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Dickkhead
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+ 66 Best Liver Protectant ☕

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There are so many products on the market today each making claims to guard one’s liver from anabolic steroid induced damage, I thought I would read through a couple of scholarly articles and write something that is understandable and useful.

Steroid toxicity is not a widely researched topic in the medical community, probably, because it affects too few people.

The less the liver is able to metabolize a steroid, the more toxic it is. The more androgenic and less anabolic a steroid is, the more toxic it is. Liver toxicity is not confined to oral steroids, but those are the chemicals that do the most damage.

So, what does that mean? One of the most toxic steroids to the liver is mibolerone (cheque drops). It is not metabolizable at all and is excreted in the urine as unchanged mibolerone. It is not known exactly how the C17 alpha-alkylation of most oral anabolic steroids causes liver damage but it is observed as I stated above that the more androgenic an oral compound is, the more toxic it is, so we are left with the hypothesis that since C17 alpha-alkylation blocks the liver hormone that would normally break the steroid down into useless metabolic components and allows the steroid to pass into the bloodstream that the androgenic activity of the steroid in the liver is somehow the source of the problem.

How is the liver damaged? Bile flow is impaired. Steroids cause the liver cells to swell and hold bile that would normally be secreted into the digestive tract. The damage caused by bile acid accumulation in the liver is called cholestatic liver damage. As bile gets backed up in the liver we see increased serum levels of AST, ALT and GGT. The retained bile salts are so toxic to the liver cells that they can cause the liver cells to die and create an inflammatory response further exacerbating the situation. If enough liver cells die, bile ducts can be destroyed.

But, not all bile acids are toxic.

The oral administration of Tauroursodeoxycholic acid (TUDCA) will assist the liver in producing bile acid metabolizing enzymes that will break the toxic bile acids down into less toxic compounds. TUDCA is itself a non-toxic hydrophilic bile acid. While the exact mechanism is unknown, TUDCA will also reduce pre-programmed liver cell death called apoptosis and will stimulate impaired bile secretion of accumulated bile acids.

TUDCA is the most potent form of liver support currently available.

Milk Thistle extracts have liver tissue regenerative properties, are excellent anti-oxidants but don’t impact cholestasis. So, while they are excellent at overall general liver health they are not adequate protection against the ravaging effects or oral anabolics.

Essentiale Forte is a phospholipid complex that has been shown to help clear toxic bile acids from the liver. It is an excellent supplement and probably the next best thing to TUDCA. It is produced by the pharmaceutical company Sanofi-Aventis.

N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) supports the production of Glutathione, which itself is a powerful anti-oxidant that can protect the liver against toxicity but once again is limited in its ability to treat cholestasis and is marketed in many preparations with poor bioavailability.

Liv-52 is an excellent blend of antioxidants but will not treat cholestasis.

Dosing of TUDCA – 500 mg / day while on a cycle containing oral compounds. It should not be used more than 8 weeks at a time or for the duration of the cycle as it can have a negative impact on lipid values.

For general, year round, liver support, I would look to Milk Thistle.

References:
http://forums.steroidal.com/educational-forum/54-liver-aas-induced-hepat...
http://antaeuslabs.blogspot.com/2011/07/few-words-on-hepatotoxicity-of-1...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3089004/

Skipper34's picture

I've used LIv 52 many times, it seems to help with a hangover too if you take a couple prior to a heavy drinking session, off cycle of course:)

Merhan's picture

,

Manshit's picture

It depends.If you take orals take tudca.Pretty simple.Everything else you take is good.you may want to add glutathione.Choline is also a lot cheaper that phosphatidycholine,and probably works as well.

kibby's picture

Mate....your asking a banned member a question

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flapjack's picture

so are you lmao

kibby's picture

Whaaaaaat?? :(

Dude was active when I replied.....doesn't count

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flapjack's picture

lol

i20bpm's picture

Found what I was looking for about udca and it was here all along just 5 yrs ago and kibble you were right it seems.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/supplements/tudcaud...

i20bpm's picture

Has anybody used udca I was told that it works great for liver support buy somebody a while ago I got some and never used it I just need more info on it. Now don't confuse this with tudca the name is udca

Manshit's picture

Ursodiol,is the drug name,there is a lot of info on google and it seems to have many studies that show it to be effective in unblocking bile ducts and dissolving gal stones.It works by dissolving cholesterol.

i20bpm's picture

I just read a study where it said it didn't reduce cholesterol here's the link

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12611908

kibby's picture

It has nothing to do with cholesterol bro... It helps with Fatty liver and blocked bile ducts but tudca is just udca with taurine added I think and also tudca is easier to get hold of. (In the UK it is anyway)

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i20bpm's picture

I don't know it could be just with added taurine but I'm not sure that's why I asked you know and I don't really want to just take it till I get a definitive

kibby's picture

Tudca Definitely worked for me bro but you could also read upon choline and inositol...probably the best combination out there bro.

Happy reading ;)

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Manshit's picture

Actually if you google it, that,s one of the first uses listed,dissolving cholesterol based gal stones,for people who do not opt for surgery.I do not have any experience with it and also use TUDCA.I was just repeating verbatim what was said in uses in wiki.

kibby's picture

Yeh but it doesn't affect cholesterol directly,it works it's magic in the liver. A clean and healthy liver with full blown bile flow won't store fat in the liver which in turn will eventually lead to better cholesterol levels
(If diet is clean and healthy).
But it doesn't work say how a statin would work....does it?

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D_N_A's picture

Dissolving cholesterol is a direct effect .. Although does not imply reduction. Dissolving would be very beneficial to gallstone sufferers since the primary stones involved are formed from cholesterol. Which when present make a person miserable. They impede the flow of bile from the gallbladder and can even obstruct the tubules in the liver.

