posted Fri, 02/16/2018 - 22:25
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+ 7 HUGE META RESEARCH ON PROTEIN AND MUSCLE BUILDING
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What are your thoughts on Sarms....been on both GW and the S4 my flat bench increased from 225lb for 30 reps to 45 reps in just 6 weeks...Any possible suggestions for other SARMS? is staying in S4 longer then 8 weeks to long WITHOUT a break?
and its sounds like bs. You got 50% stronger and apparently within the 5 rep range of the NFL record on SARMS?
Yeah sure....
EDIT : Found the video! This dude is a beast. 49 reps at 225. So to the OP, which team are you signing for?
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d81e843bc/Stephen-Paea-sets...
Lol it’s kind of cool to have a superhero on the board tho
He is a dreamer.
AnonYou're like 5 reps away from the NFL record. Good for you. But like mentioned below, create your own post and don't hijack others.
makwa is right what has this got to do with anything on this page are you nuts
this has no relavance to the original post. Best to start your own post.
NICE POST BROTHER JACK!
This information could help alot of people mate. I'm definitely guilty of eating to much protein which I've come to realise is really bad for the body.
Protein = ammonia as a by-product after the body has used all it can the. The left over is converted into ammonia which is obviously toxic creating unnecessary strain on the body/kidneys.
Throw some orals into the mix and you've got even more strain on the body.
Thanks mate ;)
I have been saying that for a long time now. I NEVER eat more then 200 grams a day of protein, I always try and stay around 145-155 which would be my LBM for my height and age. So if I am sitting at 200 pounds, and 13% Bodyfat and then subtracted the weight of my skin and organs I am exactly the right amount of protein as muscle per pound. I think that is where everyone goes wrong, you need to eat protein for the muscle you have not the added bones, organs, fat and skin. There is no muscle in that.
I firmly believe everyone needs to quit with the cookie cutter bullshit from the 60's and start your own experiment.
Start small and work your way up start at the lowest sustainable then after a month if there is no change or a decease in muscle you go up a half, wait a month and try again, e.t.c. This is a marathon not a race.
Sing it brother.
I agree 100% I can say something like that about other supplements too. If it makes me piss orange it is probably too much, and taxing on my kidneys.
But that’s another topic.
Good comment - I have always disagreed with the 1G per LB formula - tried it for a while, but have made and maintained good gains on around 100G for 200lb body weight.
That is about the same amount I use to, anymore than that is a waste for my metabolism. If you think about it off cycle you probably don’t gain 100g of muscle a day anyway way and your body is only going to use what it needs.
Just my theory.
I don’t anyway
I don't think that there is a direct correlation between protein intake and muscle growth to the degree that 100g of protein equals 100g of muscle. Protein assists in the development of muscle - more protein available for the muscle than it uses assists in growth. However, it is possible to consume too much protein, thus stressing your kidneys and not assisting in muscle growth. Also, there is a balance between protein and carbs - not enough carbs means that your body doesn't have the available energy to fuel your workouts. As you said - your body is only going to use what it needs in terms of protein - overdo the carbs and you just get them converted to fat...so it's a tricky and delicate balance between, protein, carbs and of course - training. Without the appropriate degree of exercise intensity - no protein/carb ratio is going to do anything...just my thoughts.
“overdo the carbs and you just get them converted to fat“
It has taken years for that tidbit to sink into my little brain. Hahaha
Yeah...the human body is all about survival. Keep feeding it and it will go into survival mode thinking: "Got a shitload of food, but maybe there is going to be a famine in the future - better store some of this stuff." It really is that simple...once again - just my thoughts.
That's what it's all about, trial and error. You found the sweet spot that works for you.
That's a really good way of putting it Mack.
Only account for actual muscle and not total body weight. Makes perfect sense mate thanks
AnonPer pound of muscle makes sense, per pound of body weight like I've always heard seems like a lot these days. I'm sure the 250+ grams I eat per day mostly end up in the toilet.
Interesting read , thanks +
I think this only applies to natty guys & when we’re off cycle tho right?
With the enhanced rate of protein synthesis from gear it would certainly help to have a little more protein no?
I dunno, I’m still shooting for 1.5-2g’s per pound when I’m on.
Nice post. +
Opposite is the case. It is proven beyond any form of doubt that muscle protein synthesis (measured on quads specifically) is not affected by excess aminos. Just goes to other body protein synthesis and/or is excreted. AAS enhance MPS and do not degrade/hinder it, but once it is switched on it is switched on.
It may seem counterintuitive but think of the glass of water analogy... fill it and the excess overflows.
The "muscle full" hypothesis is the best explanation yet of this.
More muscle will require more amino's but not to the excesses people think, its quite marginal actually and the muscle must also accumulate first before any dial shifts.
The main consideration is not protein per day, but protein needed to switch on MPS and how many times in a day you want to/can do that. Once switched on it only lasts 90 mins but takes 3 hrs for amino levels to hit base again, (bearing in mind excess os proven to do nothing, even delivered by IV)...so you can switch it on every 3 hours. Total daily use will be dictated by how many times you can fit 3 hr blocks into your day, multiply that by 20/30g of aminos and thats a give individuals total daily need of aa's.
Its all very well documented and well proven at this stage.
All studies I’ve seen do not involve the introduction of AAS. So unless you can point me to a study that does, we’re all just hypothesizing.
