. And I can strip it off later. Im almost 47yo and am kinda feeling the time crunch. No telling how many more chances Ill have to go beast mode on a blast. If I cut, im basically stopping all progress made on the nerves and affected muscles. They may maintain, but they probably wont improve, basically accepting that my left side will forever be smaller than the right.

I just had labs done, and all health markers are good (except goddamn hematocrit, but I have a plan for that, and doc is working with me). Kidneys, liver, lipids, BP all in line. I did the bodybuilders panel from HelloGoodLabs. Still waiting on test, free t, e2 and igf, but all the basics check out.

"Why is this in the "steroid cycles" forum?" I am considering NPP, and maybe low dose dbol (after some insight from a member here) alongside my test base for bulking. Just classic mass stack. If, big "IF", I decide to cut, that parapharma cut stack with var is intriguing to me. Either way, HGH has already been started and will be run for the duration. Ive also considered just test and tren, not at crazy doses, for a sort of recomp attempt, only thing being I always respond best to choosing a team, diet or grow.

I know its alot, its a unique situation. So I hope some of you veterans will give me honest thoughts. My thought is a good 16 week mass phase, monitor if the recovering muscles respond, then we get lean.

Jockstrap's picture

Cut. Test var is straightforward and var kills appetite. Super anabolic so it holds muscles and adds size. Var the last 6 weeks of cycle. I like 50mg split am pm.

For nerves....you have a pt. Tried tens unit?

BigCoachKen's picture

Yes. I eventually found a specialist, had to pay out of pocket, and he got things rolling the right direction back in March. But from October to March I was getting buttfucked by insurance and "specialists" that dont know shit about my specific type of injury.

Been using tens/ems since onset. PT in the beginning but have transitioned to full lifting cleared by the doc. Things are trending the right way, just nerves are extremely slow.

Im going to use my promo to load up BPC157. After @CLAPPER mentioned it, I did a little digging and it can help with neural regeneration. I tried it before, but seems like my dose wasnt high enough.

I have Var on hand, but will save it, lets see what the diet, gh, and extra test does first.

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Milfpounder's picture

My vote, and take it with a grain of salt is to cut. Easier to cook a meal in a clean kitchen right?

If you don't slash cals to hard you can still recomp to a degree, esp regaining untrained/depleted muscles.

Getting bigger might have you hating the mirror very bad in a hurry. Imagine getting up to 25%? Know what I mean?

Congrats on your progress this far tho coach. Keep it up big dawg.

BigCoachKen's picture

Seems to be the consensus, and yall are right. Like I told Tulane, just kinda getting in my own head, thinking my arm is gonna fall or some shit if I diet LOL

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Milfpounder's picture

If your arm falls off you better post pics here

BigCoachKen's picture

LMAO absolutely!

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Tulane81's picture

Honestly, I don’t think your real choice is “bulk and recover” versus “cut and permanently sacrifice the arm.” That is too binary.

There is no reason to assume that a controlled calorie deficit will stop nerve regeneration. You are carrying roughly 20% body fat, so you are not in an energy-depleted state. More importantly, the returning pec and triceps are essentially detrained muscles receiving improving neural input. That creates a very different situation from trying to build entirely new muscle as an advanced lifter. Muscle memory, renewed recruitment and progressive rehabilitation may allow you to regain meaningful tissue at maintenance or even in a modest deficit.

I would not do an aggressive cut, but I also would not deliberately run a traditional 16-week mass phase from 20% body fat. My choice would be an 8–12 week recomp phase:

Eat around maintenance or use only a small deficit.
Keep protein high and distribute it across the day.
Continue the rehabilitation and carefully progress the affected muscles.
Track waist, weekly average weight, photographs and actual strength, not daily InBody readings.
Have the nerve objectively followed with EMG/nerve-conduction testing if your specialist recommends it.

If strength and muscle thickness are returning while your waist is slowly decreasing, you have your answer. You can then decide whether a short growth phase is warranted from a healthier starting body-fat level.

I would also take the hematocrit issue more seriously than “everything looks good except hematocrit.” That is one of the markers most likely to become worse when exposure increases. I would want the cause evaluated and the number demonstrably controlled before adding more compounds especially before considering a stack involving testosterone, NPP and an oral. Tren is not a clever recomp solution to a neurological rehabilitation problem, either; it adds substantial risk without guaranteeing that a partially reinnervated muscle can respond.

