+ 14 T4 is NOT a fat Burner Using it is dangerous - Don't be fooled
Ok folks, there is a lot of bad info floating around the interweb. Some of it is in fact quite dangerous. Let's take a look at T4 because even here on our beloved eroids there are geniuses extolling the virtues of idiotic practices. Just to be very clear up front... T4 is NOT a fat burner! (6). Anyone who says it is or advises you to use it, is advising you to use a substance that can in fact help develop a thyroid condition or metabolic syndrome.
Let's look to the research and human studies...
Braveman et al showed T4 given exogenously raises T3 levels, therefore it converts. But they concluded that any resulting metabolic change must be questioned as to whether it is T3 driven or related to T4. (1). As this is confusing, we need to understand whether T4 increases EE itself, or can be used instead of T3, or can compliment T3 usage.
In a 6-year long, cross-sectional/longitudinal/follow-up study of normal middle aged men, Kim et al found that increased T3 levels can lead to metabolic syndrome(2). It has been found that glucose stimulates a conversion of T4 to T3, and fasting/dieting reduces this conversion, therefore in a calorie deficit, you may in fact be hindering this process, which is a problem as T4 doesnt significantly affect metabolism/fat loss other than via a conversion to T3 (3)(6). Therefore dieting and usage of T4 are not complimentary.
It has been proven in normal thyroid functioning women that the administration of L-thyroxine can increase serum levels of T4 and T3 with .3MG only marginally increasing BMR. Resulting in your pituitary supressing thyroid production (4). Basically, you have just given yourself thyrotoxicosis/hypothyroidsm by administering T4, where between 33%-60% of it converts to T3 anyway and only provides a resulting marginal BMR increase. (3)(4). Given the marginal increase of BMR coupled with the conversion rate to T3, it is more than logical to hypothesise that T4 in itself does nothing until converted to T3.
Given the previous hypothesis and the evidence to date perhaps a different viewpoint could add value, so lets take a look in reverse; Middle aged men often develop lowered BMR and increase fat %. Perhaps we can look at T4 there, or the conversion to understand whether we can reverse engineer a solution. Well in 2005 Polito et al (5) did this... they observed previous studies and their own in vitro studies showed that a decreased conversion of T4–T3 takes place, and that the older actors in the studies had higher plasma T4 levels. It could be argued that this perhaps proves T4 is worthless for fatloss, at least in older men, or anyone with lower BMR, but it proves increased T4 levels do not necessarily cause any positive changes to BMR/energy expenditure.
So let's be clear, T4 is NOT a fat burner (5)(6), nor does it make skeletal muscle less efficient which would improve EE via exercise (6). Couple study (5) with the other studies listed(1-4,6), and at best you can argue taking T4 increases T3 levels which can positively increase EE/BMR while giving you a thyroid condition or metabolic syndrome via T3 increases.
Oh hurrah. Fiyahhhhhhhh FTW YOLO, Gimme that T4... 3cc's all the way.
References:
(1) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC535757/pdf/jcinvest00221-00...
(2) http://www.eje-online.org/content/176/4/443.full
(3) https://www.nature.com/pr/journal/v13/n10/pdf/pr1979368a.pdf
(4) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC302354/pdf/jcinvest00181-00...
(5) http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v59/n2s/full/1602299a.html
(6) http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/thy.2007.0037
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basskiller89I tried running high T3 when I was younger. All it did was make my heart rate go through the roof
Hi, thanks for sharing the post.
thanks for info. was thinking of taking t3 but i think i stick to clen and eph500.
Great post Giardap, good to see stuff like this on eroids. I'm looking forward to more of your work!
Ffs I accidental liked my own post, smooth!
Cheers fella!
Its ok to like your own post, when complimenting the T4 research
Such posts as yours are to be considered nothing short of excellent and deserve a +1 as a min lol
;-)
srt8cali+1 great post bro. fuck those pussy negs
Cheers pal!
It's all good man!
Wow thanks brother!! people need to pay attention when it comes to messing with their thyroid it can be lethal good looking out!!!
Exactly.
Even if we were to be a proponent of the possible benefits of a T3/T4 conversion, a simple cost/benefit analysis would put you in reverse!!!
It's dangerous and all you need to do is speak with a lad like Jay and you see exactly how serious it really is to mess with these hormones. Most people dont have an iota until it becomes a problem, but hey, why make it a problem in the first place?!!
Your so right unfortunately it seems like nowadays so many just start using a substance because everyone else is & half the time they don't have a clue what their even putting in their body's tell like you said it's to late!!!! Its almost scary!!
