+ 3 Clomiphene Monotherapy Is Amazing For Secondary Hypogonadism
What's up guys. When I was young, and didn't know much about using steroids, and especially about using them properly with minimal side effects, I ended up fucking up my axis and developing Secondary Hypogonadism. For years afterwards, I dealt with it by treating the issue with TRT, but then I decided with my endocrinologist to give just clomiphene monotherapy a try, and I was amazed with the results. With just clomiphene alone, my total testosterone level, went from around 160, all the way to 1550. I started with 50mg per day, and after about a month, I started taking 100mg per day. Not only did the clomiphene bring both my total and free testosterone levels way up, but it also kept my levels of SHBG, FSH, LH, E2 within optimal range. Total testosterone levels of 1550, are equal to roughly a 250mg shot of testosterone cypionate per week, in the average person, from what I've read. I would definitely recommend anyone with Secondary Hypogonadism to give clomiphene monotherapy a try, for a few months at least. Of course, everybody's response to clomiphene can be different, but it's so beneficial, that I really think if you could use it, it's definitely worth giving it a try. There is one complication that I'm aware of, and that has to do with, if you suffer from anxiety or not. I just happen to be one of those people, which is why I had to stop using clomiphene, and switch to HCG injections. I was on the clomiphene for about nine months total, but after about six or seven months, I began to notice really intense anxiety. At first, I wasn't sure what the intense anxiety was from, since I had been taking the clomiphene for about six or seven months already. But, once I discussed it with my endocrinologist, and I stopped taking it, the anxiety ceased after a week or two. Now, I've been taking the HCG for a long time, when I'm on gear as well, and it's been working very well for me. I just have to keep a close eye on my E2 levels, because the HCG can raise them, especially with gear, or at high doses. So, I was thinking, anyone who wants to bump up their testosterone levels and put on some mass, can really just use some clomiphene instead of actual steroids! If you were to try using clomiphene instead of steroids, I would start at 50mg per day for the first couple of weeks, and then bump up the dose to 100-150mg per day. And instead of negatively affecting your hormone and other levels, the clomiphene should actually help you raise your testosterone levels safely, and with very minimal, or no side effects!
- Bookmark
- 3
- 0
Clomiphene increased testicular volume and test levels to mid normal range for me. Unfortunately it made me emotional, gave me anxiety, and also severe insomnia. Not worth it for me.
JayD718Yeah, towards the end of my treatment at about nine months, the anxiety and the emotional effects were fuckin driving me crazy!!! It was working amazingly for the nine or so months, even much better than I expected, but then the anxiety feelings took over my whole life! I'm just curious as to how well the new to the market, Enclomiphene citrate works, and if it produces the anxiety effects or not! Since this variation was purposely produced just for men, then maybe it doesn't have those emotional effects! However, when it comes to restoring testicular size, the HCG, in my opinion, beats the Clomiphene hands down. I never realized how big my balls were until being on HCG for a while. I take 200iu, M-W-F, when I'm not running any juice, but while I'm on juice, I take 250iu, M-W-F. My endocrinologist said that 200iu, M-W-F, is the average dose that's prescribed for men.
This wasn't even an option my urologist mentioned to me. Don't think I would have really opted for it though. I'll stick with the test. This is something my fertilty doc may have me doing depending on how successful my HCG/HMG therapy turns out.
JayD718What's up bro? I was the one who actually brought up Clomiphene therapy to my endocrinologist, because of all the negative press that TRT was getting at the time, but mainly because I wanted to try something that seemed a little healthier, and something that actually increased my fertility instead of diminishing it. I've heard great things about HMG, and I'm currently on HCG therapy year round. How come your urologist is using both HCG, and HMG??
This is a fertility doc and not my normal urologist. It has something to do with increasing spermatogenisis.
JayD718Oh, alright. Because I've heard good things about HMG!
Nice post.
Thanks for sharing.
Regards to Pct or TRT, I have tried the same.
Clomid worked the best for me and brought total test to more than normal levels, and when disconnected, they barely dropped.
So I agree with you
My dosage was 40/40/60/60
4 week Pct with just that.
JayD718Bro if 18 is your real age, DON'T USE STEROIDS YET!!!
JayD718Yeah, I've also had amazing results with clomiphene, as you read. But, like IrishWOLFhound asked, are you sure you're not mixing them up with tamoxifen citrate(Nolvadex)? Then again, there are some research solution companies out there, that sell research Clomiphene citrate in the 40mg/ml dosage. Maybe that's what you're talking about?
Are you sure that wasn't tamoxifen ? Clomid are usually 50mg pill where as Tamoxifen are 20mg .
Clomid therapy is fine, my doc is in talks with me to switching over, although not as high as you are doing, we are looking at 50mg a day because over 1100 is not healthy for the long term. Women who take clomid for cancer recession take it for years BUT they take time off as well. +2 for not being a pin cushion.
