Tren Sides
I've got some Tren Ace 100 and I'm tinkering with a few ideas for a future cycle. But I'm concerned about Tren's harsh sides.
For prolactin sides I have brand Cabaser. I have Arim and Nolva both brand for test aromatising sides / Gyno / PCT. And brand Clomid.
I seemed to handle drol just fine and it's a hell of a kickstarter but utterly hepatotoxic of course. I'm thinking of running some winny alongside test to protect soft tissue and collagen damage from test.
I also have oral tren - highly hepatotoxic too of course. Waiting on equipoise. Waiting on primobolan.
Can anyone suggest ways to deal with tren sides(chose acetate so I can be clear in a few days if sides get out of hand).
Can anyone put together a good cycle from these compounds? Bulking cycle that is. Everything is brand name except for test suspension and Anadrol but the Anadrol is all good. And what do recommend for getting rid of water retention? Do you find an HGH bridge between cycles allows you to hold onto gains? Thanks
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I have a question. I'm currently pulsing drol one day on / one day off and test 750mg a week and happy with gains but getting water retention / bloat. For the last 2 or 3 weeks I was going to drop drol and take Winstrol 50mg ED. Would that be effective? I don't want to lose gains, cut and bulk again. I'd prefer to just clean up at the end of cycle with winny. Thanks
Make sure to keep sodium levels at bare minimum too.
Get some aromasin in man, water retention's caused by elevated estrogen levels.
Kind of a strange way to pulse the drol, but if you think it is working that way I guess keep doing it. If you are bloating with the drol, it is more likely an issue with your diet and/or AI. I don't bloat whatsoever with it and I know several others who are the same way. You're muscles should be blowing up but you shouldn't be experiencing much subq bloat, unless your diet, AI is off. I also think that bloating with drol is more common for people with higher BF. With bodyfat in the low teens or lower individuals seem to complain less about bloat with adrol. Bump that BF up and the complaints about bloat seem to rise also.
What do you mean by "clean up" at the end of your cycle with the winni? Are you talking about taking it to drop water weight?
It's the 750mg a week test that's caused a little water retention I think. And yes, I was thinking a little winny at the end could help with that. I've addressed some of the other stuff in my reply to kapsize.
Thanks for your help guys, it's great to have experienced hands to ask. Constructive criticism always welcome too.
Why do drol EOD like that? Bloating on drol is diet dependent ime. No don't bloat on drol unless I'm eating a lot of junk. Winny is the poor mans Anavar imo. Waste of money unless you're in contest prep
It's the test causing bloat I think. It's not a lot, just enough to hide my abs which were visible before I started cycle.
And about pulsing drol - I was intending to pulse one week on / one week off but my research led me to believe that's not going to spare my liver. I read one day on / one day off for 2 weeks = 40% of liver damage expected from one week on.
Drol half-life is like 9 hours so one in the morning before training gives me heaps of energy / strength. Drol has been good to me and no sides. Minor water retention is from highish test. It's no big deal.
By clean up at the end of cycle I just mean getting rid of water. Drol / test is a pretty dirty bulk and I think a little winny at the end would help. Already got winny but I'll keep in mind what has been said about it. Thanks
Well running another oral just to "clean up" after a bulk is overkill imo. Why put your liver through more. If it's a bulk, then bulk. Don't worry about water. If you are truely worried don't use winny for that. Masteron does a better job of pulling subq water out imo.
Pic now uploaded
The fact that you were disappointed with your first and only "test only" cycle has me extremely concerned man.
Do you realize that you should be ecstatic! Feel like you're floating around. Are you sure your gear is even legit ? Something is extremely wrong with your training, your diet, or your gear If you're not happy with your results.
What exactly are you on if you just started 2 weeks ago? Also, how could you be experiencing gyno related symptoms already ?? Forget about tren bro... You are NOT ready for it. Simply put, you need to take a look at some other things first.
i should add, I'm not hypogonadal so I feel fine without exogenous test. I'm guessing it makes hypo guys feel better but I feel the same.
Cycle started with Anadrol. drol was great but when I dropped it and kept on with test e I didn't get the same pumps and feel as day 9 when drol and test were working synergistically. Gear is fine - bloodwork shows test through the roof.
I think test levels are close to peak now but no pumps or crazy energy like with drol / test on day 9.
AnonHow many cycles have you ran?
