+ 7 Getting bigger and blood pressure
I am wondering that as you have gotten bigger throughout your cycling career have you noticed an increase in your bloodpressure? What I have noticed over the past couple of years is that as my weight increases my BP seems to follow correspondly. When I was 170lbs or less my BP was always like 120/70. Added on 10 or so lbs and now I am 125/74. Ten more pounds and now I am 135/75. Up to 200lbs and now I am over 140/70. Now 210 lbs a few years later my BP is sitting around 150/85. Lot of factors could be playing into this I know, but it just seems to coincidental that my BP seems to be following my weight. My diet has always been good and not changed much, except for the amount of food. Always excercising. Maybe just a fact of getting older, I don't know. Whether on or off cycle my BP always stayed elevated as my weight changed.Finally had to be put on some amlodipine the other day by doc so hopefully that brings it back down. So just really curious if this is happening to others. Also just a general suggestion here is to make sure you are keeping track of your BP.
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The BP meds seem to be dong there job. My BP has dropped about 25 points since going on them. My doc also put me on lorsartan along with the amlodipine. I have also put on another 6-7 lbs and BP is holding steady around 125/75. Real key will be to see if BP can be controlled by meds when running next cycle. I think what contributes to the high BP is putting on weight so rapidly. The slower i put it on the less impact there appears to be with BP.
I definitely see an increase with rapid gains.
Off subject a bit, but is your doc knowledgeable and cool with your activities? Mine is an old school martial artist/ retired military guy that still uses BMI. He calls me obese and says the added mass is strain on the organs, regardless of whether it’s fat or muscle. I don’t exactly disagree with him. I’ve bordered pre-hypertension a few times, and when I asked him about lowering it he said drop some mass. He’s a great guy, but we don’t see eye to eye on everything. I’d love to find a doc that was a bit more understanding of the lifestyle.
He "sort of" knows what is going on. Everything is off the books though. He works out at the same gym and I have gave him some workout plans.
IMO it also depends on the hormones that you cycle - anything that raises RBC will also raise BP due to the thickening of the blood - as I understand it. https://www.sharecare.com/health/blood-diseases/does-polycythemia-affect...
You are 100% correct. I had 5 seizures last year as a result of dropping the ball and letting my hematocrit get high enough to be in the polycythemia range. Along with the high blood pressure it can and will cause seizures and strokes due to restricted blood flow to the brain. It is also one of those things that will slowly creep up with little to no side effects until one day you are being wheeled out of your office on a gurney. It took six months of monthly phlebotomies to get me back in range, and thank God made it out without any permanent damage.
Amlodipine can cause ankle and foot swelling. I was on it for two weeks and they swelled up like balloons. Losartin and metroprolol for me now. Just wanted to give you a heads up
I have been on the amlodipine for almost a few months now with no issues but I'll keep than in mind.
I was on amlodapine and had awful dick problems. Switched to labetadol and same problem. I think they’re beta blockers and some people get that effect. I take irbersartan and it helps with BP but not rating heart rate
Then I'm sure you will be fine. I was on Lisinopril and amlodipine but the Lisinopril gave me a constant dry hack. Like I had a tickle in my throat. And the foot swelling. Dropped both and went to this mix. Sitting at 130/75 last time I was in. I'll have to monitor it when I start my cycle.
I heard the cough is pretty common with Lisinopril.
I was just recently (in the last week) put on losartan hctz which is a combo blood pressure med/diuretic. So far it has been a double edged sword. I have dropped a good bit of water and love the dry look, but muscle fatigue and cramping has noticeably increased when lifting. Nothing that can't be addressed with added hydration, but damn I look like I am sitting in a sauna when I lift!
Losartin is good. I take Nebivolol (BP and heart rate drug) combined with Inspra - a diuretic. You get a nice striated look from the Inspra with not so much muscle fatigue. It's not cheap - but worth talking to your Doc about. High BP will cause sweating, as will heart meds - it's pretty hard to avoid. As you already know - hydration is key. I also supplement with magnesium and taurine.
Thanks for the info Oz. If I am still experiencing increased mascle fatigue and cramping at the end of this month (next scheduled visit to the doc) I will certainly bring up Inspra. I am only five days into it at this point and he did warn that I may feel a little sluggish the first few days as my body adjusts to the meds, so I will be interesting to see how the next few weeks go. Honestly, the only time that I even notice a difference in the way I feel is during intense training. Other than that it is business as usual.
I would up water intake as you say but I'd also add some electrolyte powder or pills to your daily supplements........just to be on the safe side.
