Considering TRT opinions/advice wanted please.
Hey guys,Im 38 years old,6'2" 255 with a good amount of BF (25-30%probably)I'm in the gym 3-5 days a week and hit the free weights at home some too. Cardio is pretty weak but my diet is pretty clean .I eat chicken and fish mostly throughout the day.I work on call 24/7 so I take protein bars and shakes with me to avoid eating crappy food...anyhow,I have felt like crap,sluggish,brain fog,no libido,cant sleep worth a crap for several years.I started looking into TRT and decided my best bet was to take a blood test on my own,all I got was the total serum and free test levels checked. TOTAL SERUM = 368,FREE TEST=6.4(low).normal range shows to be 8.7-25..should I pursue TRT or try to keep plugging away at it in the gym? Is there any thing I can do on my own to get my free T levels back to normal range?Thanks in advance.
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High bodyfat increases estrogen. Estrogen and testosterone work in a seesaw. If your estro is high, your test will be low.
This is how our body regulates t production. (T converts into estro, if estro is high the body will thinks its' T is too high.)
This is why clomid works. It binds to the receptors were estrogen normally binds to and the body thinks it has no estrogen. http://www.maledoc.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/LH-testosterone.png
Body weight down to 249
3 point caliper = 18-19%
Sleep has improved quite a bit.
I made it through the holidays and shook a couple of pounds off as well as a little bit of bodyfat.I appreciate everyones input here.This will be my last post under this forum topic as i seem to have drifted quite a bit away from the original topic.Just wanted to give a little update for anyone else that may be following this for similar issues.Thanks again guys.
basskiller89Are you dieting or that's just from TRT?
I’m dieting, I came here looking for advice on starting trt...I never started it.Im trying to get my body fat down to a decent level instead. It’s helped with my quality of sleep..although I still feel pretty sluggish and my libido isn’t exactly off the charts.Im slowly chipping away at my body fat and I’m getting a lot stronger.
Well done +'s
basskiller89x2
x3
From my understanding he is having sleep issues and trying to avoid TRT till needed. Get his body fat down and lose some wait and retest the blood levels. Still brings me back to the sleep issues after reading the posts. Does anyone think melatonin would help him sleep? I would really like someone with more experience to post about melatonin and if it help sleep as well!
So, I finally got some body fat calipers to keep track of things a little better.My body fat is sitting at 22-24% and my body weight is sitting at 251 pounds right now.My strength increases are coming along nicely now as well as my muscle tone.I feel like I’m starting to see some real progress.Im not anywhere near power lifter status but I did push 335 on the bench last week which is a new PR for me.I started this journey with a day 1 picture and still have that for a reference.I did get pretty bummed out about 4 weeks in and stopped taking progress pics.Hopefully soon I’ll feel confident enough in my progress to post some “before” and “during” pics.Im not sure I’ll ever make it to an “after”!
Big thanks to everyone who chimed in on this post at the beginning! I truly feel like I dodged a bullet by opting out of TRT at this time.
The resources on this site are never ending and are an incredible help!I feel like I have so many options now as far as diet and supplementing.
I’ll be starting a Keto diet after Thanksgiving.And I’ll keep everyone posted.Also I plan on getting more blood work done prior to changing my diet dramatically as well.Thanks again guys
+1 for getting blood work done. You'll never regret having data.
If you have keto questions, feel free to PM too. It takes a week to really beat the "sugar withdrawal" symptoms (often called the "keto flu") but it's SOOOO worth it. Thanks for this update! You're on the right path, and it speaks well of you that you're open to hear the words that these men on this forum are telling you. You'll reach your goals, no doubt. Crush it, brother!
top man. it gets tough at our age
When you get a moment, update us on your weight loss progress as well as your "education" here at eroids, please!
I'd love to lie to you guys and say that the weight is peeling off like melted butter!But the fact is I'm still chugging along at about 255.I should have gotten my bodyfat checked a few months ago so I could have a nice baseline to compare my results with now.Im looking much more muscular and my strength is going up on all of my lifts.Im starting to sleep a little better at night.I'll admit I still could tighten up my diet quiet a bit and my cardio has been pretty weak the last few weeks due to my job.I work on call 24/7 with no set days off,if work calls I go to work! sometimes all day and all night out of state.Makes it pretty hard to stay consistent with anything.We just hired a guy today to help out so hopefully it will ease up a little bit..I'll try to start posting diet/workout details on this post about twice a month if anyone is interested.
