Researching first real cycle
I introduced myself yesterday as a 64 year old man who has had some recent success in reducing my body fat while gaining some muscle in the process. I've been on a "cycle" of 200MG of test cyp for the past 8 weeks and I am ready to ramp things up. I've lost 31 pounds of fat and gained about 10 pounds of muscle over the past 5 months, adhering to a 1300-1600 calorie diet while working out 90 minutes a day, 6 days a week.
My current body fat percentage is 22% and my goal is to get down to 12-14%. However, I want to take a break from my calorie deficit diet and hopefully add some significant muscle over the next 4 months. Then I'll do another serious round of calorie deficit dieting.
My next step is to get my RMR calculated next week. I am getting the test done at the UC Davis medical school. They have a practice dedicated to this area. Once I get my RMR results, my nutritionist recommends that I increase my calories 200-400 points over my RMR to give more fuel to muscle growth. I will monitor my weight, etc. Much of the advice I have received is along the lines of "Hey, your an old dude, just be happy and chill with some lower testosterone". To which I say, fuck that, this ship is going to launch. My blood work is great - no PSA, cholesterol or any other warning signs. I've been on TRT for over a decade and have pinned myself 100s of times. I will continue to be on TRT the rest of my life.
I want to go on a cycle to gain muscle for 4 months and then cut again. The key issue for me is the decision on what steroid to pair with testosterone for muscle growth and also whether I should move testosterone from 200MG a week to 400MG a week for this cycle. I just got my testosterone results yesterday. My SHBG score was 29 and my TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL was 560. I had a 9 day gap between the blood draw and my testosterone injection. I am aware that my total testosterone would have been higher had I got tested closer to my injection.
I will continue to research this question. There are some great 1st cycle posts on this site. Any advice is appreciated.
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It seems like you want to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time.
Why do I say this? This approach will help you learn how to effectively manage your steroid cycle using supportive compounds like SERMs and AIs. It will allow you to reduce fat and avoid potential side effects that might arise if you include other AAS in your cycle. Keep in mind that managing a cycle with additional AAS requires different control methods and other corrective medications, which means you'll have to handle additional challenges.
I think you need to identify your goals clearly and avoid trying to achieve mutually exclusive goals at the same time.
Thanks Crazy Dozer! I definitely had a solid gameplan on May 30th to lose fat and hopefully retain muscle. I was fortunate to have some gains during this period. I want to make very strategic moves for my next steps.
I am getting my resting heart rate RMR done next Wednesday. What I would like to do is consume 200-400 calories above my RMR for 12 weeks and focus on muscle growth. I do not think I'll gain fat because I'm doing cardio in the morning and have a rigorous lifting plan. At the end of this period I would do another fat loss cut. I think the advice here of staying on testosterone is the right call.
To everyone who commented and gave advice yesterday - thank you!
I realize I was super excited over my recent DEXA results and I can also seem my April 1st to current pictures and I am really excited for what is next. When I first signed up at the local gym for weight training, the owner asked me what my goals were and I said to be able to get off the ground after playing with my grandkids. At that time, I only committed to a month to month contract because I had little confidence I would stick with the program. Now I want to add more testosterone with some Primo because I want to get jacked. It's pretty funny. I will definitely move slower and get better data before making any decision. Thanks again!
9 day gap shouldn’t exist on cyp IMO in the first place. You don’t have accurate bloods to make an educated decision.
Switch to at least twice per week injections. Get stable bloods and don’t draw at the absolute lowest point. A lot of people draw at trough to justify higher dosage. Just figure out what you are at stable blood levels and adjust from there.
You could be a non responder and need more exogenous test, but highly doubtful 200mg of cyp doesn’t bring you to at the very least upper bound testosterone levels. Mid 500s would be very unlikely. Your shbg is fine.
