+ 1 Deca only?
https://youtu.be/8AisKoiIRmg
Hopefully I'm ok in posting this link, I claim no responsibility, copyrights, no financial benefit by doing so.
Ok, I've been seeing this more and more. There was an Eroids member a few months back that was about to do this, very high Deca with no testosterone. I'm curious on how it's working out. I friended him and should do some follow up. Personally I like the compound. My bloods come back good, I keep it simple, 500mg test, 250mg deca. The joint relief is amazing as I'm pretty banged up. I'm not looking to lose my TRT protocol as it gave me my life back, but I'd love to hear some others experiences with Nandrolone. I'm not a short ester guy for anything, as I've learned I have a sensitivity to the solvents, but please comment if you're a NPP guy. Thanks and be well.
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Not much of a science guy here but from personal experience via my colleagues, they have to also supplement with estradiol because the deca solo only converts to a different estrogen I think called estrone. Estradiol they said is what is the protective estrogen for good health. The like deca only but have to supplement with estradiol and make sure their e2 is good with monthly bloodwork
Manateeswimmer5678Hey bro, I wouldn't consider that as 19nors have been shown to be much more destructive to arterioles in comparison to testosterone. Also you're gonna need the estrogen via the aromatase conversion in order to maintain a healthy heart, brain, blood values, and overall health. Estrogen is one of the most important hormones for us men and you can see the side effects of not having enough from people who crash their e2 via too much ai
Molinin302Yeah, it's not my style for sure, was very curious though. I do like deca though, I get full and joints feel great. Lipids stay pretty good, but I'm very careful about how I treat myself while running it. I'm getting ready to give shorter esters a go again in a few more weeks. Sust, but I'm going to microdose it. I'm pretty sure the issues I had before were source related.
Decade only cycle? Not if its gonna be longer than 5 weeks.
Why? Because you run out of estrogen. Only reason.
https://youtu.be/kLScNddgkks
I like how this dude used a estrogel to combat that issue!
Deca has bad effects on the Prostate - it's like a credit card - use now - pay later.
I actually loved it - great gains, but I have about 5 vials sitting in my gear drawer and will never use it again - because it is not good for your long term health.
Now ya have it! I was talking about this 3 years back! Awesome. +s for sharing
Found this online below! I'm not preaching it.. Soo.. No need to yell or argue at me about it! Just interesting info....
Has a few interesting science links behind it:
"There are a few people who do Deca only!!" Although they run finasteride when doing so!
Why take finasteride???? The penis requires androgenic stimulation, which unfortunately you cannot get with Nandrolone. Hence why people run high dose Testosterone with Nandrolone to counteract the sex side effects, the concentration of DHT from the testosterone has to be significantly higher than DHN from nandrolone so that DHN does not displace DHT from the receptor.
So how do we solve this issue? Im against running high testosterone with nandrolone. But there is a cure!
run 0.5mg-1mg Finasteride with your Nandrolone cycle everyday. This will inhibit a good portion of DHN. Results in 50% increase in androgenic activity and optimal stimulation of androgen receptors in androgenic tissue. This cures deca dick problem, it resolves psychological arousal (due to optimal androgen receptor stimulation in the brain)
But we are left with some issues. Once you do this, your skin will instantly get oily as fuck, you'll have acne out of no where and you lose some of the benefits of DHN. Plus, you want to fuck 24/7 and your dick agrees with you also. It seems like the dopaminergic issues resolve after the brain androgen receptors are optimally stimulated without DHN (as nandrolone will act as the parent agonist, without DHN antagonising Nandrolone).
Also, gyno symptoms would also disappear due to breast tissue estrogen receptor is antagonised by Nandrolone (no DHN to stop this).
Soo.... if we inhibit the formation of DHN, then nandrolone does not metabolise to a piss ass weak androgen in these local tissues (DHN works to antagonise nandrolones true androgenic potency as well, hence DHN actually reduces prostate size, and restores hair growth). With 5-AR inhibition, DHN does not get produced when nandrolone crosses local 5-AR tissues and thus instead would activate those local receptors much more potently.