Going on the water glass theory, sure it can only hold so much water, but if you start drinking the water from the glass faster, you’re going to need more water to keep it full.
I’m just going on logic until I see a study involving the enhanced rate of Protien synthesis caused by AAS use with resistance trained adult males. And logic tells me to stick with the tried and true. Guys on AAS have experimented anacdotally, and found more protien equals more muscle. I’m sure there’s a point of diminishing returns, but I don’t know what that is so I’m sticking to what I’ve always been taught.
I’d be more than open to read studies. I just can’t find any that replicate our conditions while “on”.
Plenty of studies out there on low endog test, high endog test and also aas inc test and adrol. If you look you can find but id recommend the muscle full study as 1 i think you would enjoy
On a cellular level, how this stuff works is pretty accessible... that is to the point which the experts understand it (they are learning more all the time of course).... and there are gaps in lots of things... individuals, weights, protein quality (leucine), other inputs like exercise and steroids and all the test but there is still the method of action, with steroids producing more mrna and reducing catabolism. But the fact is there are threaholds, for leucine and also steroids action via receptors... i.e. once the threshold is reached that specific response is switched on.... you cant turn a light switch more on past its max.
There is a big difference between supposition which you are doing and hypotheses which ate evidence based.
I did it for years too, years... 400g+ of protein etc. And not a blind bit of difference did it make.
Anyway the evidence, as best they have it is there to see and that muscle full study really is a good one to check out.
The endog test studies don’t interest me in this matter though. I mean they do, and I’ve read a lot about off cycle protien intake/diet similar to this article in the OP, but in regards to extra protien on cycle, it doesn’t have as much relevance due to things changing so much at a cellular level. I’ve been digging but I’ll dig more for the AAS related ones. I’ll check that muscle full study out too.
When you cut your protien down on cycle, what do you replace it with? I feel like that many extra carbs will fatten me up, so I’m assuming fats? Or do you split it down the middle? I’m not apprised to trying it next cycle, but I’m gonna be annoyed if I short change myself lol.
I hear you 100%.
Look lets say we did the study side by side, me natty and you pumped to the gills. The results would be, probably, the most insightful we could get.
I remembered another study actually from my nor research. It showed tren of all things, to increase net protein balance by anti-cat effects and only a minimal protein increase. Of course not all steroids behave that way.
Ill see if i have any saved. Ill ping them your way but its really like a patchwork quilt i guess when piecing this stuff together.
Generally i up the cals via carbs and fats myself. But as you say, we are all individuals so i have to improve my glucose metabolism or i suffer serious fat accumulation. GH and metformin or your berberine sort me out. The thyroid is a consideration too because AAS will upregulate t3 conversion but hard workouts burn out available t3. So again, and i know i am muddying the water a bit here... metabolism in general plus glucose metab gotta be sorted. Keto does a magic job on that so some people will simply do carb cycling and go super hight with fats (100g butter on broccoli with chicken =1kcals) but with zero carbs in soght that wont accumulate as fat in body.
GH and met/berb is where its at for me plus anything that improves t3 conversion
Agreed. If I try it next cycle I'll probably split the fats & carbs down the middle in place of the protein. Like you, without berberine & GH, even when super lean (lean for me, anyway, which is like 10-11%), carbs just turns to blubber on me seemingly overnight. But I've been trying to stay on both berb & gh year round (albeit, only 2iu of growth).
The berberine has been a game changer for me (I'm sure metformin would be too but haven't tried it – I really have to make time to write the conclusion on that forum), but even with it, I can go higher on carbs, but not drastically higher. Even though 90% of the carbs I eat are complex.
I've never tried carb cycling, but I feel like that might be a good route for me to experiment with as well. Especially if I'm going to be dropping the protein. I like that idea a lot. But maybe I should try lower protein on it's own first so I don't blur the results of one test with another factor involved.
And yea man, if you have them saved, feel free to shoot them over to me. You know I'm always open minded and like to learn. Thanks for the info boss.
lol I accidentally thumbs upped myself. I suck.
I doubt any of them were on AAS. All this research pretty much goes out the window when AAS is added into the mix. Apples to oranges with natty and AAS.
couldn't agree more. I'm sticking with 1.5-2g's per lb when I'm on. Besides, I REAAAALLY like steak lol.
I heard flex wheeler saying essentially the same thing on YouTube. He said they took way too much protein in 90s and it was a mistake. He eats less than a 1gram per pound. Thanks for sharing this
Are they recommending 0.73g of protein per pound of bodyweight? That protein intake above that amount produces no more Fat-Free Mass?
For many years now I've been going with a minimum of 1g of protein for every pound I weighed.
yes that's what the study found and it was one of the biggest ever done of its kind
basskiller89I rarely get over 150 grams in a day and I weigh 200lbs
I read the same thing and wondered. Sitting at 230 I would need around 166gm a day.
I think I'm going to try reducing protein by 25% for a bit and see how it goes.
I think IrishMack has it right. We should go by our lbm not just straight weight which I (at least) have not been doing.
like the guy above most days i eat about 150 grams a day
I eat 185g most days and 220g max. I used to be that 300g min on cycle guy and then was not eating enough carbs and to be honest I didn’t grow as effectively as I could have. The same when cutting carbs got too low too quick in favour of protein and I suffered.
I shoot for 1.5
Interesting.
interesting new study bit long but a good read
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2018/01/18/bjsports-2017-097608