posted Thu, 01/16/2020 - 04:00
4360
+ 1 Baseline testosterone numbers
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So I decided to have my doc check test levels, mainly cause I'm 53 and just don't have the zip I used to, aches and pains and all that. It came back at 368, which he says is "normal". So I am on my own as far as he is concerned. I have test cyp ready to go. Any thoughts on where my numbers should be to improve quality of life and help in the gym? I am 5'6..148 and tend to be fairly lean. 368 seems low to me (I tried to get more details like estrogen, free test and all that, but the lab work didn't cover that). Thanks!
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Train heavyAF & get rest! Lay out in the sun a little, eat pussy, & eat BIG! Your natty test will go up!
My opinion is that you are in low range of normal.
Of coarse many will talk about diet and that is true for one of your two goals. Which is help in the gym.
The one you mentioned first, which is probably more important to you is your quality of life, which I would say can be improved by getting you in the medium to high normal range. I find that I feel great at around 600 give or take. Go see a specialist and get their opinion. I feel you might be a good candidate and it might be beneficial for you to seek input from a different professional who might be able to offer you some help. I know I feel much better at 600 than I would at your 368 you mentioned.
Good luck.
Appreciate the input. I think what can get missed is the fact that, when getting into a workout routine is riddled with problems (pain, injury, ridiculous recovery times, etc.) the concept of increasing test levels through exercise is not possible. it's a nonstarter, and not due to a lack of effort. In fact, an increase in effort exacerbates these issues, bringing things to a standstill over and over. it is encouraging to hear from people who can vouch through experience that their quality of life has been improved by having levels in the "medium to high normal range".
That's complete and utter bullshit. Argue for your limitations and you're sure to succeed. Although your numbers aren't that of a 20 year old they are normal nonetheless. Sleep, diet, exercise, even if it's walking, all contribute to increase your levels. I've been where you are and it does work.
You are suffering from the lure of the silver bullet. The siren call of AAS has gotten to you. You are trying to convince yourself, and us, that this is your only viable solution, "Woe is me, It looks as if I must bear this TRT cross" (heavy sigh)
Get help..soon.
Alphamale500You really don't know when to keep your big mouth shut, and just listen to good advice that knowledgeable ppl are trying to give you! Smfh! And FYI, do a google search and see how training can increase your testosterone levels, especially when training large muscle groups such as legs! Here's some information you can read just to get acquainted with this subject:
https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/7-exercises-naturally-increas...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2796409/
https://www.piedmont.org/living-better/the-best-exercises-to-increase-te...
Sorry to burst your bubble kid. But I've walked that path already and played those same tapes in my head.
See and work with an endo doc. Hire a trainer. Five or so years from now you might actually have low levels and can start scripted TRT and be all the better for it. There are a lot of down sides to trying to regulate what your body can do naturally.
AnonYeah I hate it when people call me out too.
Darn reality!
I understand and can totally vouch. Though I have made plenty of mistakes in my early life and often "pay the price" later. I went a whole year with my PCP trying different drugs and even holistic ways to boost my T after my body shut down at a earlier than normal, being it was from my own abuse. It was a terrible year to say it nicely.
Since my TRT started my quality of life has drastically improved in just about every aspect. Physical, mental, sexual, and staying in shape has been more easily to obtain. I know many here would advise against it being you are in the normal range, and I respect the members on here. They usually have your best interest in mind even though they come off like complete assholes. Excuse my french.
I for one finally got a doc to work with me and have not one regret.
Some live long, some don't. Its quality over quantity for me. Im here for a good time, not a long time. I have nothing but positive things to say about TRT besides getting sick of pinning myself twice a week.
I think you should listen to Rusty. Concentrate on food, workout, sleep etc. Try a natural Test booster like Tribulis Terrestis then if all that is insufficient see if you can find a cooperate Doc.
RustyhookerWHYS THIS NEGGED? HE WENT TO DR....HES ASKING QUESTIONS!
5-6 and 158 can be as simple as your diet first. Not gear. Post your daily macros and normal workout. Whats your main goals here?
^^ I agree with this for sure! Diet is key, and hormone only work if the diet, exercise, rest and sleep are all on track!!
Actually 148..so I'm not overweight by any means. Diet: @2000 calories a day, typical American diet (not clean). workouts: Stretching..walking...lifting includes:
2x per week
Bench: 3 sets 8-10
flys: 2x 5
overhead press: 3 sets 8-10
leg press/extensions: 3x 8-10 reps
Also walk/ride bike 3-4 times per week.
Goals: Feel better, increase strength, be able to increase weights without being injured (yes, i do try to increase slowly, but it appears, at this age, it backfires.if you aren't there yet, you will see for yourself when you get there).
Reducing bodyfat too, of course.
Exercise is at a standstill, increase inevitibly is halted by injury..over and over.
I do know when I ran test, dbol, tren..the only 3 I have tried, I was able to work through these plateaus.
I do suspect that raising test levels (368) to a median level of normal @700 would help with these issues. That's why I came here. Simple.