I know.. I know.. People ask:
How will cutting out DHN increase androgenicity if there is no DHT in the system (no test). Presumably because Nandrolone itself is an agonist at DHT receptors?
Because its the same androgen receptors everywhere. there is nothing special about androgen receptors in 5-AR expressed tissues (like hair follicles), other than that those particular tissues have 5-AR enzyme expressed - So when a substrate for 5-AR comes along to those particular areas, the 5-AR will react and reduce the androgen (testosterone in this case) to DHT. DHT binds tightly to the androgen receptor, and doesn't really like 'moving' away from the area it has been created. Here, DHT has 2-3x the binding affinity than testosterone, so it tends to take preference for the local androgen receptor, and exerts 10x the signalling, once bound.
Every anabolic steroid has an anabolic and androgenic profile. Trenbolone can bind to the same receptors as DHT, and stimulate it. Same as Anavar. Except Anavar is pretty weak in doing so.
When you take Nandrolone. it will float around and come across these tissues where 5-AR is expressed. here, nandrolone will reduce to DHN, DHN will bind to the receptor. This lowers the androgenic potency of nandrolone because of DHN's competition for the receptor - DHN is a weak androgen, nandrolone would still exert its anabolic response in muscle tissue (for example). When 5-AR is inhibited, nandrolone's true androgenic potency comes to light, and is able to bind to these receptors without competition.
Boom.. No deca Dick!!
Some interesting sources
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6643280800003X
"Sub-chronic nandrolone treatment modifies neurochemical and behavioral effects of amphetamine and 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) in rats"
"Analysis of the behavioral data suggests that effects of the amphetamine and MDMA are dose-dependently attenuated by AAS-treatment, paralleling DA results. In conclusion, the results of this study show that AAS-pre-treatment is able to modulate the reward-related neurochemical and behavioral effects of amphetamine and MDMA."
[2] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...9.00439.x/full
"Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on Gene Expression in Endocrine Systems Related to the Adverse Effects of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids" - This one is very interesting, it shows what enzyme systems Nandrolone downregulates and which ones are upregulated. Very very important information
[3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6007601500014X
"Prolonged in vivo administration of testosterone-enanthate, the widely used and abused anabolic androgenic steroid, disturbs prolactin and cAMP signaling in Leydig cells of adult rats" - "The results showed that prolonged (10-weeks) intramuscular administration of testosterone-enanthate, in clinically relevant dose, significantly increased prolactin"
[4] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...0.01402.x/full
"The anabolic-androgenic steroid nandrolone decanoate affects the density of dopamine receptors in the male rat brain"
[5] https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...04394003013685
"Increased dopamine transporter density in the male rat brain following chronic nandrolone decanoate administration"
[6] https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...06899305003641
"The effect of sub-chronic nandrolone decanoate treatment on dopaminergic and serotonergic neuronal systems in the brains of rats"
Just some calculations.
lets take the following into consideration.
Nandrolone is a weak substrate for SHBG. So, overall, it is a much better anabolic than testosterone, even if you take the 125:37 vs 100:100 profile into consideration. therefore, there is more nandrolone per mg exogenously administered 'free' to bind to androgen receptors, than is testosterone per mg exogenously administered.
Nandrolone aromatises at the rate of 20% of Testosterone.
Lets say, we produce equivalent to 70mg/wk Testosterone enanthate. Taking the molecular mass of the ester into account, you would need an optimal 500-600mg NPP (or deca) per week to produce a decent amount of estrogen (but still within limits) - remember, you need neither high or low amount of estrogen for optimal mental and dick health - we also have to take into consideration the fact of how the androgenic potency of an anabolic would also act to oppose estrogen at the estrogen receptor.