A recent stint in the hospital showed me just how rapid dehydration and lack of essential minerals can have you feeling like shit-to nearly dieing.
Just remember just because he/she is a doctor doesn't mean they are right.
Take care mate ;)
Thanks to you and Oz for the input. Very good advice! I had been on Lisinopril prior, but it was not combined with a diuretic. This is my first time taking an RX diuretic so it is somewhat uncharted territory. I am going to go out and grab some electrolyte supplements this afternoon. I should have thought about that sooner.
I think that the more weight you carry over your starting average healthy size the higher its gonna go up. Holding 40lbs extra muscle in my opinion will stress your heart and blood pressure more than if gou were 40 lbs over weight with fat. My reasoning behind this idea is that muscle has capillaries and veins in it so the more you have the more the heart has to work to pump that blood thruout the expanded vascular system... fat usually dosnt have any blood flow and thats one reason why it doesnt get burned thru spot reduction trainjng..( doing 1000 sit ups a day wont turn a beer belly into a washboard)unless other factors are dialed in... as i have got heavier my pressure has increased.... doc just put me on lisinopril......
You need to read more: 'When you gain a pound of fat, your body makes seven new miles of blood vessels. This means your body must work harder to pump blood through all of these extra new vessels, which may put a strain on your heart, and reduce oxygenation and nutrient replenishment in other tissues. Fortunately, if you lose a pound, your body will break down and re-absorb the now unnecessary vessels'.
Other sources claim 1 mile per pound. Either way, its a medical fact that fat does contain extensive blood vessels and blood supply. Paragraph 7 is pertinent to my comment: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/05/040510012211.htm
Blood pressure has always trended with my weight in my personal life. Also, I have made my career in Healthcare (business end, not a practitioner but still exposed to a substantial amount of data) and in general it does tend to trend with weight regardless of comorbidities. Of course there are things that you can do to help lower it, or push it higher. But, that is the general trend that I have seen in myself and others.
Great post.
BP has its ups/down with my weight going up and adjusting and obviously dependent on compounds used.
The rise of my RHR has been the biggest kicker for me as it has been the issue of getting blood donations in or not. I've even had my doctor write me a note stating it would be higher than "their normal" and to allow it to be drawn since I was deferred twice in a row with that being the only concern.
Genetics and age will always play a role but being "bigger" regardless of it being muscle or fat, there will always be negative side effects from being larger than your body was designed for.
I'm supposed to be 135-150lbs based on a small bone structure and 5'5" frame.
I'm 213lbs and have been as high as 222lbs this year (prior to my recent 25day break) and between 8-10% body fat. According to the "BMI" measurements I am very obese even though my body fat is low considering I'm in Grow season.
We can choose to drop weight or have to take more drugs to combat the side effect of being "too muscular" and heavy for our given frame.
Still trying to figure out how guys an inch or two taller than me can get up to 270lbs+...I used to think 220lbs was ridiculous until I passed that this year and AFTER my body adjusted to the new weight. It sucked at first between 217-220. Then 222lbs came and no big deal.
At 213lbs and a rather decent break from compounds/supps/training and also drastic caloric intake drop (your body works hard just processing large volumes of calories to grow) I feel good (look like shit IMO) and will hopefully get some bloodwork in etc. prior to next week before 3.0 process begins.
Stay health and train for PURPOSE!!!
Admittedly almost ZERO cardio unless you count the 5min warmup during leg days. I do plan on getting 10-20mins in 2-3x a week to start pretty soon and mostly for the reasons of good Heart Health. I am not however going to presume it will change things to much from a BP/RHR side
Yeah man it makes a difference. And cardio didn’t get it down for me either. It does lower my resting pulse.
Fortunately My Doctor helped me out with my issue.
When I am lean I’m around 110/60 with small dose BP meds I don’t like mine to get over 140/80 because I don’t want to blow a vessel.
Diuretics lower me about 10 points.
Plus I take another that is actually good for my kidneys it is a script, mild and it is free from my local grocery store pharmacy.
And it gets me in my range.
I don’t want to mention brands but it is available cheaper than my doctor copay.
And it keeps me from looking like a tomato on cycle.
“Get a prescription it will keep you from blowing a gasket”
Are u able to give me that info via pm? Consistently at 130/80 at 25 with meds isn’t a good sign. One time I sat on the bike to warm up and I was at 145 resting... I see a nephrologist that also specializes in hypertension that I’m sure would b willing to try. I’ve noticed the last 45 lbs I put on probably is the culprit. Almost hit 160/140 but I’m sure diet was a main factor there though
Yes for me there is a direct correlation with my age, weight gain and increased blood pressure...steadily creeping up. That said at 250+lbs my bp rarely goes over 130/80 while resting.