Been there and saw no such thing. Squats are the only thing I need to worry about. Form and trying to lift too much were reasons for any injuries I had when I first started lifting.
Don't lift more than you can do at least 5 reps of... rep until failure and tapper down the weights. Add a high protein diet and you'll put on muscle, more muscle mass = higher test levels.
Even with AAS you still need to put in the work, odds are, you'll also be more prone to over doing it and causing yet more injuries.
Edit: you're workout is cardio only, not muscle building... you're one of "those guys" at the gym who go just for bragging rights that they go to a gym.
RustyhookerYour calories and workout wont advance you at all. Thats the flaws to fix. The workouts alone arent even at a beginners level.
Bro.. go to a doctor and have them check you out. Reasons why:
1). The testosterone is legal and 100% pharma grade
2). You will not have to guess on what are “normal “ numbers.
3). Most often it’s covered by insurance.
4). You will not be jacking up your body trying to figure out what - your body needs.
5). You will get prescribed meds to control estrogen
6). The CORRECT labs will be taken and analyzed by a doc
7). Lastly- you won’t need to ask random bro’s on a forum what you should be taking. If a doctor won’t prescribe at 368, then try a new endo. If you truly want to feel the best, you will do the leg work and find a good doc.
I found my doctor ( been with him for 5 years) within 10 min on the internet. I will give you one suggestion- Try asking your pharmacist for a list of doctors.. it’s helped me many times
Or even call a compound pharmacy and request a list.. everyone wins by referrals .
Be smart bro.. don’t ask “non doctors” for advice on numbers. Make a wise decision!! Don’t be stupid - you really don’t know what the hell you are talking about!!!!!
RustyhookerI decided to have my doc check test levels, mainly cause I'm 53
Says right there that he did see his dr. And NO, most drs do not test estro. He IS in normal range.
If your doc does not test estrogen then you
Might want to find a new one. A good endo does a full panel blood and 2 to 3 blood test a year. Mine checks liver function, estrogen, hematocrit levels, test levels .. on top of others.
And yes.. he “is in normal range “ obviously. But normal range can differ from person to person. That’s why it’s a range. An 80 yo male at 205 is “in range”, but a 40 yo with close to the same range would also be “in range”.
Personally I would like to be in a healthy and effective range. He obviously said that he knew he could feel better.. and yes by optimizing his hormones will make him feel and probably look better (loss of fat, build muscle, more energy, sleep better.. and on and on).
So I agree that he is range.. but he should be in the most optimizing range for total benefits. We should never be telling some one third levels are “fine”. Everyone works different at different levels.
It drives me crazy when people give someone crap from posting their numbers and saying that there numbers are good. Let a doctor determine that. - an educated doctor that is not afraid to prescribe theses hormones.. not “bro science”
This was a good discussion.. I truly learn a lot from these forums
Alphamale500"If your doc does not test estrogen then you
Might want to find a new one. A good endo does a full panel blood and 2 to 3 blood test a year. Mine checks liver function, estrogen, hematocrit levels, test levels .. on top of others."
This is true of a good endocrinologist. But, the OP got his test levels checked by his regular doctor and not an endo. That's why he should really find a good endocrinologist if trt is something he really wants to pursue, imo.
Do you get this kind of stuff for free over in the States or do you have to pay for the endo tests/bloodwork privately etc?
Alphamale500My insurance covers all the appointments, all of the tests/bloodwork etc with my endo, and also with my primary. The meds are a totally different story. Most of the medications from my endo are not covered. Even test isn't even covered. It's not that expensive though, like $80 per vial.
When my endo prescribed me HCG a while ago, the pharmacy wanted $350 for a 5000iu vial. Fuckn crazy!! I get like 20 for that price, lol! But occasionally I do have use some private, internet labs. And I guess it all depends on your insurance.
Appreciate your input. Learned something from everyone.
RustyhookerYoure the first person in ten years ive been here that had dr checking e2 values. That would and shoild be a common experience. Especially with males and hardening of arteries
A GP is not going to know what to do, unfortunately, it's up to the patient to know how to ask for a referral to a endo doc.
Thanks for the advice. I will take everyone's advice and seek an actual endocronologist rather than take my general practitioner's conclusion. I just know I can/should feel better at 53 than i do. i see men my age and, though i can't prove it, i suspect many are getting some "help".
Yes I love being on TRT.. it’s changed me for sure - but it took a while for my doc to get me to the right levels.. in the 300s are low buddy. But there are doctors who are scared to prescribe testosterone due to the negative publicity. My doc started me on TRT at age 30 and I had a little higher than you do. Make insurance pay for it... heaven knows we pay an ass load to them..
I figured it was low. Hopefully I can find someone who can help me optimize it. It is only in the last 4 years or so that I felt different. The difference between me at 48 and me at 53 is substantial. It's has nothing to do with effort or diet, sadly. As a matter of fact, when effort is increased, there are more and more setbacks and you no longer recover sometimes for weeks. From what used to take a couple of days. Oh well..keep moving on. Did you use a local doctor or an internet clinic?
