+ 2 Trt
Well yesterday was a sad day. Was dreading the day when trt became a part of life but I’ve had bloods drawn 3 timed and did pct and tried to restart with hcg therapy to try and boost it but not luck once finished. My numbers are in the normal range at the low end. I’ve been working with an endocrinologist who hasn’t like my numbers in the bottom 10%. I started cycling just before I was 26. My total test then was 450-500. So I knew this was going to happen sooner or later. I just finally went to a doctor that knew what the fuck he was doing. So according to him it should help with the depression and sleep issues that I’ve had. He wants to see me from 950-1300. Started me out at 200mg a week and will adjust accordingly. And will get bloods done again on the 28th next month. Any advice on this will be appreciated
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With your numbers I would have tried other options before TRT.
450-500 ng/dl isn't horribly bad. Ive seen guys in the 100's.
I would have tried HCG therapy or maybe even CLOMID for awhile
then retest. Some guys are even having success with the AI's like
AROMASIN/ARIMIDEX used in LOW dosages.
The total wasn’t the issue it was the free and bio available that we are treating. It was lower last year in the 400 but after you have a Vasectomy your total test will also go up. But we were treating a couple of things this way also that I had been having issues with and had tried many other treatments prior to getting on trt. I actually didn’t want to deal with it for life but do feel astronomically better know that I’ve been on for a little bit now
Welcome to the lifelong injection club. I promise it gets old. I’m hoping for another 40 years of it myself. I have to check out the testosterone pellets. I’m so over needles.
My urologist is really trying to get me to go to the pellets. Probably what I'll do once I am done competing. Sticking a pin in yourself really sucks.
I just putting this update in I’m about 10 days and I feel amazing and I have my overall drive back also get to wake up with some morning wood again so that’s awesome. I’ve also gained 8lbs back no change in diet and I’ve lost a bit of body fat in the abodomin. Back to getting out of bed at 420 to hit the gym at 430. It’s nice to feel like my old self
I hear you bro, I’m pissed off I didn’t do this a decade ago. My ass has been dragging for about 12 years.
Wow this is encouraging! I am 44 and have an appointment in a week or so at a TRT clinic and this post has got me excited. Can't believe how many guys on this site are dealing with Low T and posting about low T. Wood in the morning? HAHA I can't remember the last time that happened to me...Been depressed for quite a few years, lethargic, messed ups sleep...basically I have all the symptoms. Thanks for the post! got me fired up about it now. I just hope that the doc does something about it. I checked my records and my T has been dropping significantly and is at 51 nG.
What he hasn't experienced yet is that by years end the feeling wears off and life sucks like it always has but in a peppier sort of way
Well thanks for shutting on my parade. No I know once your body reaches homeostasis again that feeling will fade. My life wasn’t really shitty just depression and no drive. Not even to really fuck or anything.
Trust the doc. Get estro right, you need your estro
Get to the point where #'s are good but dont need to bring estro down with meds. The depression is lilely a low estro side.
Personally, i wouldnt want to be too high with test #'s. The jury is still out on; too high test correlating to things like cv disease... research flip flops... but i would wonder if having the steady stream versus the circadian stream, is a negative at higher levels.... (just thinking aloud)
You should look to thyroid too while you are at it... free t4, rt3 and most importantly free t3, as well as the usual bits. To say these things are interconnectes is a massive understatement so while you work with a good doc... its the time
No need to be sad. Now you walk into cvs, walgreens, shop n save and get the good stuff. Always turn a negative into a positive. Its not that big of a deal.
haha yes that is how I'm looking at it plus i can fly with it which i do 2-4 times a month so that has made this a bit of a convenience still a lift time of sticking myself in the ass 2x a week but could be worse could be 3 times a day being a diabetic
Yep, I am in the same boat. I asked to wait for 90 days. I am running HG and wanted to see if I would get a little natty boost first. What is your starter dose my dock wants to keep mine around 600. So I am sure it is going to be a small dose for me.
Question? So is a number less than 400 considered low?
Guys help me out.
If you do enough research... and ive done buckets because i absolutely hate this bullsh!t of 1 range fits all... you will see that the so called average for 40-50 is about 600-650
If you are at 400 at this age, you are likely to have some low normal symptoms, probably around estrogen; little bit creaky, or cranky,..... or if also down a touch in prolactin (due to low estrogen); less strength in erections maybe or going soft sooner than normal but still fully functioning..... low dht due to low test will in a lesser way also effect the general operation of libido/desire and sexual function.
