Having trouble growing been off and on for 8 years. Need serious advice. Don't be a dick.
Ok so I have debates with people who are not in the same situation as me all the time. My joints have always fucking killed me. I have been stuck at 315 for 5 for 2 years now. I am currently on 900mg of deca 900 mg of test enethate and 5 iu's of angtropin also tamofixen. My body has changed TREMENDOUSLY over the years. Thats not why I am asking though. I have not made any fucking gains in 2-4 years. I have lost a lot of body fat but I have not grown in years. My workouts have just become longer. Which is good because I love doing it but I don't think I can get off the deca without the joint pain. I tried last month was off for 1 month and I had tremendous amount of joint pain. I have tried anadrol, it has helped a little but really only 1-2 reps. I religiously workout. Its my escape. Does anyone have any solutions? Maybe tren? I hate tren because I hate the way it makes me feel like I am having a heart attack but I would give it a try if anyone has been in my situation and knows anything. Thanks in advance. Also not just my bench, squatting, back, arms, shoulders. No growth. Chest is just easier for me to explain.
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Is 900mg the absolute threshold were you joints don't hurt you? Just curious, have you tried dialing it down some?
I'v been on the gear for just over two years my gains stopped after the first 8 months so now I'm going clean for a while to freshen up my receptors once I come back on I'm excepting some good gains I think you should do the same.
GlobalMikeHas to be the diet, do not concentrate too much on the weight that you are moving. That is over rated. If you are not growing then that means you are not consuming enough food, period! Try throwing in an extra meal into your diet and that should get your weight going. Does not have to be a huge meal either. See how it goes, and if you gain over the next month, you can increase it or add yet another meal. I am not saying junk either, but a proper small meal that has good micro's and macros in it. Do not train for hours either as what I have found from personal experience it can become counter productive actually. I love to train but I love to look better though. hehe! Focus on the muscle being worked on as well, pump and go. Your joins will thank you later as well. Training heavy is fun when you are young but if your joins are going, trust me. Leave the ego at the door and focus on the muscle, screw the weight. You will have an overall better development as well this way (again from personal experience).
Testrogen_PropC...Brother I really think your problem is just diet and not switching things up in the gym. I hate to sound like Piano, but you need to eat big to grow, and you need to change up little things in your workouts every once in a while to continue to gain if you're stuck in a plateau.
To fix these, what I would do is 2 things.
1- is obvious, up your calories by 500-1000/day
2- either switch up exercises, or even just do your workouts backwards. I've been starting my chest days with flat bench for years, last week I started with incline and ended with flat, and I was sore as shit!
Another example of this would be instead of doing mil press, dumbell mil press, side laterals, rear delts (assuming that was your regular shoulder day/lineup) do the shit backwards.
Rear delts first, dumbell mil press, barbell, side laterals etc. Hope this helps bro. If you eat big and change shit up in the gym, you WILL grow. Esp on almost a gram of Deca and T/wk.
switching up angles and handles helps; starting with different loads, not always working heavy, starting wide and working narrow and then flip-flopping. I agree, lots of ways to change it up - you might even be able to cut back on the doses....
Well, I have to say I am glad I posted this and am still going to have a blood test but I finally got that 6th rep up for 315. I am going to move up to 335. I have gained 2 lbs in 4 days so I am ump to 212. I am also going to try your routine. switching up musicle groups can do a world of difference. I am going to gain 10 lbs this month and try to get clean gains (meaning no fat). I did a lot of reflecting with the advice you guys have been giving and I realized I have never changed up my diet. On those big family holidays I would gain maybe a lb or two but burn it off the next day. I was very consistent with that. I've also realized I've gone from 226 to between 208 and 210 for the last maybe 6 years. You know that feeling when you think you can only do 4 and you've been stuck at it and then you get those extra two reps up. It's like a euphoric feeling. I finally have that back and it made this post so worth it I don't care some people were critical but if you can't take criticism don't post anything. It was all constructive so thanks guys and I will give you all an update in a week when I get the blood tests done and let you know how much I have grown (if eating was the problem which I think it was) It feels weird to have to gain weight because I've always been worried about losing my abs lol but it the feeling of making gains outweighs all.
Just to give some food for thought there's a series of workouts I wrote about 18 months ago if you look in forums in my profile. Might help you change things up a bit with some fresh ideas.
I definitely will look at them on my lunch break or after work. I was so worried about losing what I already had I think that I was afraid of changing stuff up simple stuff like my diet and my routine. Having the balls to post this though and receive critical feedback was a big part I think to me changing it though. So I appreciate all your guys advice and help and will keep you all posted with the labs and progress.