How’s your sleep been?
Diet I’m sure is on point...
Stress levels ok?
Good luck with the bp meds if you feel weird on the current one there are plenty of others that may work better for you....
I was natty for about 25 years and went from 63kg to around 80kg in that time and always had 120/80 BP. As soon as I started AAS my BP started to rise. I was only ever using very small doses, but as I put on weight my BP grew as well. My fav AAS are Test and Deca - both can induce bloat and excess water retention is one of the causes of high BP. That's why - if you have very high BP they will put you on a diuretic. My BP went to shite the longer I used AAS. When I cycled off - it dropped back to normal very quickly. However, I think that the long cycles that I ran, even low dose, finally caused permanent damage to my heart (no evidence to support this assumption), because last year I was in ICU with several complicated heart problems. I survived - and still run AAS at low dose, but I am on a number of heart meds for life. In our quest for what we perceive to be the perfect body - or the best body that we can have, we can do permanent, life-threatening damage to our heart. I know that I have - and I still keep training and using. The Test, Eq, Deca, Tren - all affect our BP and our heart, and if we are aware, we have read about it, but we still take the risk. My philosophy about AAS is 'less is more' and as I get older I recognise that I have three very important support organs that I need to survive - heart, liver and kidneys, all of equal importance, so I try to balance my desire (even as an old fart) to grow my body with the knowledge of the negative effects that AAS DO have on the body, which is why I avoid orals wherever possible. My heart has been permanently damaged, and I believe that some of it is a result of AAS use, The meds keep me alive. That's it. Not a happy place to be....but hey shit always happens to the other guy, right?
Now I am going way way back but the other coincidence here with me is that once I was put on trt which was about 6 years or so ago is when I actually started running cycles. All natty back then, only 160 lbs (145lbs competition weight), younger in age and no BP issues. Now many grey hairs latter, 60-70lbs heavier, on trt and running cycles now I am having BP issues. AAS obviously is part of the blame here, no way I could have put that much weight on without them. While on trt my bp was fine and was pretty good for first cycle or two but then after that is when it started to go downhill BP wise. The goal of getting bigger definitely does seem to take its toll on the body.
It's your thread mate and I don't want to crap on too much...just to say - I have always considered myself 'lucky' - my body responded very well to small doses of AAS. Most guys who knew I used didn't believe me if I told them the dose, but then - there is always a flip-side to everything. Perhaps I was also very susceptible to the adverse effects of AAS. The human body is an exquisitely balanced organic machine - so easy to fuck it up - it can be like a backyard mechanic working on a Ferrari...it's going to end badly through lack of knowledge and/or poor decisions. .
PepperonidaddySometimes mine goes up but it really goes up depending on what I am cycling. If I'm cycling Adrol or Eq it sky rockets.
Maybe a combo of all these things, a few points higher simply from aging or genetics, a few points for the added weight, a few points for cycling or trt, etc.....next thing you know you’re pre hypertension.....
Not sure how long ago you were 170, but 40 lbs is quite a change for the body to adapt to....
Thumbs up for being diligent and keeping up on your bp....
RustyhookerMine went up after 210 pounds crossed. 208 was 120/90. Im upping treadmill time to let cardio assist and possibly make the heavier weight be safe.
Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and throw in a little cardio now and then.
RustyhookerThe answers from everyone hold clues on how and why. Water retention, cardio, added mass, etc etc. Even our blood rbc getting too high, dehydration...the balance is wild at times. Im definitly headed sub 12% and just keep lifting butt off
More meat/fat on the frame = more pressure on arteries and bp will jump
Whatever your ground zero is, as you build it eventually moves the dial
Chech your hemo too... if it has tendency to go + it will raise dia and sys.
I found that after maybe a year of maintenance of new bodyweight it became normal and bp completely reset. Each time i broke plateau it rose. Most recently at 250.
Its the same with breathing (lungs), for me that is.
My BP has always been around 110/55 and very really gets higher unless I’m holding water which did happen recently and it went to 130/70 and incidently my weight went up 4kg in 3 weeks during this time. As soon as I dropped the water weight my BP dropped back to normal. I know you like your seasoning for cooking so watch the sodium intake. For me that makes a difference especially when there is excess water weight involved.
Good luck with the meds and getting this dialled in. Stay safe fella.