It's rampant really isnt it? it's everywhere too, nolva front loads, caber despite not having elevated prolactin, ai's from the very beginning of a cycle, inexperienced users mixing ai's and serms, massive test doses, badly combined compounds, don't get me started on the YOLO dosages floating around lol
It's like we've all forgotten how to think for ourselves, but as an old teacher of mine said many moons ago.... "you're an individual, just like everybody else" - in other words, we're all the same in many ways!
WHO THE F $!K NEG THIS POST. IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THE BALLS TO NEG SOMEONE ALSO HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY WHY YOU NEG THAT PERSON.
PLEASE EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE GENTLEMAN AND LADIES.
WHO EVER NEG AND RAN YOU ARE A FUCKING PUSSY!!!!!!!!!
Seems to be allot of that pussy fuckin negging going on lately I think it's someones that got the advice they needed and not what they wanted so they negging everyone
This!
Don't let it bother you man, it doesnt bother me!
I say, let the evidence be the guide!
I wish a mod would tell me who it is if its an actual member and not a troll im going to tear him down
More than half of the karma OP has handed out has been negs, i doubt giarda owned all 155 negs of his.
Just sayin....
Pussy negs still suck
Nah I definitely didn't own them all, that's for sure man
I generally try to only neg bad/dangerous/mis- information, insults and spam - that's probably an over simplification and certainly a generalisation but also probably reasonably accurate
The negs actually followed over from another post where I spanked a fella (no homo) for saying T4 was a fat burner. He and his pal didnt like it as I told them to stfu handing out dangerous info (not your style of comms now for sure, but I consider it serious as it is in fact dangerous, for themselves but also the less aware who might read the (bad) advice)
And another one
We the best
You keep dropping hits brother +1
I very much enjoy reading your posts please keep them coming.
Any chance we could get a post about the truth behind hgh what is possibly the ultimate placebo?
Cheers brosef!
Im working on a IGF (Lr3 and Des) at the moment, lots of reading and although I wanted to steer clear of HGH I ended up getting into it. Its all very related, so hopefully have something worth having a read of soon. Did you see Makwa's thoughts over his recent cycle? I noticed a few things here said here and there, definitely worth connecting with him and asking as he seems to have noticed interesting things Re: fat loss/muscle and keeping gains post cycle.
Not only is this another great post by Giardap,it is becoming common for him to,not only enlighten us,but to show us the studies,where he derives his opinion.Very Nice!I however am not that disciplined,but have seen a recent study that seemed to show that T4 would actually make you fatter over time.+brother
X2 on the great post, definitely doing his homework. Helped me along awhile back when I was figuring out some mobility/pain issues
NotNatural23Now I took t4 for when I was on hgh and I have been on it for to long so I am gonna slowly wing myself off. I went off in 3 weeks before and levels were normal but at the low end. my free t3 is at the high end when on and lower end when off. I hope I didn't fuck up my thyroid permanently. I am gonna slowly ween my self off. Never took more then 100 mgs a day. But do have a question I had an aunt who had hypothyroidism took t4 and lost weight but she has leveled off with normal levels. Not skinny by any means now.
Evolution is on your side brother, but only time will tell.
Re: yourself and your Aunt, you should connect with Jay. He is particularly knowledgeable on this stuff, from his experiences. Really good guy too, very experienced.
She is still taking her meds? Or did she stop when she leveled off and stayed there? When the thyroid does not produce enough hormone we gain weight. Sounds like she was diagnosed, given the correct dosage and as her tsh rose her metabolism sped up hence, she dropped weight. Now the question. Does she get regular testing? I go every 6 months. But that is because I am good with taking my meds....now. i wasnt always. They must be taken with a lot of water and on an empty stomach maybe 15 min or so before eating. If this is not done kinda wasting her time because shes not getting what she needs. Another reason could be her tsh production is still diminishing. If she is taking meds properly but her levels continue to drop she needs a med adjustment.
+1... solid post
Great post, a lot more women are starting to turn to t4 as an added fat loss booster instead of dialing in their diets. There is so much legitimate research out there. All one has to do is know how to run a proper search.
Thanks Izzy,
Yeah its terrifying to think, there is a generation of people developing all sorts of health complications out there just because of laziness and the quest for the magic pill!
Obviously the negs are coming from if I had to guess a member who is under the age of 25 using T4 lol.
"Those guys on the eroids board know nothing"
"The guy who sold me the T4 is jacked and he said not to worry about anything I mean he's in such good shape he must know what he's talking about"
"YOLO"
LOL yep, something like that Goose!
The negs followed me from another post where I gave another posted some stick for posting a T4 (among other things) protocol for fatloss. It's that type of false info that is rife and very dangerous unfortunately.
Hopefully this short post will give an alternative opinion.
why are 2 negs in this topic. all giardap wrote is correct...
Pussy negs strike again.
If you dispute the post come back with facts, not pussy negs.