Both.. I started with a online doctor (hint, if you don’t sign up.. they don’t make money).. then I wanted insurance to cover it, so I found a doc in my area. If there are no doctors that will help, do your research and find a doc online.
Online docs are simple. You never have to go into the office and the meds are shipped.. negative side: insurance usually does not cover a lot of it. But.. I will say that the online doctors will some times be a little more liberal about the amount prescribed.
There is so much info online, you Would definitely get a prescription. It’s all up to you and what you can afford..also some TRT /HRT clinics will also do HGH on top of your TRT.
I hope this helps.. you’ll figure it out if you use good old Google
Alphamale500My final comment is this:
If you're so fuckn experienced, then why are you on a forum asking what are the normal test ranges, and how to use test cyp? I'm only trying, well I was only trying to help you, but you're just too fuckn thickheaded bro. A little bit of humbleness in life goes a long way! Use all of your knowledge to figure out your fuckn answers for yourself then Mr. Smartguy!
RustyhookerYou mad bro? I see only this post and dudes asking questions. Its obviously diet issues.
Ask dude to post diet n gym or pix. Hell....i crap bigger than he is so theres that. Lol
Alphamale500Lol, I hear you Rusty. It's just when I was actually trying to help the fuckn guy, providing answers he was asking for, and he was just acting like a jerkoff for no reason. Trying to dance around questions and shit. There's no need, if you're inexperienced that's fine, you know.
But don't ask for help, and then when I'm trying to figure out how much experience you have, start claiming that you have all the answers and on top of that he's gonna start getting cunty with me! You know? Do you see anywhere below where I was being malicious and not helping by answering his questions??
RustyhookerI feel the pain. Dodging like that...just want a cosigner. Then you worked hard laying out diet, gym and cardio routines....some newb pops in posts a cycle and op is gone. The site here has changed into that....ugh.... :(
AnonCunty...lmao stealing that
Alphamale500Lol, it's yours bro!!
I never fuckin asked for normal test ranges btw. Any jackass can do that. And any fool knows that such a wide range is ridiculous.
Wow. Impressive.
Alphamale500But do you have any experience with using exogenous testosterone, or everything else that goes with it?
I do. I did a couple of cycles in my late 30s, test, tren, dianabol..in my wilder days. I got great results. So not totally inexperienced.
Alphamale500If you're e2 was high, how would you deal with it? And how would you even know without getting those other panels tested? I'm just trying to see where your experience level is. So how would you handle a high e2 level?
To be 100% honest here, since you said yourself that you haven't touched any gear in about 25years, and your lack of answers to my questions, I don't even think you have the knowledge needed to do trt on your own. You're just gonna end up causing yourself more problems. You should find a good endocrinologist if this is truly something that you want to look into, and talk it over with them.
Alphamale500So you know how to deal with high e2 levels should they occur, and how to properly inject etc.? Also, if you're going to be using test, you really need to have full bloodwork done before and while you're on it. Not just the few panels that you had done. And since 368 is really not that low, maybe you can try some natural ways to increase your test levels first.
Just had the bloodwork done and it is great. BP excellent. I am blessed for sure. Any input on increasing naturally? Suggestions are all over the place. Do know how to inject (my homemade tren was really painful bth). Never had e2 issue...my thoughts were to start test cyp at 100 mg week and go from there. Very conservative. I assumed e2 issues would be minimal at such a low dose.
Alphamale500What did you just do some Google searches to finally get some answers? K, how did you control your e2 when you were using tren, test etc in you "wild days"?
And btw, this is what you said in your first post:
"I have test cyp ready to go."
Nothing about how to increase your test levels naturally. And why would you even go on a steroid forum to find out how to increase your test levels naturally??
No need to control..no symptoms. My doses were extremely low..relative to what I see people sharing here. My "plan" comes from my previous experiences in relation to dosages and the results i got. Nothing extreme, just some strength increase and muscle growth.
Alphamale500Bro, it's very obvious that this is all bullshit! Look, it's perfectly fine if you're inexperienced. But don't try and make it seem like you are when your not. Give an example of a couple of your prior cycles. Including ancilliaries too. Everone does.
No bullshit here. 100% honest.
Alphamale500Well the normal range is between roughly 220-1100. Just to have a normal range where you can get your life back, I'd say to shoot for the 7,800 ng/dl range. But you should really be doing this with an endocrinologist bro.
AnonLmao! Bro that typo made my day..
Fuckin gram and a half for trt!! Hahaha aaah I fuckin love it.
Go big or go home right!?
Alphamale500Lol! You could probably get there with like a gram of test per week! That's fuckn insane. I had to write it out just in case he misunderstood.
You are right of course.
Alphamale500Btw, I didn't mean the 7,800 range. I meant the 700, or 800 ng/dl range of course. And what was I right about? Normal would be rather 250-1100 ng/dl range, and it really depends on what lab you go to. They have slightly different ranges.