These days doctors opt to remove the gallbladder and claim that its an unnecessary organ which couldnt be any farther from the truth as it hellps to break down the fat soluables .. So I guess if you dont need vitamins a d e and k then you really do not need a gallbladder.

We will see more evidence of its usefulness once these gallbladderless people reach a certain age I suspect.

kibby's picture

I have to disagree with you there pal.

Statins work by reduceing blood cholesterol and prevent atherosclerosis, or heart disease. They work by reducing the liver's production of cholesterol. They block an enzyme called HMG CoA Reductase that the liver uses to make cholesterol.
(Direct effect)

Tudca only increases the bile flow which clears toxins from the liver which in turn reduses the build up of fat stores leading to a more efficiently working liver. This will NOT reduce cholesterol on its own unless diet is changed.
(No effect on cholesterol at all)

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D_N_A's picture

I understood that it did not reduce cholesterol.. The discussion was on dissolving or the breakdown of cholesterol. The cholesterol level would therefire be unchanged as you say.. However for the sake of gallstones it would be beneficial to dissolve the stones since the majority of gallstones are primarily made up of cholesterol.

That was the direct effect i referred to.

I probably was not very clear in my post.

Thanks for your response.

kibby's picture

Sorry mate my bad....I've miss read what you wrote pal. ;)

Its All good

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Manshit's picture

I would agree but you already know more than me about it.I only googled it after I saw the post.Thanks for the info.

kibby's picture

Its cool.....as I said up top choline and inositol work even better than udca/tudca....well they did for me bro

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Manshit's picture

i use a product called choline cocktail,which is a combo of both,but i also take a glutathione milk thistle combo plus tudca.Hopefully that protects my liver when on orals.

i20bpm's picture

I feel like NAC works better for me also but I don't have bloods to back that up yet

kibby's picture

Yeh I read somewhere over a year ago about NAC so I used it in conjunction with tudca, it gave me real bad heartburn so I stopped it......and the smell when you open the packet lol

They still use that for drug overdose?

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i20bpm's picture

LOL yeah it doesn't smell great but it works. And I'm not too sure about that I think you might be thinking of Narcan. They use that for overdoses with opiates

kibby's picture

Sorry mate I may have got them mixed up. ;)

But definitely have read up on choline and inositol. Very cheap to buy but also very affective loads of literature on them. ;)

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i20bpm's picture

Yes I know all this from the research I did but like I said I can't find anything on it used as a liver protectant from orals

i20bpm's picture

Ursodeoxycholic acid someone well over a year ago told me it was better than tudca. I had a chance to grab some so I got it but from my research I couldn't find anything on it helping with liver support so I never ran it. So it just sits there collecting dust and probably going to expire within a year at least. If anybody has any info on it I'd like to hear it

Manshit's picture

I edited see above post.

stockton209's picture

Do you know if there is any change to buy Essentiale Forte in USA? I usually get it shipped from Europe it's one of the best things on the market.

TheFlash85's picture

Gearhead. I know your here somewhere under another name.
Your a cunt and i hate you.

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Manshit's picture

Why do you hate gearhead?Or were you joking?

TheFlash85's picture

Coz he was a fucking fraud just like i said from the day he joined when he asked for methamphetamines in open forum, then i copped a ban for calling him out on it, then it was proven when i was gone.
Plus he was a bible bashing/ preaching liar who acted like a celebrity when he wasnt, he talked shit all the time and i knew he was fraudulent all along.

Does that answer your question ?

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Manshit's picture

Yes actually it does,and thank you for responding.He had gotten into an argument with one of my good friends and it escalated to a point were his bs was evident.My friend asked for a pic and he negged him repeatedly.The discussion ended up getting my friend banned,as others who believed his bs joined in the negging,and my friend said bad things about the board.It was sad too because my friend was very knowledgeable but now refuses to take part.I read later that he(gearhead) had posted a fake pic and the threatened a MOD and then was banned.

TheFlash85's picture

He is probably the most pathetic member has ever seen, he is even below monster 666.

Absolute joke of a member.

Hope hes wanking over his bible right now with his "pnemonia"

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kibby's picture

HAHAHA!!!!!!

Straight to the point lol

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katysmile's picture

What are the more obvious manifestations of liver problems? As a person who has just begun to use steroids, it is impossible to notice any changes in body. who can help me to notice the phenomenon?

MetalJackie's picture

Yes, bro, I agree with mini muscle. First of all, you should get experience in training, diets and gain a good muscle mass. Taking steroids is a very difficult process. Your body must be ready for it.

mini muscle's picture

26 years old and 60kg and you've started steroids? The board advises against such young guys being given steroid advice with little to no experience in the gym, and with no diet knowledge.

Liver damage will manifest in various ways depending on the drugs taken. Blood work is key but everyone is different in terms of physical manifestations due to drug reactions.

Learn the ropes of diet and proper training not steroids. Stick around and you'll learn a lot but you're not ready for steroids.

MetalJackie's picture

totally agree with you, bro

kibby's picture

Read down mate.....it's been mentioned a few times lol

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TheSniper's picture

I use tudca, nac, and MT. But I have also heard a lot of people use N2Gaurd, not sure how effective it is but it is definitely pricey.

ynot's picture

I thought c17s were none toxic interesting

Maxriptx1106's picture

I read a couple forms that some use Tyler's Liver Detox. does anyone know or have ever tried?

kibby's picture

I've even doing research for the past year now bro for an up coming post.
Let me tell you and I have bloods to back it up water alone is probably the best tool for a good detox.
Research two products called, choline and inositol

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