My last test, i was at 450 at 41 years old. 450 for me had my estro very low, just to the point of muscular /joints creaking and general fatigue. Also hard on's not as strong. Cranky as fcuk too. Basically becoming a cranky old man or en route.
So ranges... ranges are merely a measurement of 1 group of people at 1 time and applied to the masses, usually erroneously.
I can tell you for a fact, 450 is low for me, and if im at 300 testo, it brings my estro to the point where i suffer depression and that leads to bad things fpr most people eventually.
Ditch the ranges, treat the person.
Hold on ~600 for a ~45 year old? I’ve been low to mid 300s since I started getting tested at 19! Had a feeling this is why I always felt like shit. Doc told me at FSH and LH are fine but my nads aren’t keeping up so well. I’ve been exposed to a lot of OTCs, prescription drugs, and illegal ones so the endo told me that’s probably why. Finally a doctor that looks at numbers AND symptoms. I’m proud (and terribly embarrassed at the same time lol ) I pitched my first tent the other week in 25 years. Last blood work showed my test was up to 422. Due for more soon. I’ve only fallen asleep driving like twice last week so that’s a plus too.
Yeah 6.
See... ranges are this only; a broad ranging measurement of a population of various ages from various backgrounds (sometimes not), at a specific moment in time. The 1 thing it is not, is a measurement **of you***. Crazy right?
An African average may or may not be the same as a USA average. Many variables.
Somapplying 1 size fits all is a risk.... but a lot of work has been done across a number of studies to finetune the measuremrnt in recent years and break down specific ages. 40-50 is somewhere around 600-650 if i remember correctly. Check peaktestosterone and other sources for a hybrid trt practitioner/academic research perspective.
Keep working that curve fella. Delighted for your success and if 422 is fully functional both mental and physically, then its the right level for you, if not 100% then keep pushing!!!
Narcotics will drop your levels. I am not sure if benzodiazepines lower your levels too. I haven’t read anything about it. But they might since they have sexual side effects.
100% correct fella,
Narcos, ssri's etc
All can affect both test and thyroid etc.
That’s what they told me. I was prescribed benzos on and off for 8 years. When I was tested this last time it’s been 3 years minus 3 oopsies so I’m still low functional. Do u think hcg and the DHEA will maintai. The little functionality I have left during trt? He said I can pct me off of it if I can fix other causes such as sleep problems and diet. I have to eat a sleep study done soon
Ask your doctor to let you try Trazadone, it was the only sleep aid that worked for me coming off the downers and read the link below.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/over-40-trt/considering-trt-at-lown...
Your not likely to get a TRT script until your levels are flagged low.
And if haven’t done it already hop into Jarheads thread:
https://www.eroids.com/forum/general/off-topic/depressionanxiety-group
I was on that for years and eventually still couldn’t fall asleep or stay asleep. That was what they gave me coming off years of ambien. At one point I was on 1000 mg of seroquel and got down to 50 mg. Couldn’t stand the sleep eating and waking up in a pile of half eaten food lol. I’ve been all over those threads and the recovery group one as well. The herbal help seemed to work for a while and I’d stop when it didn’t but felt like anus at the end and while off. The doctor did end up putting me on trt while I investigate my sleep problems. Btw I was on a prohormone and two herbal test booster supplements when I took the blood test so he is assuming I’m out of range while I’m not on them
Thumbs up. That is what my doctor said. Even though I am in the high 300’s my free T was flagged low and he said it could have been low for as long as a Decade. I agree with that, the best I can do off supplements is maintaining. I also am grouchy and creeky all over and have a general bad attitude about everything. The range definitely is BS I just wish I started this 10 years ago when it first started to go low.
Next round of non official labs I’m going to throw my estro into the test to establish a baseline to work with.
I started GH a month ago and want to get some good data before I go forward with T I don’t want to wait but it would probably be wise because I have been off gear for a few years and my organs are as good as their going to be for my age.
Thanks again for the reply!
That’s the thing if you find a good endo that understand our hormones they will treat it different than any other doctor. Like I said my endo has seen guys that normal is 400 they feel great but me I’m at 505 and I feel like someone stuffed me in a trash can. But my free and bio are on the bottom end of normal. I’m functionally low. But I’ve had enough of the symptoms for long enough that I have been on anti depressants and anti anxiety meds and they do absolutely nothing. So I looked into a different route and this is what I’m doing now. But I also know from past experiences that when I’m on cycle I feel fucking amazing and I have no symptoms
Yep bro anti depressants just made my symptoms worse, I threw them all into the trash can. They just slowed me down and made my brain fog worse. Especially Xanax it was hard to kick but it is possible.