JayD718Yeah, my endocrinologist said it's a very safe way to raise your testosterone, improve fertility, and to do it with minimal possible side effects. I believe there's supposed to be the new official Enclomiphene citrate form coming to the market in the U.S., just for men. I'm not sure if I can mention the name, so I won't, but you can easily google it. I haven't really read about it in a while, so I'm not sure where it actually stands right now. Maybe it's actually out already, though I'm not sure.
Its out there!
JayD718Oh, really! Now, I'm thinking of maybe asking my endocrinologist if I can give it a try. Maybe, this one won't give me the debilitating anxiety issues. I'm really excited now. Thanks bro!
No offense, I totally disagree with you.
As you likely know clomiphene can both be a E2 agonist or antagonist or partial agonist, depending on the ER or isoforms present in the cell. Well, it just happens that ERa and ERb in many variations are all over your brain and in many areas clomiphene does bind and does, well, something (differing between people and most effects are poorly understood -as so much else with your brain). Esp. important locations of ER are amygdala (hightened emotionality and increased stress response so there you have your anxiety), cingulate cortices, prefrontal cortices (estradiol is crucial for cognition over the long term), hippocampi, raphe nuclei (source of serotonin) and various hypothalamic nuclei (all kinds of behavioral and emotional effects in addition to interfering with hormonal feedback) and many other areas.
I do no not wanna sound like a smartass (my wife is a neuroscientist) but clomiphene is TERRIBLE for your wellbeing. While the peripheral effects of the increase in T are there (testicular volume, some muscle growth perhaps) messing with your estrogen receptors, both all over your body and espescially in your brain is totally not worth not having to jab (imho). While short-term sides are definitely managable and subtle (as during PCT), I am especially worried about the long-term effects on cognition and hippocampal neurogenesis, let alone your CONSTANT subtle influence on mood (for good reason are many postmenopausal women depressed and experience some pretty bad cognitive deterioration). I am aware that some studies in andrology do in fact suggest clomiphene monotherapies (while others do strongly advice against it), keep in mind the medical community does primarily look at numbers and hard endpoints (which is not a bad thing).
All this basically holds for all other SERMS.
Summary: clomiphene does not much more than raising a number on your blood test and basically the only time when you can expect net positive effects from clomiphene is when your E2 is pretty much non existent (as SERMs are at least partially agonistic). While it might be fine for 4-8weeks in PCT, it is almost certainly a bad thing to chronically bombard a male brain with a FAKE estrogen whose hypercomplex interactions esp. in the long term are far from understood.
Also, your suggestion to bump clomiphene up to 100-150mg per day..................................................................
JayD718Honestly, I don't mean any offense! I wish I can say I hear ya, but the first paragraph sounds a little like Chinese to me!
Interesting counterpoints. I’ve heard some men having horrible emotional issues on clomid, and clearly some have none at all. If you’re one who responds well this could be a good substitute for trt while trying to maintain fertility, and going back to the shots when that time is over.
JayD718Absolutely, there are some bad emotional problems for some people. That's like what I began to suffer from towards the end of my treatment. And that's definitely true about clomiphene restoring your fertility if you want to try and have children. Clomiphene is an excellent medication, with more purposes than just raising your testosterone levels during PCT.
Lovely post, good man, +
Hcg is a fcuker for smashing estro and then prolactin through the roof
Keep an eye on your fsh for fertility
JayD718Thanks! Yeah, the HCG raises your E2 very easily, even while taking average doses. That's why I try and keep my dose just high enough to keep my testosterone levels within a normal, but slightly lower normal range, and I always take anastrazole when running gear.
RustyhookerHows your cholesterol with those numbers being literally a cycle? Bp go up? If my bp goes up anxiety and snappy kicks in
JayD718While I was taking the clomiphene, I was getting regular bloodwork, and everything including my blood pressure, cholesterol, and my whole lipid profile was all within normal range. I though it was really amazing, especially with that kind of testosterone level! Also, I'm not sure, but I think my blood pressure stays within the normal range, because I also take my anxiety medicine clonazepam, daily. I figure that the clonazepam is a central nervous system depressant, and probably helps keep my blood pressure normal. Sometimes, my blood pressure runs in the slightly lower range.
RustyhookerGood to know! Appreciate the feedback. Some chems give positives but followed with negatives.
JayD718No problem bro! Like I said, the only negative effects that I got from the clomiphene, was the very bad anxiety towards the end. But, I have anxiety issues to begin with, so I really can't say for sure, if the anxiety was caused by the clomiphene, although I think it's a logical assumption, with all of the information out there that claims clomiphene can cause emotional, or anxiety-like side effects.