Every fucking neg on this board should come with an owner!
backonroidsGreat info mate as always ! I've learnt something new today , cheers +1
Cheers brother. Learned a lot on the research myself.
backonroidsI honestly never knew about T4 not being s fat burner and have found this post interesting . I love researching information it's mad the info you can find !
Ignore the negs - Haters going to Hate
It was only the other day I was researching about t3 and t4 haha! Giardap really does have alot of knowledge id been meaning to send him an fr for a while! Always great to have these guys with experience and knowledge to pick their brains!! #alwayslearning
I would be curious who down voted you 2 times for this post?
I give you a pat on the back for trying to get this info out to others who are very much uninformed. I agree it's crazy people are playing around with their thyroid to shave 1-2% of body fat. Lol.. how about they just get a proper meal plan. I'll never understand that shit.
Maybe if you have a pro card and ARE ACTUALLY GETTING PAID to destroy your insides go ahead and use it. But the average joe who just wantes to look good and feel good... I would never advise to use it.
Diet??? Food?????????
No way man, that cycle is TOO complicated lol
;-)
Wondered about the negs myself. X2 on the using compounds not really needed by gym bros
Ive said it on every thread relating to t3 t4, thyroid function whateverthat ive read..imo because of my experience with having basically a non functioning thyroid gland everyone should be really careful using this stuff. Its not test or any other hormone. Thyroid controls SO much of your bodys functions and if you fuck it up you will be stuck taking a pill every day for the rest of your life. I rank this up there with another product that is a no no but rhymes with slim. People hear that some body builder used it now they have to do it too not knowing how much damage can be done. Its easy not to worry about your body when your in your 20s and early 30s but when your older and realize, hey I didnt die from all the shit I took BUT now I have to LIVE with all the consequences of poor decisions. Yea YOLO but we should want to make that 1 shot we get as healthy and as long as possible.
Yes.... just yes, exactly this Jay, well said man.
Funny thing is, those lads living with those decisions will be lighter (muscle), fatter and unhappier than before they started the whole process.
At least most people on eroids can open their eyes and consider a different reality based on real info, and real experiences like yours man.
Well said! I think the same way about research chems too.
100℅ agree I was reading up on t4 the other day. T4 is an inactive throid hormone it doesn't have any effect unless converted to t3. So if it's ingested and your body has normal thyroid function it will have no benefits on weight loss. If your body already has enough t3 then why would it covert the t4 to t3 when the body already has enough? From what I understand the t4 component will not do anything unless your hypothyroid in terms of fat burning fat.
Cheers dude
Yeah man its absolutely crazy. There is so much misinformation out there. These hormones are so important, in terms of normal functioning. To switch them off through the use of T4 etc. when there is absolutely no real benefit to doing so, is absolutely crazy. It's scary though because, you really don't have to go far to find advocates for it.
I'm still a bit of a newb but am always researching there are so many guys that just take things with very little to no knowledge of how these drugs actually work it's crazy!! There is a guy at my gym can't be any older than 26 that is doing a crazy cycle and nomatter what I say to him he just doesn't want to listen he just comes out with oh no this guy has told me its ok!!! (The guy that's told him this is the one selling him the gear) he's been running t400 with tren a, deca, dbol and adrol. 2nd cycle running the test deca and tren a for 16 weeks dbol first 10 weeks and adrol last 4 weeks! Didn't even know what PCT is because he didn't run it on his first tren and test cycle and all because somone has told him he'd be fine!!! More and more people just listen to 1 person rather than researching what they are taking and how the body reacts to these compounds.
backonroidsThis story is too familiar , people need to open their eyes
That shit is crazy! Ive run into that person as well. Never taken anything before but wanting to use tren. By itself mind you, no test. Fuckin asshole. Anyway, I think what it is and we see this on forums all over. Somone goes in with a plan, and its foolish. Mos people tell him no no no. Start over, do shit right, then you get the one person who validates themnd THATS who they listen to because deep down all they wanted was to hear someone so go for it, you will be fine.
Thats why guys on this site preach about getting all the info from someone asking questions, age, exp, goals etc because all it takes is the one person to give a piece of advice to someone not ready then off that person goes doing something foolish. I recently did this and was called on it. I'm glad I was because it made me step back and see the big picture.
Holy fcuk that's unbelievable
Well, he will be asking the girls in the gym advice for bra's soon enough lol
Ah man, thats absolutely crazy. Natural selection will catch these lads out soon enough though I think!!!!
It's absoloutly crazy that some people can be so niaeve! I feel you can never do to much research as knowledge is power! I don't claim to know all but I'm learning day by day And if I can cut out some of the bs and help someone from damaging themselves then that's a bonus for me. Your a very knowledgeable guy and would be good to pick your brain in the near future I'm going to send you a fr!
Gent!