+ 13 Fanboys protected crap science by Angus - my critique by Dr B
Hi all
I saw the two recent posts on Angus and his MS tests of gear so I've decided to speak out and say how crap his science was now that he's not protected by his fanboys anymore.
I test all my gear by GCMS for my own benefit and have posted the results of one of them on eroids. I did not get any free gear for doing this.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/jungle-juice-test-e-from-aussiesteroids.comau...
This is a link to the data I posted - simply a screen snapshot from the analyser I used.
http://www.eroids.com/sites/default/files/gearpic/71568/test%20e%20250.jpg
GCMS is still the forensic gold standard - if you get busted it's what LE will use to prosecute you.
There are three pieces of data in my screen snapshot. The top one is the chromatogram. The GC separates the components in the gear as they travel through it. Different steroids take different amounts of time to travel through the GC. This is the first critical identifier.
The test e in my gear came out at 10.65 minutes. The pure reference compound I bought and ran on my analyser came out at 11.94 minutes but that was before I cut a foot off the column and made things come out faster. Trust me and keep reading - I'm a scientist, unlike Angus...
Angus didn't use chromatography to separate the components in the gear (the chromatogram). He just fired them all in at once in a big mess. People who know better, aka "scientists", call this a lumpogram. He relied upon the mass resolution of his LCQTOF to do all the work. But it can't...
Angus relied upon the exact mass of the compound as the single identifier for his tests. Steroids are very similar molecules with subtle differences. Sometimes there is only one or two atoms difference between them. Some of the esters are also only different by only one or two atoms. Read on...
As an example nandrolone is testosterone minus a methyl group. But what if the ester attached to it differs by only a methyl group as well? An extra methyl group. Here are some examples where a nandrolone ester has EXACTLY the same mass as a testosterone ester.
nandrolone caprylate & testosterone enanthate - 400.297745
nandrolone dodecanoate & testosterone undecanoate - 456.360345
nandrolone enanthate & testosterone isocaproate - 386.282095
If Angus had used time in a chromatogram as an identifier this may not have been a problem but he used a fckn LUMPOGRAM!
The two other pieces of data in my screen snapshot are the mass spectra (MS) generated in the MS of the GCMS. The one on the bottom is from the forensic reference compound of pure testosterone enanthate (heptanoate) that I bought. The one in the middle is a spectra from the gear that I ran. There's a lot of little lines corresponding to mass (x-axis) and relative abundance (y-axis). They're both the same so the compounds are a match.
LCQTOF does not generate mass spectra like GCMS. Angus saw only a couple of lines in his spectra, not the multitude in a GCMS spectra. He could have seen a few more because his instrument was capable of inducing collisions (the Q in QTOF) to fragment the steroid but he didn't. He performed the simplest experiment he possibly could. Crap science...
And what about his "purity"? What a load of fckn BS!!! He divided the intensity of the Total Ion Chromatogram (TIC) by the combined intensity of the signals for the exact masses of the steroid. He assumed the relationship was linear for the signals from his piece of sht lumpogram.
I can criticise him more but it starts to get very heavy on the science. He used an ESI probe (Electrospray Ionisation). Steroids ionise very poorly with ESI. You need to use an APCI probe. I could go on...
Fanboys. They fck up source discussions and they completely fcked with the lab tests from Angus. Angus and his fanboys heaped sht on anyone who posted GCMS results but what's LE gonna use?
Cheers
Dr B
PS here is a link to a lot of forensic data about steroid esters that I use for analysis. Most of it comes from the DEA. Thanks for sharing the knowledge DEA! ;-)
http://forendex.southernforensic.org/index.php/category/index/steroid%20...
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Angus isnt a scientist..... but he is an inmate now, and the only testing he'll be a part of is drug testing by his parole officer----when he gets out.
Wait he's going to jail?why?
No idea but he is in big trouble . Wish noone this
GOD GUY, BAD GUY do not wish anyone something like this
AnonI love that line at the end of the movie The Other Guys:
"Hope you like the taste of prison food...and penis."
