+ 14 Time for a reality check
Before I start, if you think this post is directed at you, it probably is. But not just you, you're just one of a number that need a reality check. Not to keep me or anyone else on side, but for your own good. So before you take it like a personal attack, digest it properly.
The world of steroids has changed dramatically from when I was younger. The internet being the biggest part of that change. Anyone who has a trivial amount of cash can order gear, get it delivered to their home and start pinning it without leaving the comfort of their living room. That was different in my day, you had to be deemed "worthy" by the gym dealer when I was younger. Let me give you an example of what I mean from my early twenties. I was 6-1, around 210-220lbs I'd guess at that stage, BF pretty low, 10-12% I'd say. I was in good shape. Around 23 years old I asked the gym dealer, (an ex Russian powerlifting champion) about buying gear. It went something along these lines:
Cat - "So can I buy some gear from you"
Dealer - "Can you bench 3 plates a side?"
Cat - "No. 2 and a half (120kgs) for reps" (I thought that was impressive at the time).
Dealer - "Then fk off until you can"
At the time my thoughts were "what an arsehole". But guess what he was trying to tell me? Build a better base. I didn't like it, but if I'm honest that conversation probably made me bigger now in nearly 20 years on. Why do I think that?ecause to be "worthy" in his eyes I had to get stronger. To get stronger I had to get bigger. My "natural" frame that was supported by nothing more than hard training and huge amounts of decent quality food became 230ish. Nowadays I believe that enables me to hold onto a much bigger frame than I could have done had I started gear earlier. I've had multiple surgeries, chemotherapy and yet still never dropped back below about 240. I thank that guy, "the arsehole", for telling me to fk off.
So what's the point here? Almost everything I read in terms of cycles these days is guys that have developed very little natural base and it's taken them several cycles to reach what I'd still call a small frame. If it takes you multiple cycles to be 6ft and 180lbs, wakes wakey time, you're getting it wrong. Add more steroids, you're still getting it wrong and you're avoiding the real issue. Until you realise there's something you're doing wrong, (and it isn't because you're a hard gainer or because you like to lean bulk), you're going to end up stuck in the same cycle, still without the size you're apparently so desperate to achieve.
I know it's frustrating for the new guys that here this message or get comments like "don't need steroids you need food", I understand that. I've been there and I got pissed off too. This is about being truthful with yourself, assess what you've achieved, does it stack up? If it doesn't, it's very rarely down to your steroid use. Because it's so easy to buy gear doesn't mean you should start using it when you've been training for 5 minutes, or at least that's how I see it. I've seen the phrases"steroid junkie" being used a lot recently and I'm starting to think that's what the easy accessibility perpetuates.
Is that you? A steroid junkie? Time for a reality check. You're only kidding yourself.......
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Agree. I'm a powerlifter and today while finishing my bench routine, which consisted of my last set being 345x3 paused (I'm currently 185lbs) an 18 year old kid asked me what kind of gear I take to be this strong. It pissed me off, It was almost insulting. I said look man, you don't need steroids to be strong, or big for that matter. I told him at the moment I am natural because ive been off gear for quite some time. Before I ever touched Steroids, I was strong and built like a fucking ox from all the years of training. Ive used plenty of gear don't get me wrong, but I've reached some of my biggest numbers being 100% natty. The ONLY reason I've used them, is to break through plateaus. I know most of you are bodybuilders looking for all that size, but for my fellow powerlifters..... You can achieve your goals with MINIMAL DRUG USE. Trust me, I totaled 1510 RAW at 181 at my last meet, drug tested and all. That being said.... I have a deca n test cycle coming up soon to help blast for my next meet, which isn't drug tested by the way.. I want that 1600 total! Lol happy lifting mates
Sadly the problem is not just the gym youth getting their hands on aas - it's all about instant gratification, quicker / harder / faster and the sooner the better with no regard for the consequences of their actions, and considering back in the day, one did not have access to internet/instagram/facebook and other forms of media where you get to see airbrushed detox-tea-selling "fitness models" on a daily basis. Yes, they are a form of inspiration to some but the some don't see the photoshop, the makeup artists and can't see the truth. The some see the muscle and the inspirational quotes, which i can't stand, and think 'they did it and so can I' or 'He's massive. I want to be massive. I'll just do steroids and I'll be massive too'
I was always an irregular gym going youth, I say youth but I was in my early 30's, till two and half years ago when I decided I had had enough of my skinny pale frame. I got a trainer and worked my arse off, yes he kept pushing the 'do roids, you'll get massive, you have a great shape and it'll only get bigger and better. I'll pin you dont worry'. I refused and purely from eating, sleeping, and training (without the trainer) I gained 21.5kg and got stronger and bigger. I've had a few bumps but I've stayed as consistent as possible...
it can be done but it's not the easy way out like aas as been glamourised to be.