Those who have done DECA only cycles and have complained about deca-dick - here is the only and only reason:
You didnt front load deca. so what occured is that the first 4-5 weeks whilst the ester is peaking in the blood, you arent getting sufficient blood androgen levels (levels not high enough to provide optimal androgen and estrogen signalling).
and/or you arent taking suffice dose. If you arent taking testosterone with your nandrolone, it makes logical sense to use more nandrolone (500-600mg/wk)
Finally, people will shout out! What about "Prolactin" issues? Well, the whole idea of using a dopamine agonist initially was due to some prolactin issue people were assuming they were encountering. But it seems like those who encountered such problem (along with high estrogen) were the people who combined "testosterone with nandrolone". As nandrolone and exogenous testosterone increase prolactin almost equally. Perhaps the combination causes a synergism in the increase of prolactin?
But, as some of the studies i quoted, it seems like nandrolone (along with trenbolone), alter dopaminergic transmission . And by using a dopamine agonist, it may negate any problem that this 'disbalance' could cause.
RustyhookerAnd you realize dht gives you that rock hard boner? And fina blocks dht. Hmmm.....
Kinda goes back to the okd folks like viking preaching to USE a strong dht on a deca cycle. Keep your body drier and literally harder... giggeddy.
Fina has sides as well. I like simple masteron. Or mast provi if needed in combo for goals
Mast and Proviron on top, purely to assist with the DHT side of things without having to deal w/ testosterone would def be beneficial.
RustyhookerIts taken me a lotta playing with to not be too dry. Other folks, not so much. Get those bloods going and it will be a fun experiment. Map the body
Molinin302Masteron is on my list of things of intrest. Not necessarily for it's cutting properties (I doubt I could get my bodyfat low enough to reap the benefits without killing someone lol) but for it's very beneficial side effects. It's an intriguing compound.
RustyhookerI like that it assists as a blocker and keeps me a bit dryer. But im gonna give it a go on a nor run soon without mast and run low dose dbol. Cell volumizer and enjoy a good strength boost. I can add in later as/if needed.
Old favorite winter run was a simple low run of test and 15mg dbol split every 4 hrs with protein/ carb rich meal. Low enough i had no sides but the pumps and strength were sure fun.
Molinin302Now see, that sounds like a fun, feel good run to me. Keep us posted.aside from the cramps, I'm a fan of the Dbol, I just have to keep the dosage very reasonable.
RustyhookerAgree! 15mg and i felt great, strength boosted, no sides with a puny 300mg pharma test. Week 5 might suggest half dose if lag kicks in for a mintute as dbols short life. I jammed up strong coffe but either will help. Small simlle and enjoyed it. At 500 maybe lil aro as needed. E2 assists is gains within reason. Crashed e2 hslts the gsins and feel crunchy. Finding the balance is key
Molinin302Another couple weeks and I'll be ready, going to feva short cut run. First time with new compounds so I want to see how I react. First run with NPP and I'll be pinning sust in smaller doses but very frequently along with masteron. I purchased Equipoise, is like to add it towards the end after I'm done with the NPP to harden up. Thoughts? I'm sure it needs some tweaking. I'll be following my usual dosages but shorter esters, 15-20mg dianabol for 3-4 weeks depending on sides, 500mg test weekly 200mg cyp TRT, 300mg sust ED subq microdosed, with masteron at 300mg weekly.
Skip the equipoise at the end. Needs to be run for longer periods. Plus with equipoise in there too many compounds. Just my two cents. Stay safe buddy.
x 2 - The E.Q needs to be run for a Long time to get hardness from it. Plus you don't need any more added blood pressure on top of what you are already running bud which is what you will quickly end up with.
Molinin302Thanks guys, much appreciated!
RustyhookerThey got ya correct! Easy npp run was 500sust 300npp. Can adjust as you like or tweak to your bloods and priors. Good pumps and nice growth. Wasnt crazy big.
Molinin302That's doable, thanks big guy
Good post bro! Very interesting
Whats up fellas lately i been seeing the usual deca or npp but also deca cypionate and eq cypionate is this better than traditional deca ? And are you supposed to go by the dosage guidelines of regular deca 250? Thanks for the knowledge
RustyhookerCheck half lives out. Your asking about a chemical but its the half life that matters.