On first now. Disappointed with test only - loved drol. Going to try dbol next time and Tren with low dose test - caber for prolactin sides. Won't need an AI with 150-200mg a week test.
Tren for a second cycle with joint issues already a problem...? Please seriously reconsider what you're doing. No one can stop you doing whatever you want, but everyone here is trying to help keep you safe and healthy because they've been there. I'm still fairly new(ish) to juicing and a large part of my knowledge is through research (I'm a bit of a nerd), but nothing compares to real experience. The experienced guys commenting here have years and years of cycling. Listen to them. I know I was just gonna do whatever I pleased on my first couple cycles not too long ago and I ran into some problems and learned things the hard way even with all my research. You really don't know until you've used these things.
Dbol with tren your bp is gonna be through the roof. Mine shot up with tren at 25mg a day. Won't need an AI?? The dbol is gonna aromatize into methylestradiol which is even nastier than normal E2 and combine that with the prolactin raising effects from tren and you've got a recipe for some excellent D cups. Prolactin loves a high estrogen environment and once it's out of control you're in for some issues. Just be careful and know what you're getting into 100% before you jump into this and stay safe man
Yes bro. Exactly. +2
Great post, thanks. I should indeed be very careful which is why I was asking about countering collagen depletion and so on.
Regarding my joints, I get some shoulder pain with overhead press and heavy bench. It's not a shoulder mobility issue. But yes, I have to be very careful hence the questions. Thanks again. Thumbs up.
TronIf you're scared of tren dont do it.
Fuck that. I'm scared of bitch tits but with weekly bloods I can keep e2 levels where I want them. Cabaser for prolactin sides. I was just wondering what else would be good to have on hand.
TronCool. Glad you figured out the answer to your question.
Had gyno issues, stopped?
So why are you trying to put together such a complex and hugely over the top cycle?
Really? The above are all quoted from your own posts. Since you've been here you've posted some pretty random stuff, What's the deal here?
It was just tenderness for a couple of days - no Gyno. I just freaked out a bit but it's gone now.
Okay, random stuff? Not sure what you mean. I'm on my first cycle now and I was throwing some ideas around for next cycle. I'm afraid I'm not an orthodox kind of guy and I don't always follow the rules. I kicked off with drol and next time I intend to pulse dbol throughout my cycle. Maybe:
Tren Ace 50mg EOD
Test suspension 50mg Every third day (and a long ester depot)
Dbol 50mg ED
Regarding complexity - test suspension is not cheap so I intend to use it only until a longer ester depot takes over. Dbol 1 week on 1 week off for 8 weeks - maybe more as the breaks in between allow liver recovery.
Note about hepatotoxins - drol is the most toxic of all orals and advice is no more than 4 weeks however it's prescribed at doses 50mg - 150mg+ ED for years for people with anemia. My liver function is fine and I'm going to keep checking it regularly but I might break some rules there too.
RustyhookerTROLL ALERT. READ PRIOR FORUMS.
REPLY OF THE OP. IM DONE HERE
replyFlexual 2 hours ago@Rustyhooker NEW
I don't post stats. They're largely meaningless for bodybuilding
My stats are on my profile. I don't intend to update with how much water I've gained or lean mass I can't retain post cycle but I've put on 12 lbs in a little over 2 weeks so 212lbs.
I was talking about numbers being meaningless for bodybuilders. I used to lift way more than I do now. I use pre-exhaustion for example. That's one reason numbers are largely meaningless for me. But I used to back squat 425lbs for reps and squat is my worst lift. Not that strong but I do higher volume and reps for lower body.
Dear god did I read that right?? You're running winny to fix collagen/joint problems? The absolute worst possible choice for this? Larger tendons with weakened cross sections should be avoided... It's been responsible for several injuries for people trying to compete in weight tested sports who then snap their shit up. It looks like the advice you were given was someone who knew just enough to sound convincing but be wrong.
Nandrolone, eq, primo, or even Anavar would be much better choices for that. Be careful most primo and some var is fake.
Why are you wanting to run tren and get stronger before your joints can handle what you're going through now?? I'm not gonna screw with advising you on the rest of it especially tren without stats prior cycles etc but I have managed to fix a lot of injuries on myself so it is possible but please don't make it worse. There are much better plans for this than the one you laid out
Some good points thanks. It's a long way off so I've got plenty of time to learn.