So heres what I am doing per your guys advice. It had been really stupid of me to not eat if I am trying to get bigger so I added 500 calories to my diet starting two days ago. I plan on putting on 10 lbs in a month. I am also going to get blood tests done not this week but the following week. I don't think I have done anything wrong because I usually take 3 months on 3 months off sometimes i stay on for 6 months but I always give enough time for my body to get back to normal. I will definitely post the results when I get them. I am going to gain weight but eat clean still just more. I haven't probably done a real bulk in years which is a problem. I've realized what I have been doing is kind of just keep what I have and try to lose the little bit of fat I have but that is stupid because I do have abs and am satisfied with that. You are all right, I am not doing the right things when it comes to eating. Maybe the blood tests will show us something that is I am doing wrong with my cycle as well. I will keep you all posted for results and my blood test results. I really appreciate all the positive and constructive feedback. Sometimes you do have to get back to basics and eating is as basic as they come. I hope there is more than just eating. I am also going to change up my routine. I will post my new routine compared to my old when I write it up.
How do you know you're "back to normal" if you're not getting blood tests?
If you're on for 6 months, how long are you taking off? If you're running deca for that type of duration your blood work is likely to be ugly, very ugly.
Fella the more I read the more cavalier you approach looks.
Also here's what I do know. My cholesterol has always been low and so has my blood pressure. I know because I do get blood work done every check up and the last one was 6 months ago. My thyroid is in the normal range and so are my liver and kidney enzymes. I have the results on my computer and I will see if I can find it. But to say I have never had a blood test would not be accurate. Nothing has ever been out of the normal ranges.
I've only stayed on for 6 months once. You're right I don't know if my body is actually back to normal but the one physical I get a year I do it after being off for 3 months and I ask my doctor if everything looks alright. I do neglect to tell him I have been on so I'm sure he's not looking for the right things. I will get a blood test done very soon. I will also update with progress as I have not eaten to grow in years and was frustrated with not getting results but what's that saying he definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. What I guess I was going a little insane because that's exactly what I was doing. My blood test is probably going to come back pretty ugly. And I will post the results.
Are you telling us that you have been in a caloric deficit for years? You grow on food, so when is the last time you did a real bulk?
A few things that this can be:
Lack of adequate nutrition (2-2500 cals)
Constantly low estro (No blood test)
Same routine over and over (stated below by OP)
Afraid to gain weight (OP states he's afraid to bloat)
Too much training (trains 6-7 days wk)
Get a blood test and clean this other shit up. Tren is not going to fix any of those problems.
I am going to get a blood test. Also I just started back up on a cycle I took three months off. What do you think could be the problem that a blood test would show? I get a physical once a year. I also have not been eating to grow. I posted this and forgot to put in my diet. I work out almost 7 days a week. I eat after every workout but I limit my caloric intake to around 2000-2500 calories a day. My body has turned from the Michellen man to almost having real ab definition. I have gone from 226-208 last time I weighed myself. So there is a lot of things I guess I am doing wrong eating wise. I probably am focusing too much on the gear and I realize that now. I don't really drink and don't do any other drugs. When I go get a blood test what do I ask? I will gladly post my results so we can get to the bottom of this.
You want (at a minimum)
Serum Testosterone
Free Testosterone
Estradiol (E2)
Prolactin
IGF-1
A thyroid panel would be nice . . .
I'm pleased to see you've taken the feedback correctly. Too many big babies around here that throw their toys out of the pram when they get honest critique. Get your blood work done and let me know if you want me to take a look at your diet with you.
+2
What would a blood test show me? I am definitely going to get one and post the results with all. My diet is most likely the problem. I have lost weight since I plateau'd. Its constructive criticism and I can benefit from it so of course.
RustyhookerPrivatemdlabs.com . It will give your body readout. How's your cholesterol, thyroid, fsh, lh, liver, kidneys etc etc etc.
You could be so outta wack on just cholesterol that you're literally walking dead.
No see that's what I know is normal. My cholesterol has notroiously been low and so has my blood pressure. My thyroid function is normal and so are my liver enzymes and my kidney numbers. These are things I know for a fact. I got my stuff done 6 months ago. But I don't know about my igf levels and any of that. I actually may have a picture on my Computer of my last lab results. I will check when I get back home.
RustyhookerNo worries. Folks here just try hard to watch/help out folks. What we do has hazards so its nice knowing folks will help.