I really like this because I practically went through the same shit I started skinny and pale as well. First day I stepped in the gym I was 110 to 115 pounds after the first year I was around 165 to 170 depending on the time of day, just from eating sleeping and training my ass off. Alot of kids think it can't be done without steroids. Even the guy who ran my gym thought I was using gear or at least prohormones cause of how fast I was moving up. I told him I went from eating maybe 2000 cals a day to over 5500 a day damn near overnight. I had gotten so sick of the "you're scrawny when you going to gain weight" shit and the "I shit bigger than you" and the "I could snap you like a twig" insults and pushed myself. I made wayyyyy more gains naturally than I ever did with aas and that the truth!!!
Good post. Nailed it.
I believe shocking the body from heavy short sets to high volume sets after 8 weeks will make anyone grow. High volume doesn't necessarily mean cutting up at all. After 16 yrs of lifting we all find our own ways of manipulating the muscle memory. Began aas more than a year ago and have noticed more mature muscles but I'm not mixing orals and test, deca and bold are the only aas I'll ever use. Mid thirties seems to be a good age to begin gear but that's including at least 5 years of hard work in the gym
Cat, you are always a pillar of sound sane and safe advice.
+2
I'll hold out until 220 to start my cycle. Sitting around 203 now. Take a lil while. I can bench 315, deadlift 450 range, and squat over 400. Idk my squat max but the last set of my leg day was 350 for 5.
Like I said to you in your other list, you could cycle with where you are, you have a decent muscle base. Nothing wrong with pushing further forward naturally either. You're not in this category I'm referring to above ;)
I don't wanna make waves here or anything cause its an awesome post but what does benching three plated have anything to do with anything? Not being a smart ass I'm just asking? You can build muscle and Alot of it benching 225 15 reps at a time, i know dudes 265 lean who never preas 3 plates.... just saying man lol
I think you've skimmed through missed the point Rob. It's an example of what people consider to be a strength base. What these guys regularly push is irrelevant. They didn't get to 265 lean pressing 225.
Gotcha.
RustyhookerLoud applause!
TrigguhHappy1442Ha ha my first experience was similar, it took tough love to keep me safe from myself.
Amen brother!!! Many of us have been saying this in our forum posts or in others asking for help but your real life example is the perfect way of bringing the issue to life. Thanks again for your knowledge and wisdom. I hope some listen and get it. This is going in my favs to point others to.
Yes, yes, and yes. If you've reached 1 young mind with this post it is successful.
I found the problem lately, it's now you can buy a bottle of test for less then the cost of a tub of protein so its turning out an awful lot of junkies. I always wondered why I see so many posts from folks doing grams of gear. I would have never started doing aas if it wasn't for my prescription and when I was younger we did everything all natural and ate like no tomorrow. It's a whole new world where folks think the magic cure for obesity, poor diet, training can be found in a syringe full of test.
315 for a 1 rep max isn't asking for much on the bench. 405 for a squat certainly is not asking for anything. I would add that being 200 lbs.+ for an average height dude isn't a big deal either. Any strong young man with gym training can hit those markers.
The first hardcore gym I trained in you had to be "sponsored" into by one of the vets. You had about 30 days to prove you were "Orange Ave." material. The regulars like Spike and Lizard would watch you train. At the end of the month if you were not viewed as pushing substantial weight you got the boot and your money back.
None of the young guys were roided out. But they were big powerful kids by any standard. Most guys started juicing in their late 20s. They went from big to monster big. Strong to freaky strong. That is what steroids are all about.
The kids on this website have no clue what real muscle is. They don't know what it is like to be massive and powerful. They see a guy now and then who is a real monster and they probably just piss in their pants. They think they are gonna take their frail little bodies and transform them using drugs. They keep polluting their bodies with anabolics cycle after cycle and cannot understand why nothing is happening.
They reject the notion that you need to have some serious size and strength BEFORE using roids for roids to do anything. They don't want to put in the time and effort.
I'm not gonna help any of those guys. That's all I can do. I read a post and look at stats and it screams "steroid junkie" then I'm out. I'm just one guy on this board among thousands but that's all I can do. Control my own behavior.