I do like those seasonings. Might have to cut back just a bit.
Makes perfect sense to me mak........the bigger the engine the harder it has to work.
A light cycle will definitely rais my bp a few points,but I'm religious when on cycle at checking my pb.
High bp was the reason I started a daily glasses of beetroot juice to bring it down.
Celery sticks will drop you a few points also for a while
I like the beetroot. I've have been using it as part of my pre-wo now for the last month or so. Wish I would have recorded my BP before I started taking it to see if it made a difference with BP. Just as a side note I very rarely use any stimulants like caffeine for my pre-wo. I think those stims can have a big impact on BP.
I'm The same buddy I don't drink coffee or any pre workouts that just don't agree with me.
I bet if you dropped the beetroot juice for a day or two you will notice an increase in pressure mate
Hypertension (elevated BP) has primary and secondary causes. Primary (or Essential) hypertension being the more common cause and usually deemed a genetic predisposition to acquiring it. Aka runs in the family. That being said, there is still a strong correlation between increased BMI and hypertension. Not just with fat as was stated below.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3968571/
This is one of the first decent studies I was able to pull up but I’m sure there are plenty more out there. N is small in this study but still worthwhile looking at.
I experienced the same thing as you, Mak. Minus the age factor. But as I got up in weight, and I’ve been as high as 195 at 12%, my BP shot up, as did feelings of lethargy. And everything else. It’s not healthy for us to be that heavy. Period. Never will be. Our vascular system has to attempt to keep up with all of the extra requirements that extra muscle needs. And that ends up (through various mechanisms) increasing our BP. We push past our genetic potential with the use of AAS and the body takes a toll unfortunately.
AnonWhat's more amazing is your record keeping of the changes your body has made, I wish I would have thought about that in the past because I'm sure my blood pressure has risen with my weight. At 18 years old and headed off to Paris Island my weight was 160ish, now I'm 35 as of today I weigh 262. My blood pressure has had to rise with my weight.
I would bet together this thread has a few hundred years of steroid knowledge. Pretty cool!
For me it takes like 3 months after pct for my BP to come down to normal. But it will go up on cycle with eq and dbol I’ll go up to 140/90. At 250. But went back to 110/65 after a few months but that seems to be my normal. I just take some aspirin and it keeps it around 130/75 on cycle. And it stays elevated until my body gets use to the weight. And then it falls.
180/105 without meds.
135/86 with meds. Was already high when i was a teen, 140/90 at 185lbs. I blame my wack job dragon lady mother for that tho.
For me its a combination of what I currently weigh, my diet at that time and whatever compounds I may be using. All those factors together determine how closely I will monitor my BP and what I will do if Im to hi. As I've gotten older I watch my BP more. Like with multiple compound cycling I keep track of what certain things do when used together or incorporated in working toward a goal. A big change I've had to make is in the compounds and/or dosages I use. Tren I just don't run and EQ and oxymetholone I use at a smaller dosage than in the past. Paying closer attention to little things like these have helped me keep my BP lower. Hopefully I can continue to tweak things as I go and keep enjoying doing what I love for a long time,to come.
I track bp at every donation and physical so 5-6 times a year. I’ve very fortunate to have inherited a very low bp from my grandmother and mother. Apparently it’s a mutation that impacts how my body stores and utilities sodium/potassium... long story short it’s never gone much past 90/60. Even on dbol and high test at 255 lbs or lean at 220.
Makwa when I hover at the 350 pound mark it’s 20 points higher than 290 pound mark
The most I’ve ever weighed was 250 & that was mostly fat.... I can’t imagine what 300 would feel like for me as far as my old knees & trying to breath lol & I sweat like a beast constantly.... dear lord I’d be a walking sprinkler! Haha
Oh trust me my knees ache..
I noticed the same by me, more weight -> higher BP.
Since I use 5mg bisoprolol / day my BP is fine again.
But I personally think that a bit higher BP is not bad cause more weight = more work for the heart.
Thats just my personal opinion!
I recommend everyone to check BP regulary and twice per year (min.) to visit a internist.
Good post Makwa!
Starting to see a pattern here.
The correlation between increase in fat mass and higher blood pressure is due to an increase in the required oxygen that the fat needs hence the heart has to pump more blood. Not sure whether increased muscle mass would cause an increase as well but I guess it is possible.
My BF% has never creeped over 15%. Overall yes I would have more fat on me just due to the overall increase in total body mass but the percentage hasn't really changed much. The amount of muscle mass has increased significantly though.