I'm simply rooting for you and walking with you through this chapter of your adventure. If you update this thread, I'll do my best to keep an eye on it!
As for weight loss, have you heard of the keto diet? Basically you're putting your body into a state of being where it's burning fat (which breaks down to three different molecules that are called "ketones," thus the "keto" name). You keep carbs super duper low. Basically, you only get carbs from veggies, and you crank your fat intake WAY up, then even limit your protein intake. Considering most lifters stick to a protocol of 1g protein per lb of body fat, if you kick your protein down to 40 or 50g per day, you'll have what lifters call "protein guilt" (as in, you're not consuming enough).
Don't listen to those goal hijacking fuck faces. You're here to cut body fat. If you were trying to get bigger, I'd advise you differently. You're TRYING to GET SMALLER (or to say it better, LEANER). You gotta eat less calories to do that. That means less of all of it.
For the keto diet, the best thing about it is, you eat the shit out of veggies cooked in butter. When I go keto, I'll eat an entire bag of broccoli cooked in a stick of butter. The great part about this is, it satiates your hunger. I'm ALWAYS hungry, so to finally "feel full," it's amazing.
If you get your body into a state of ketosis, it's actually a very satisfying way to eat. Bacon, veggies, and cream in your coffee. I miss eating lots of meat when I go keto, but I never go that direction for longer than a month, so I know that I can get back to eating big portions of meat when my 30 day keto "cut" is over. (I typically drop 10lbs in a month, mostly of bloat, but some body fat too. Then, I eat big for six months, then have to do another 30 day calorie cut to get to where my pants aren't tight around the mid section, etc.)
It's strange to get used to that diet at first, but often times when peeps are simply "having difficulty dieting," the keto diet works.
Society has programmed us to think that "high fat diets are BAD!" On the contrary, HIGH CALORIE DIETS ARE BAD. (I say this in reference to "maintenance," not bulking, and even then, peeps get way more out of 5k calories of CLEAN food than 5k calories of garbage. Moving along.)
I suggest the book "Keto Clarity" if you wanna learn more. I bought the audio book and ended up buying the cookbook to go along with it all cuz the audio content made so much sense to me. The diet WORKS. It's strange to get used to the feeling that your body can run on fat energy instead of "carbs" (aka-glycogen) but there is a cool overall feeling after a month or so that your body experiences as you're dropping body fat, etc.
Again, it's not a magic pill, but it's a very effective strategy to use to drop unwanted body fat over the course of several months. The keto diet is a TOOL. When used correctly, it's effective and quite satisfying.
I'm hoping this info can help you. Being fatter than you want to be just sucks. We're all eroids family here, so we're in this together. Drop me a PM if you're interested. Rooting for you. Cheers! -ZeusM
You might consider running a thyroid panel also.
Yes sir.To be honest...I had no idea the depth of my first post until after I posted it.There is so much more to this stuff than taking a magical pill or getting a shot at the doc.I'll certainly be drawing a much more comprehensive blood panel next time.I plan on continuing with my cardio and weightlifting and then getting some more bloods drawn at the first of next year,unless my symptoms get worse than they are now....in which case ill discuss options with a doctor.Im so glad I got these opinions before I took the plunge on a TRT clinic.
Cardio played a big part when I was dealing with a lot of your symptoms.. I lost 20+lbs and low T as you did. cardio not only helped me loss the weight, but also my sleep, drive, and endurance. Ur on the right path. Stay strong to the struggle my brother..
I agree. Ive had knee probs and unable to treadmill past year or so. Put on 40lbs. Back to cycle after yr off everything and test ended up being below 200 at end of 12 months wo anything. Back to 45 min a day at 3 or 3.5/mph at incline for knee at 3 or so. Pounds flying off. W
Thanks a lot!Im gonna keep on chucking away at it and ive kicked up the cardio since my first post.
20 lbs in 6 months is great, well done.
Perhaps now is a good time for a full health check.
~600 is considered average for your age. So 368 TT is well below average, but low free t or bioavailable t is the real issue (presuming tested correctly) and may not be 'normal' for you personally. If you're feeling sh!t on top of that with low t symptoms then you have an issue you need to resolve.
As the lads below say, doc trip for full bloods panel including proper thyroid tests.