I know and I sincerely appreciate that. So I have gotten blood tests because I do know that. But I have never looked past that because those are the main things that usually go wrong with a person. I have always watched those numbers. I agree I am looki forward to having your guys advice with this new blood test
Bro, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but when was the last time you got a blood test? I just have a bad feeling about your hormone levels and IGF-1 level. I agree with the comments below as well regarding diet and training but to be stuck at 315 on bench for 2 years? That's a natty bench bro. The joint pain issues might very well respond to a chiropractic protocol (myofascial release). You may have spinal issues you're not aware of. But, dang, I would love to see that blood test. You can find out what to order and how to order it on here if you live in the US without involving your doctor or insurance.
EDIT: I mean honestly bro, with the Deca and Test you are running you should look like the stay puft marshmallow man unless you are taking strict dietary measures to avoid it which I have no reason to believe you are. Not even a mention of ED with a 1:1 deca test ratio. All guys would at least bitch about this a little in a post like yours. I am dying to see your blood work. I have a suspicion but no sense in freaking you out with it just yet.
moojBit of an overstatement, 315 for 5 isn't a natural bench press in 99% of peoples books.
What do you think the blood test will show? What could be such bad news? I will go get a blood test what do I ask labcorp?
I mentioned his Deca test ratio but im not getting into cycle specifics and neither should anyone else until we get to know of his history and get his responses to current questions and what not. This guy has some serious things to fix.
I think folk are being logical when they talk about diet and training here, but, bro, honestly, I think his blood test is gonna be shocking. What he is talking about is not bad diet and training although they may be way off. This IS actually a gear question. He should be bloated like the Michelin man, but he's not. The water retention alone would have increased his strength, but it didn't. There really is only one logical answer for this but I don't want to make that call without actually seeing it on a blood test.
If his food Intake is inadequate and he is not resting enough he will not be blown up like the Michelin man he is in a deficit and will be flat and on the weak side as far as muscle goes. Drugs do not bloat you alone diet does. I know guys who prep with Deca and the likes.
I've seen guys with phenomenal bloods showing test ranges through the roof but their food intake is way on the low end so they don't grow and are flat. Then ive seen guys with shity bloods grow and look right but they eat their heart out.
The over training along with under eating will keep his body in shock.
I'm interested to see his prolactin levels.
Drugs sure do bloat you all alone and diet is the only way to control the water retention (aside from estrogen control, aside from prolactin control drugs). Yes, you can prep on deca. I wouldn't but it's possible. You can manipulate fluids, sodium and carb intake to reduce the bloat but I don't think he's doing that with any precision here. If you pin test and deca to tune of 1 g / wk each 2g / wk total and eat a "normal" diet and drink a normal amount of water like an average person does, you will look like the Michelin man and it won't take that many weeks either. I'll go one step further. You don't even have to go to the gym for this to happen. Just sit on the sofa. But GH I know guys that . . . Tony, there are exceptions to everything . . .
For instance my joints only hurt when taking hgh. When I don't take it I don't have that issue.
Bro he's over training and under eating by a long shot Givin his stats hence why he isn't going to be bloated. He isn't eating a normal diet he trains 6 days a week with a little under half of his needed nutrition. Hence why he isn't bloating up. Now if he eats whatever and a ton of it he will be bloated bro. I am running 800 msgs of test with 600 msgs of Deca and I have veins running down my abs. If deca just bloated you up regardless of diet id be there. But go head. I've ran twice as much and had the same effects. Drugs alone don't cause it by themselves. Deca wont bloat you no matter what just like tren wont rip you up by itself. But I'm outta here. Hopefully the op figures out his issues.
You're a better man than me, clearly. Twice as much? On 1,600 mg of Test and 1,200 mg of Deca I would not have veins running down my abs. I can't even imagine how much Letro and how much Caber I would need to accomplish that besides diet. Na, I couldn't do it. LOL Maybe it's my age, 38. Perhaps if I were your age again? Na, still don't think I could get there. I do think that's impressive, though. I mean that sincerely.
Done it a hand full of times doesn't help any so I run smaller dosages. Just more side effects. But I'm able to moderate my intake to stay right where I want in the mirror. If i eat like shit and a ton I will blow up.
That's the problem. I haven't been eating nearly enough. I went from looking like the Michellen man to having ab definition. I get that now. I think I am also Affraid that when I put on weight I will gain fat and that's stupid of me if I am trying to get bigger. I am going to get a blood test though because I am interested and I will post the results
I haven't near the experience as many on here, and I am sorry you are having such terrible joint pain, but I agree that you may need to re-evaluate what you are doing with you workouts, food, and gear. Have you had joint pain all your life? Or has it been jsut since you have been doing cycles? If you were not on gear, I would suggest an elimination diet: eliminate dairy, wheat/grains, and legumes for a month, and then slowly re-introduce each thing until something triggers the inflammation that is causing you pain. SInce you are on gear though (and apparently quite a large dosage), it will be impossible to tell what the trigger is. Cutting back on working out as suggested by someone else would help too, 5 days instead of 7. The inflammation may be coming from your body never really having a chance to recover, even though Idk what kind of split you are doing. On your off days, just do some stretching and foam-rolling? I hope you find a solution and relief soon.