At 47, I understand the feeling that the clock is running, but that is an argument for preserving health and maximizing the recovery window not forcing a “beast-mode” blast while one arm is still neurologically recovering.

My vote: maintenance-to-slight-deficit recomp, progressive rehab, objective nerve testing and no escalation until the hematocrit is genuinely addressed. Reassess after 8–12 weeks. You may be surprised how much of the lost size returns without accepting another significant increase in body fat.

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BigCoachKen's picture

Thank you for taking the time to reply in depth. Im reading these responses so far, and it does seem like the answer is what you stated. Sometimes we (I) just get in our own head, and have to hear it from outside looking in. And you are absolutely right, I have enough energy stored to on me right now to facilitate the continued nerve healing process.

I am on trt dose right now, and may simply bump that up a little. The HCT has been my only issue my entire life, I think its genetic but doctors say there are no mutations. However, we have found something that may be the cause, and Ill address that before starting any major cycle.

I certainly dont like being this fat, still kinda jacked but so soft.

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bamboo2112's picture

HGH does wonders but you need to take some time off.
Let your body recover and see where you are 3 months after the Gold kicks in
Been there done that
yeah, it sucks but life isn't easy

bamboo2112's picture

A real good tens unit or two will do wonders with LR3
Worst case scenario is to make both arms the same size
Hey, nobody gonna notice
you already know this or your partner has told you many times

BigCoachKen's picture

Been using EMS therapy the whole 10 months. There was a point where I couldnt even flex the arm, the only thing that could contract the muscle was external signal
Nobody notices,, excpet me. And that mirror is a motherfucker LOL

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bamboo2112's picture

Did you talk to more than one neurosurgeon or did the insurance say PT until it falls off or he dies ?

BigCoachKen's picture

Its a long story, but after being sent to two neurologists who know fuck-all about what I was dealing with, I had to find a real specialist on my own dime. He was able to diagnose and create a recovery plan. Unfortunately, there is no real way to speed up nerve healing. Turning the signal back on after crush injury can be as slow as 1mm a month.

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bamboo2112's picture

You have the rest of your life.
keeping the nerve active will stop it from dying
Work on the things that make you happy
Tonight watch Hot Tub Time Machine
what do people say?
when some legs close another mouth opens
If this is not in your head get some until it is

bamboo2112's picture

Even the guy with the bad arm rocks on Bro

CLAPPER's picture

I wouldn’t lean into doing a full blown cycle yet. Perhaps adjusting training, cut slightly, and maybe use healing peptides to aid in the recovery.

Like someone else said, bulking on cycle at 20% bf is never a good idea.

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BigCoachKen's picture

Im definitely weighing everything carefully. Utilized peps at the beginning, by the effects only go so far with nerves. I thought ara-290 would do something, but it didnt move the needle for me, its not real affective on peripheal nerves.

You are right though, bulking at 20% is asking for health issues.

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Pipeliner47's picture

Nandrolone will drive up that hematocrit like a son of a gun. Dbol too. Double whammy. Careful

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BigCoachKen's picture

My doc and I think we have found the root cause, so it will be addressed before starting that cycle if its the route I choose

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OscarWildwood's picture

Can you elaborate on what you suspect your HCT root cause is? I’ve had a similar issue with mine staying elevated as I’ve gotten older.

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BigCoachKen's picture

I dont know how in depth youve gotten with testing with your doctor, so I wont get too specific.

Mines been a struggle my whole life, weve done a laundry of tests for disease and genetic possible causes. But there are a couple of other less common tests yet to be done. You can ask your doctor about the following, assuming youve hit all the common tests.
-JAK2 is a common test (tested negative), but there are other JAK tests that can be ordered.
-Test for carbon monoxide exposure. A low amount over a long period of time can have your body producing RBCs
-Test P50, this is the amount of oxygen your hemoglobin actually releases into the blood. Low P50, the oxygen isnt released and your body thinks its deprived, so it produces RBCs
-There can be cysts on the kidneys, harmless by themselves but can cause the kidneys to overproduce EPO, the signal to the marrow to produce more RBCs

Hope this puts you on the right track, but Im not a medical professional

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Massa Ron's picture

I don’t see a tough decision here. At 20% body fat, your only option is to cut. This is my $.02.

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BigCoachKen's picture

i know, it seems so obvious. But when my good arm is nearly 19", and the atrophied one is 15", its not that simple in my head. Trust me, i do not like that BF number

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bamboo2112's picture

Why on earth do they come here looking for validation!
Next, you will be yelling "PUT ME IN COACH"