Rosser01I find a low dose of test keeps the sides at bay when I'm running tren..!!
RustyhookerHas the op submitted anything stat or prior cycle related? Did you see his other post that's posted below? We don't blindly pass tren advice here
5'11"
212lbs
13-14% bf
Currently, test e 750mg a week and kicked off with drol but dropped it on day 8. I followed advice to drop drol but would like to pulse it throughout the rest of cycle.
Rosser01My bad sorry about that and I did not read enough into it
Bro, do you have access to an exceptionally good trainer? (They are extremely rare). Trying to train on your own with a litany of injuries and really continue to progress is an almost impossible task. The trainer I have got took a guy who couldn't squat due to scoliosis and worked with him where he eventually placed in the nationals in BB. I realize this is expensive, but so is gear and supplements, and food. When I read your profile I thought to myself that you have issues that gear isn't gonna fix, bro. Training issues.
When I started squatting 5 years ago I couldn't go below parallel. I had to open my hips - stretch hip flexors. I had to strengthen posterior chain and core. Now I front squat deep and have no problems I can't resolve. I just have to de load my spine a lot using hip belt squats, Glute Ham Raises, split squats, kettlebell lunges and variations, high step ups, isometric squats etc. But no, I do not have a trainer.
RustyhookerNeed your stats and priors.
Your knowledge isn't ready for tren if you think winny will help joints
hope this is read prior to advice.
https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/anabolic-steroids/building-up-t...
Test reduces collagen synthesis dramatically. Winstrol aids collagen synthesis and builds larger(but more brittle) tendons. EQ with winstrol strengthens the tendons a little. The two together help counteract test collagen depletion. That's how it was explained to me.
RustyhookerNope. Having dried brittle connective tissue is not a good combo.
Post priors, stats and a picture. Gym description and foods help too...add em.
I won't argue about being ready for tren as I have no idea and it has rep as a very harsh compound in terms of sides. But all I got from Anadrol + 750mg test, Arim .25 EOD was a couple of days of pre-Gyno symptoms already gone although the Anadrol has been cleared mostly.
My question is how best to deal with test collagen depletion. I was thinking of TRT level test with Tren Ace to avoid collagen depletion and reap benefits of this compound.
Bro, I've been bodybuilding and competing for years and an elite level and to maintain my mass I'm on a fairly high dose of Test all year long year after year after year. Although I'm not a power lifter - I will use 585 for 10-12 reps in squats for a couple of sets - deads at 675 - bench 455 (my weakest lift) and my connective tissue ain't coming apart from Testosterone. Where are these ideas coming from? I know a bunch of pros that train as heavy as I do and they are not suffering from tendon tears either. (And, they take plenty of Test all year)
https://www.synthetek.com/good-read-about-tendons-by-weight77/
That article has been floating around for forever and no one can really tell how good the info is or not.
As for the the test part of it:
"While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% — more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It’s like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man."
Well, obviously, I'm on GH all year long except a few weeks before a show, so according to that article that is the reason my collagen production is seemingly adequate to protect me from major injuries.
Test all year around? Ouch. I bet they look like a couple of dried raisins. I intend to recover to baseline and rest before next cycle.
Bro, I'm married with kids and we don't plan on having any more. I'm also now sterile from AAS abuse / misuse and on TRT.
You should do exactly as you say, however, you will never recover to baseline after your first cycle if you are like most men. You can get close but you won't hit it.
The good news is that that will happen only once. After your first cycle you will get a new slightly lower baseline that you can recover to again and again. It doesn't keep getting lower with every cycle. LOL
Yeah GH is the one compound that for sure that has good data backing up its positive effects on joints and collagen synthesis. The rest of it I've seen conflicting info on and this article has been debated a whole lot on multiple forums. Seems to be one of the only writeups around on the topic though
I don't post stats. They're largely meaningless for bodybuilding. See Fred Hatfield versus Tom Platz 1991 for what I mean. I couldn't figure out how to attach or upload picture to my posts but if you tell me how I will.
Diet: Caloric surplus
Macros Monday to Friday = 55% fats, 40% protein, 5% carbs
Saturday = intermittent fast
Sunday = carb load up. 45% carbs, 45% protein, 10% fats
Gym = home gym but I have access to leg press and extension machines, hack squat and I have a hyper extension machine and poor man's GHR, pull up bar, Swiss balls, medicine balls, kettlebells etc