I know... I know... Before you scream crazy at me guys! I'm just the messanger not the culprit!
look at this case study from "ANABOLIC DOC" below & links from coach's & gurus! I may give DECA only or DECA & only 100mg of TEST CYP a week a try too!
https://youtu.be/8AisKoiIRmg
https://www.taeian.com/deca-base-cycle-no-testosterone-no-sides/
https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDsR/comments/812n58/nandrolone_deca_dick_real...
Deca only cycle with no decent amount of test with it - that would feel bloody awful. Same as tren with low test - The test is where you get all your energy and power from and feel good factor.
eddoDeca only or Deca Dbol was THE cycle of the 70s. Back then before A.I. drugs,guys tended to avoid test due to the aromatisation.
I’ve never tried myself but apparently sex drive didn’t completely disappear, maybe the Dbol helped with that?
I just got off a similar cycle of 500 test 275 deca total weekly pined to times per week and 50 mg anavar 25 twice a day at 25 mg with a kick start of npp and a taper of npp. My right shoulder had been bothering me so I delayed the cycle for months. Finally just did it anyway and within less than two weeks if felt fine and still does to this day. Had good results for conditions I was under. Was happy with it also tapered with test prop and started my pct 3 days after last injection. Feel like is going pretty well. Also was on 7 IU HGH split 2 times per day. Water retention wasn’t bad. No real noticeable moon face at those levels
Both deca and npp do me great. I do as you do also a 2:1 ratio usually 500:250 600:300.. for me it really gets me looking full and gain much more than test alone. My first cycle way back in day before I knew anything was deca Norma the blue in whites. Shut my ass down hard haha did make some gains but was not a good experience what so ever. Npp I prefer over deca because I like my gear in and out except for the test. I like mixing npp with cyp because it helps smoothen it out. Npp for me is pretty painful, deca is very smooth imo. Nandrolone is very responsive for me so I don't have to take in very high dose typically 300 a week npp
Molinin302Been thinking of giving the NPP a go next run. I'm curious and I've heard nothing but good things. Thanks for the feedback bro
Alphamale500Bullshit bro, you're doing this for financial gain and I fuckn know it! Jk, LOL! Only fuckn around bro! Anyway, when you say that you have sensitivity with short esters, what exactly do you mean? Because some short esters of certain compounds fuck with me too, and I get some anxiety type symptoms. But I always figured it was due to my anxiety disorder. But then again, why would just the short esters affect my anxiety, you know. Idk!!
Npp doesn't fuck with me though, and in fact, I love Npp and it's one of my all-time favorite AAS compounds. And I realize that both Npp and Deca are the same compound Nandrolone. But Npp seems to have a slightly different(better I think) quality to it, as some of you probably agree. But in regards to running Deca without test, it just doesn't make sense to me. With Deca, Npp, or any AAS, you really need testosterone as the base, imo. There's really just one way that I think it's possible to run Deca without also running test as the base!
When I was doing HCG monotherapy with my endocrinologist @225iu M-W-F, it brought my total test levels up into the mid-800ng/dl range. I guess this method also depends on how well your body responds to HCG. By using HCG in place of test, I would then think it's possible to run Deca and get some very good results. You don't need very high testosterone levels to get good results from the Deca. All you need is enough testosterone to keep your body functioning properly.
A couple of added benefits of using HCG instead of test, is the sides you'll avoid from the test, an the added fertility/testicular benefits. Of course the HCG will raise your e2 levels and you might need an A.I., but if you ran test you would likely need one anyway. Btw, it may be possible to do the same type of thing with Clomid in place of the HCG. Again, all depending on how your body responds to it.
Molinin302I'm still a little green with these things, and it may be the lab I use mix. Could be the short ester, could be the solvents, but I've tried a few different bottles and the pip was awful. A couple times a rash. Looks like the same carrier oil as the other products I use from him that are smooth as butter. And I hooked a friend up with the vials I had and he had no issues whatsoever. It's probably just me.