Most impressive....but you are not a Jedi yet.
Impressive.
You've mentioned nothing about your diet or your training, just a solution involving drugs. You're also running huge cycles because you think that's the only / main way to get stronger.
There's a clue....
Really?
take a step back and reevalutate. screw the drugs. if you are on that much gear and not growing something is wrong.
GO BACK TO BASICS.
tony is spot on. YOU need to rest. lift 5 times a week instead of 7.
shit, eat burgers and some ice cream if you need to gain weight. potatoes are your friends, fully load taht somabitch with some cheddar and sour cream!
I reccomend dark matter protein from mhp.
if your joints are hurting grab glucosamine with MSM
Your Deca to test ratio is way off. Your emphasizing drugs too much. Not out of the ordinary, very common in fact. If you want to grow you need to shorten your workouts. You need more rest (hence why I train one day on, one day off sometimes one day on two off) it's not about the dose of drugs , or which compound you use. Your diet and meal timing need work, I'm sure your training isn't perfect.
x2. what does training and diet look like? sometimes its not about how much weight you move either brother, but how you move the weight. especially if your having joint problems. try slowing down the negative, super sets, etc to try and stimulate growth. there are more ways to increase tension and intensity than just adding weight to the bar.
if you have been hitting it really hard nonstop for a prolonged period, you could possibly use a sort of small deload peroid for 3-4 weeks before getting back into it hard again. a well rested body runs more efficiently. i have the same problem, i run myself into the ground sometimes. by taking a step back every once in a while we set ourselves up for a growth spurt once we start pushing hard again.
i assume its strength gains that your looking for mostly? you say your body has changes an enormous amount? understand that strength is not a linear progression, a lot of big guys arnt pressing enormous loads, that doesnt mean they cant build great, thick dense muscle. are you looking at this from a bodybuilder stand point? or powerlifter?
Yeah see here's the thing I work a lot and travel and have only been eating 2000-2500 calories a day. I probably have to go back to basics. My body has gone from looking like a fat Michellen man to having pretty good ab definition. I always eat after I workout but I know I need to eat more. I've never had a deload month since I've been 15. I don't know if I could do it lol. I also almost never change my workouts up. These are all things I need to reevaluate. I work out 6 days a week sometimes 7. I am looking at from a bodybuilder standpoint so I guess how much I'm benching, or military pressing shouldn't matter it's just so frustrating not growing.
lol trust me i understand. i LOVE training. i live for it. i reached a point where less became more. after finally being talked into toning training down for 2-3 weeks, i was amazed at how much better i felt. not sure how to explain it, i just felt fresh. pumps were awesome and no weird aches or pains. to top it all off when i came back and hit it hard i had a growth spurt like i hadnt had in a long time. now i understand its a process.
and i dont have to explain your food brother, you know better than that. my experience has been when you start taking diet as serious as your training, the progress you will make will be far greater. nutrition is the name of the game in bodybuilding. i dont travel often, so i cant speak on that. im sure it becomes much more difficult, but if there is a will there is a way to get it done. when i do have to travel i make sure to get a hotel with a small kitchenette.
hope you soak up some information here and are willing to try some new things to take yourself to the next level brother.
I was going to go into depth like you did but haven't had the energy. Great response bro. If i keep seeing responses like this in these forums I might start getting involved in them more.
thanks brother, dont give up on us yet ;)
i try and pitch in where i can. i know what you mean though, so many knuckle heads asking the same questions looking for answers like "up your test and add in tren", same guys havnt had a vegetable for 3 years, wont eat carbs past 6pm lol, and get 75% of their protein from protein powder.
its not the drugs thatll put more meat on you man... food, calories. thatll give all those drugs nutrients to synthesize to build that new tissue you want. more drugs, less drugs, different drugs, none of that matters unless you are eating accordingly to what you wish to achieve. you want to gain more weight, grow more tissue, then simply eat more. whatever you eat right now. increase it by an extra 500 cal meal. do that for a week or two. then increase another 500 ect. until you do grow. simple
It's food your not eating enough very simple your eating just enough to maintain .. Up your calories per day =growth
The first place I would go to for a fix in that situation is the diet. Sounds like you may just need some more calories period. You can hit up the diet clinic they're great over there for helping with any goal. Outside of that, there may be more technical fixes but that's my first go to when I hear no growth from someone