Depending in the type of diet you've been doing, calorie restriction/depravation will cause test to lower, this is very real and worth mentioning as you've been very successfully dropping fat.
Get to the doc for the tests and re-consider the diet to get on a healthy course and back on a pro-test track
Some examples; check out an ebook called the Man Diet. Or check ketogenic diet for a circa 100 points bump. These are just examples of food paths that are proven to bump natural test but you need to find something that works for you.
(full homo)
My diet could very well explain my low test then.Thank you sir! I actually went from a high protein/low carb diet to a pretty tough caloric restriction diet.I responded pretty well to both diets.I didn't know enough about what diet could do to testosterone.I certainly appreciate all the responses from everyone as well as the abundance of information I have found on this site.I have stepped up my cardio since my first post on this thread and done my best to clean up my diet.Thanks again for all the responses.
Did you get your estrogen checked? If it is high you can take Aromasin to both lower it, and raise your test levels. You will have to do frequent bloodwork to dial in the dose as you will probably need less as time goes on. Your test numbers aren't horrible so you should try everything possible to avoid TRT!
No sir,I didn't check the estrogen.I had a feeling I had low test after doing some research online.I found several online TRT clinics and looked into those..I finally decided instead of paying the $200 a month fees that I would order a basic blood test with total testosterone and free testosterone levels included for $35.I realize now that a more inclusive blood test would have been more optimal.But this was all kind of on a whim for me.Thank you for your response
I am on trt and I know that it is due to my age and mistreating my body in my younger years(no pct). Its a shot a week for the rest of your life, so think real hard about if you want that to be part of you life forever. Also if you do decide to try the trt route after your bf% is under control dont go to a trt clinic as they will more than likely push it on you, go to an endocrinologist let them run some tests and talk to you about all your options.
Ive decided to keep on trying to peel off this extra fat I've got first.I do pretty good in the gym,I think my biggest problem is due to my sleep issues,but I've lived with it this long so I don't really see a downside to skipping the try if I can.Thanks again guys.
In my opinon that is the smartest decision. Alot of people are rushing to get on trt. Although I do like keeping my test levels high I wish I didn't need it. Have you looked into getting a sleep study done to see if you have sleep apnea?
Thanks guys.I will keep chipping away at the body fat.Ive dropped about 20 pounds in the last 6 months, it just started slowing down on me lately.I appreciate the responses.I feel like trt needs to be a last resort for me right now.
Karma has been distributed.
Listen to the 3 below.
ETA: 368 ain't low,........... it's not high either.
You are overweight, hence low free test. Drop down to 20% or less and I bet you will see those numbers rise up. Stress and depression also lowers your state of mind causing loss of libido, foggy head, no energy, e.t.c.
I bet your Doctor will tell you the exact same thing I just did.
Thank you for your response sir! I have stepped up my cardio since my first post and plan to keep plugging away at it.I feel much better from just going to the gym 4 or 5 days a week compared to how I felt this time last year.
Try getting your body fat down to about 15% and see if that helps. When you have higher body fat they can impair testosterone production but if you reduce it to normal levels you can increase or return to normal in a lot of cases. In your case I don't know how much of a factor would have as you don't that sound to be grossly overweight, which is the general population that is affected. The food choices can have a negative impact, but based on your description of not sleeping for shit I would say that might be a good indication of where you're getting a lot of your problems from. Reducing stress May help. In my experience working in the lab for men ages 25 to 50 the test level range I see most commonly is between 380 and 600 typically. If altering these things that I mentioned do not help at all then absolutely go to a doctor as rusty suggested, and there would be nothing wrong with seeing one first to come up with a game plan.
RustyhookerGo to your Dr. Thats the only real way.
Raise up your cardio and eat better. Lack of good calories will add on fat, raises estro, lowers natural test.
Theres a lot here before considering trt. Stress alone does the same via cortisol.
You are correct sir! There is ALOT of information compiled on this website (easily found via the search bar)I have kicked up my cardio to everyday possible and I do my best with my diet.I have an on-call job 24/7 so it makes it pretty hard to get a schedule going with anything,sometimes I find myself stuck on work sites out of state for a few days on end.I meal prep at home and take enough with me to get me by for 24 hours,but after that its pretty much quick stop protein bars/drinks.I appreciate everyone taking the time to give me advice.