You and I have talked through this before, we both feel the same. The part that I wonder is if we're just set in our ways and our approach is becoming almost obsolete. Then I look around and see guys that started running gear at 160lbs. Years and many cycles later they weigh 175lbs. That tells me although old fashioned in our approach, we're right. Nobody I know that I'd call a real "big lump" did it this way, they did it by building a frame first.
very good way to put it
Seems to all revolve around impatience,insecurity, and ignorance. I did my 1st cycle in my early 20's (peer pressured) and didn't use an AI or even proper PCT until 5 months after last shot and am blessed to still have Natty test of ~600 at age 30. I preach to younger users on and off the internet to try to steer clear of gear but that's like telling a high school kid not to smoke pot. You can only do so much. Nice post mate +1
Great post. I actually like the idea of a three plate litmus test. I think three plates is absolutely achievable for most guys while all natty. If a guy can't genetically reach that point while all natty....really, should he even be using steroids in the first place?
For dure it is achievable. I know a guy a few years older than me that weighs 170lb at around 12% BF. Won a few natural competitions when he was younger, never touched gear in his life. Pushes 3 plates for 3 or 4 reps no problem. Whilst I didn't like the feedback I got in that example above, that guy was asking me if I could push 1.5x body weight, that's all. If you can't build enough to bench 1.5x body weight naturally, you're going to struggle to build any serious size.
Meh, I don't judge a man by his bench. I judge a man by his squat. Too many corndog looking fuckers in the gym can hit 3 plates on the bench, but can't do a plate and a half of the squat if their life depended on it.
Yup. Too many barrel chested, chicken legged gym bros that can only deadlift what they bench. +1
That's because your homo mentality has to keep eyes on bro's asses in the gym.
No homo
God damnit Ed I thought we were keeping that a secret between us two!
No homo.
If I was judging it on squat I'd say 4 plates a side minimum. Once you're up to 7 you get a big boy prize ;)
675? Bro, that's about my limit. 585 (6 plates) I do every week and then usually 635 (6.5 plates) for my heaviest set and on RARE occasions 675 (7 plates). Unfortunately I keep thinking of the J. P Fux disaster that ended his career as a top pro where after a show in a depleted condition he went to squat 675 outside of a power cage for a Flex magazine photoshoot and his legs gave out.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=80026.0
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=141290741
I've done 8 a side, 340kgs, so 750? That's as far as I'm going.....
Jesus christ... I guess the bright side is that I've got what, 15 years to work up to that?
That's 765 bro. Dang, that's some powerful squat. I'm never gonna be able to do that for certain. I guess legs are not your weak body part??? LMAO LOL
Was always a strong lift for me, even when I was a teenager. I think a lot of it comes from training in Judo from a really young age. That and I'm one of those odd balls that actually likes training legs
You are 6' 1" as well man. That's even more impressive. Us shorter guys can pull something like that off more easily, but at 6' 1" Yikes.
Can't deadlift though. 575 tops with ugly form.
Oh, c'mon man. I know both of us are bodybuilders not powerlifters, but a guy with your strength? You just need a pro powerlifter to work with you a couple of months on the different techniques. When I switched to Sumo my deadlift got a lot better. If you really cared enough about it I bet you could get to 800 in less than a year. LOL
A couple of dodgy discs don't help ;) I guess it's lack of confidence mainly in that respect.
I have carried to realy big girls to bed does that count
That depends how "big". You're not still playing those FFM games with fatties mate are you?
Unless they're seriously ugly, yep, it counts.
They keep you warm in the winter
Oh don't you worry yourself there sugartits, I'll get that big boy prize one day.
No homo.
3 plates is just a warm up phsss
You don't count bro, you're too massive. Yoke carrying you back and forth across the gym would be more challenging than hitting three plates.
i came out of my mommas womb with three plates
Yo momma was three plates....
That's not something to brag about, apologize to your mother.
Sorry cat
Yourdadthree plates from each side are 140 kilos with the bar. To achieve that performance you need to lift for 6-7 years contingency maybe more....add the injuries etc. Those quys are training 3 times a week for 1 hour and want to jump into steroids. Most of them are training for 1-2 years. They think they will be at the "steroid" development for life.
Personally I don't think a lot of people can lift 140 kilos natty and work easy on the bar....and I don't mean for 1-2 reps...I mean working out with 140.....1 in 1000 can do that. The big problem when your natty are the injuries.....
I'm pretty sure that I know how heavy 3 plates are.
6-7 years...meh, not if they have their diet and workout dialed in.
1 in 1000.... I don't know about that either.
You need to leave planet fitness and start hitting a better gym.
Yourdadthanks for the advice....I will try to find a better gym.. What gym your training at the moment?
Yourdadold school talking catalyst...well done