Alphamale500Oh, so that's all you get though is like injection site problems. I thought maybe you were getting something that I get sometimes with certain short esters. I get bad anxiety sometimes when I inject some short esters, but I'm pretty sure it's due to my anxiety disorder, but I don't know exactly what's going on.
I had a Friend had a bottle good brand npp and the oil caused him a not. Think it contained EO and I think the lab changed oils but still couldn have been you issue.. Npp is pretty painful though, I always mix it
Decca is fine and it's great for joints and connective tissue, but I wouldn't use it without Test. Also watch prolactin levels.
Something I've really noticed lately with NPP is with some Labs I get a slightly winded lethargic feeling when using it and other labs I simply don't - almost halfway between the tren winding lol Anyone else get this too?
Deca is garbage
Alphamale500I don't agree that deca is garbage, I actually love the Nandrolone compound! But I have recently read that the Nandrolone compound itself does cause some very serious, and even deadly arterial and other cardiovascular issues and disease. This was in an article that was explaining the real root of how Nandrolone causes ED problems, and the other cardiovascular issues I mentioned. I'm sure some of you read about it right? If not, I'll write a post about it.
I just had a ekg and a ultra sound on my heart. I asked the doctor if I had a enlarged heart and to be sure. I don’t have that but however the ekg shows that I have a athletic heart. Said that’s nothing to worry about.
Alphamale500That's good news for you! But I never said everyone who uses Nandrolone will get these cardiovascular issues. I was just mentioning an article and study which I've read. Matter of fact, this just reminded me that I have to get that posted! But that's good, you haven't been affected.
But you do have athletic heart syndrome (AHS) you said right? They say that's not even a medical condition, but rather just normal changes that occur in the hearts of ppl who take part in intense athletic training. So I guess this kinda proves that you certainly don't fuck around in the gym, LOL!
Alphamale500.
Molinin302Please share
Deca & NPP are known to be pretty bad for your cardiovascular system bud, I'd still class it as one of the more friendlier steroids you can take though. Even Test regularly above 500mg will caused an enlarged & thickened heart in the end.
Alphamale500Will do, just give me a lil!
Why do you say that?
NPP is better, hell, do you know my boy Tren? Deca makes me bloat like I’m a sumo wrestler.
I hear you. Of course tren will be more powerful in effect but I seem to get injured more on tren, and it’s shit for my relationship.
Deca can be a great builder, or cutter if you monitor your electrolytes but the mineral retention is going to vary based on individuals. I love the extra fluid in the joints, get the boost in sex drive without the rapey violence i get from tren.
I’m actually on deca only right now and it’s juuuust starting to kick in. The pumps in the gym are hardening up and I caught view of my back and it’s really filling out. Had a few random boners from some damn latina that started doing bent over stretches on the treadmill right in front of my face. Best part is I’m pinning once a week. Sunday night I hit 4-6 cc’s and that’s it for the week. (Except a little injectable dbol and gh on my lagging body part days)
I just never had any luck with deca... I like to stay somewhat lean. Deca give me a fishbowl face and I hate it. Regardless of my diet. Yes I know my compounds and Tren is far superior than the rest. If you can handle it.
Molinin302Sooner or later I may give the tren a run, I'm honestly afraid of the toxicity. I handle dianabol well though, but this may not be a good comparison. Shit, I've always looked out for myself, even when I was a degenerate, alcohol raised my liver values much more than any gear I've ran. Regardless, aside from the bloating (fat fucker lol), what don't you like? Would it be cool to PM you with a couple tren questions? I'm interested in GH, but holding off till I hit 50. Although I like the look, I'm actually in all this for life extension. I'm shooting for 150, like one of those wrinkled foreigners, but with less wrinkles. Not afraid of dying, I'm just enjoying the show.
Ask away bro but why GH until 50?