At 63 and 22% body fat you don’t need superphysiological higher levels of test. You say you’ve made great progress already for 5 months which is 3 months before you even started 200mg of test. And going onto running superphysiological levels for another 4 months (6 month total) just sounds like an unnecessary risk.
What are your goals? What’s your endgame here? To me you seemed to say you were already achieving at an incredible pace. Why are you messing with your protocol when you are living the dream already?
I’m not trying to be a dick here I just a little confused at your motivation. It sounds more like your mind is fixated on more is better where I see you’ve kind of probably already have it on lock.
I think you make some really good points. The reality is I am probably looking for results too quickly. I've seen great results and I want more. I also agree on pinning twice a week and getting more accurate blood work. My guess is I will be closer to the 1000 range with my blood work. I need to suck it up and pay for my own labs to get a more precise number so I can make better decisions. I am able to get full blood panels every 3 months through my regular insurance, which is great. But then I am deceiving my primary care doctor with my test results in order to get free testosterone...
Hi Buddy, first of all let me congratulate you on your success so far - I have nothing but admiration and respect for guys still wanting to improve themselves and set goals to accomplish as they get older, I hope I am still able to do this at your age. Sounds like you have done brilliantly so far in losing Fat and gaining some muscle. I know some other members on here at your age, and @flounder is a little older but does the same kind of training and injecting I believe. It is true that ideally to gain muscle you should raise your calories a little as it is hard to diet and gain muscle simultaneously. My opinion is that if your bloodwork is looing good - Lipids, Liver, Kidneys, Blood all within range then up your Test to 400mg/wk and if you want more of a bulk going on then 300mg/wk of NPP together with the test, or you could go with Primo for a leaner look and it may also be a little safer. Always make sure your BP and HR are okay too as those parameters are less tolerable as you get older and things can go wrong quicker if too high.
Keep Happy and Positive mate and let us know how you get on or what you decide to do
Probably not what you want to hear:
No you should not 'ramp it up'. Stay on trt or the 200mg 'cycle' (if you keep doing bloodtests), you're 63 years old smh. Also your bodyfat is way too high to be using 400mg test, chances are this will cause problems.
200mg test and a good diet + good training program is plenty to look better than 99.9% of the men your age.
Honestly before you even think about taking more steroids you should get your bodyfat in the 12% range.
Also why is there a 9 day gap between your injections? Thats a sub-optimal injection frequency. This tells me you do not know what you're doing.
No offense bro, but: It’s not that he doesn’t know what he is doing, cuz doctor prescribed trt is often 200mg every 2 weeks. He is here asking for advise from this forum cuz this group has way more experience, research, and knowledge than most primary care doctors.
I agree with everything else that u posted.
I’m now 69 years old and take 140mg of test/week. I really like micro dosing at about 45mg 3 time a week using 1 ml slins. I was using 180 mg/week but my labs ,24 hours after pin was 1460 ug/dl total t which I consider to high so I dropped the dose. I prefer to be at the high normal total t range.
My biggest advise is to dial in ur diet. At least 1 gram of protein/ lb of body weight. For me that is 200 gram at 40gm per meal/5 times a day….EVERY DAY!!! plus hydration at least 1 gallon of pure water throughout the day. It will take a few months but the above will get u much leaner with more muscle fullness.
I do not recommend adding anymore test until u dial in ur diet.
Hi DavosD,
Thanks for the feedback. I purposely waited 9 days to take my blood test because I did not want my TRT to be too high. I get 200ML of test cyp prescribed for free and did not want to jeopardize this. Please refrain from negative comments like, "I don't know what I am doing". Clearly I am in the Beginner Cycle section. If I knew everything I would not be here.
So yes you have no clue what you're doing. You barely scratched tbe surface of what 200mg test can do and you think you need more already.
And respectfully I will say whatever the fuck I want.
Yes you can say whatever you want anonymous web person. I agree that it is best for me to be very cautious and not be in a hurry on these things.
Good man
SternoHonest & open to advice +1 ⭐️