They all made me lethargic.
That's the thing with being classed within a range, you could be low normal for the next 40 years... so, feeling sh!tty everyday for the best years of your life and likely to self diagnose and cycle regularly...
Its ridiculous!
Yep cycling is the only time I felt good and I definitely understand why some people don’t want to stop and recover.
The total range is from 300-1200. So yeah 400 would be low on your total but if your free and bio are good then you should be good but would find a endo that understands trt and talk to them
Some people’s high is 400 everyone is different
Yep thanks, my free t was flagged as low. I am going to my GP Doctor today and get his opinion. I had to go anyway to get my regular labs review anyway.
+ thumbs up
I recently tested on 100mg/week test cyp:
Total = 980
Free = 158
My endo let me bump up to 150/week since everything tested fine.I go back in 2 months and see what that bump did for me.
Damn that’s pretty good for 100mg a week. From what I read was that every 200mg is roughly 1000 on your total. Not saying that’s right just something I read a few times. Only blood tests can confirm that as everyone is different. That conversion seems to have been brought up a lot since McCarvers 55000 total. So I guess I’ll get to see what 200 is for me next month. But if everything is good then I only see him once a year
Right now I'm having to go every 3 months, but first 3 months I wad on 100, second 3 months, now, 150, so if that looks good when I have bloods I'll stay there and hopefully not have to go in for at least 6 months, maybe a year, just have to see. My insurance covers it, all I pay at doc is a small copay and $15 every month at the pharmacy, so not too bad.
Well my initial I’ve paid 900 but it’s 20 for the script and now it’s covered by insurance because of the blood work. But I looked him up and didn’t get a referral so I got to shell out the beginning but I got tired of feeling like shit so it was money well spent to talk to someone that has some knowledge about it
Understand, I really do.
Just watch out though, make sure he doesn't keep bringing you in too often and making you pay big bucks every time.
I didn't have a referral either, actually met my now endo and primary care doc at an after hours clinic she was volunteering at after I strained a muscle. Wasn't bad enough for emergency room, but taking too long to heal, so I went there and she told me about her practice. Got lucky....
Yeah. He seem like a decent doc. And after the next round of bloods I should have to see him for a year. He said that way I can come in and do my annual physical for my insurance and do all the blood work at once and I shouldn’t be charged at all doing it that way. I will say the weirdest part was going you to the counter and getting pharma grade for 20 bucks I choked a little it was like Christmas all over again. Haha. And it was nice being questioned about needles and shit. It’s the small things in life.
No doubt, you know how much a 1 ml vial of pharma test cyp is cash price? 50 bucks..... one freakin' ml. I get 3ml every month for $15 copay.
Yeah a fucking 10ml is almost 200 bucks fuck that noise.
You should be able to find prices lower than that.
Yeah 20 bucks with my insurance
How much do you get for the $20, a whole 10ml vial?
Yeah 10ml
My pharmacy doesn't sell 10ml - used to, but not now. I asked why and they said huge risk of infection with multi-use vials so they only carry 1ml vials.
when you say "pharma grade" do you mean anything sold at a pharmacy or are you referring to more big name pharma along the lines of Pfizer or watson
Yeah I'm talking about what can be bought legally with a script, and FDA approved, at American pharmacies. Haven't been on TRT but 4 months and so far I've gotten Watson, Hospira, and Perrigo/Pelligro (something like that).
Try a compounding pharmacy, 10 mL vials and shouldn't be more than $50 or $60.
My pharmacy does compounds, but maybe not that. My insurance will only allow me to get a one month supply at a time. I found out the cash price because I thought maybe I'd just pay cash and get it all at once until they said $50 for a 1ml vial, so screw that, I'll just stick to the copay and getting refills every month. With the insurance I'm paying 5 bucks per ml so $50 per 10ml. Cash would be $500 per 10.....
I may look around though, make some calls and see what options exist if any.
Look into good rx app right now Walgreens is 41 dollars per 10ml vial
Roger that, will check it out. Thanks.
Anything over 650 and my doc freaks out. Suprised he wants you to be that high.
How do you keep it at 600 for your scheduled labs ? Do you lay off for a week or so before?
Whoops I read your post below
Yep ok cool