LOL....I never like to see people go to prison for a victimless crime... but he did things here on eroids were NOT victimless.
That said, I hope he doesnt go to prison..... I'd have been much happier if he would have admitted the whole thing was bullshit and apologized.
AnonWe're on the same page. I've basically lumped him into the Papa Swole category. Take a business that relies on honesty and integrity as the back bone, then exploit that for personal gain. Basically stealing.
well this is great and all but we're not all scientists here so it would've been nice to hear about these kinds of things while he was still doing business here. there was a time when not only damn near every member of this site loved angus but all the sources and mods as well so of course nobody questioned if what he was doing was legit.
You are stretching with that one bud. Angus was a popular guy but to say everyone loved him is simply not true.
AnonRight....... I didn't
Lots people loved him here. When I had arguments with him only MODS here were objective and were reading what I was posting as a argument. Some where sending me email to tell me that they support me but no-one posted on forum that he has doubts. For real only mods where reading everything what I was posting.
Even in real life I see liars that people like them a lot because they are nice persons. Some people have this talent to make LIES sounds better than truth. Most of them are going into politics
lol there sure as hell weren't many opposing points of view when new sources were getting run off this site based on his tests alone. it was only when popular sources started coming up with bad results that people started questioning him.
He told me at some point : xxx source just sent me and paid in advance 75 tests and more 100 on the way. I should understood from this that I should send him 100 samples and testings will start become better and better ? If I would be a source who would have no idea what raws I receive and what is the quality of final product probably that would be the way. But I knew I had good stuff and he was a liar and I fought with him.
It was great that this forum was perfectly objective ( mods and owner ) . If I would start this on a forum that was not objective I would be fucked
i wish i would've known things like how he asked for the samples to be identified before he did the testing like wtf to me that's a huge red flag that the dude knows nothing about what he's doing. im sure some of the sources knew exactly what he was up to but as long as the good test results kept pouring in they were completely happy with the guy.
AnonThat's why I never had him "test" a single sample of mine. Seriously, go back and look at most of those results he supposedly ran. They looked similar to this:
Compound tested: testosterone propionate
Purity level: 99.9999999%
Compound accurately dosed: yes
Hormone present: yes
That's basically how many were laid out. Throw in a few basic scientific terms and some bogus molecular weight numbers and there's your results. I didn't buy into that bullshit. But if more people actually ran blood work and posted legit results from that, this wouldn't even be an issue.
yeah he had me going for a while since all these graphs and shit are not my thing. another reason im just gonna go with pharma products from now on.
AnonI have a nice screen shot saved of a conversation between him and an ex source regarding payment for fake lab tests. Wasn't even going to test the gear, just post results as if he had. I believe he's a true wiz with Microsoft word and copy and paste, that's about it. Glad this shit is finally coming out because many of us have known it for a long time.
You kind of lost me after "Hi All" but it is an interesting post none the less.
You slick bastard! Using the DEAs own tools. Now at one time a SRC (let's just say they may have already posted in here), claimed you could not determine concentration of the solution with GC/MS. The SRC claimed only HPLC could determine the concentration. Obviously in your tests you came up with a concentration. What is your take?
Besides test cypionate there is no method to test steroids as final product for concentration using MS.
Someone is just making a entrance with new theories
When I see someone reinventing the wheel I just smile. There are methods for testing each drug out there approved by international authorities. Why not use that ones and inventing new ones ? Maybe I am paranoid but sounds fishy
Remember: Forensic is looking if a certain substance is present and is not a QUANTITATIVE and QUALITATIVE testing
I understand you pushing for the pinnacle in testing because you feel your gear stands up to that high standard. However, some of us end users have to look at things a little more practically. If there is a way to use any sort of testing that will get us results within say +/- 10% of the actual concentration, we as the end user would be happy. It would not be the perfect situation, but it would give us more options to get our gear tested than we currently have. I don't know if such a test exists, that's why I'm asking these questions.
+/-10 % is quite exact . I think 5% error is GMP and FDA allowed error margin. When such a testing will be invented and would be reliable then specialty literature will publish and all manufacturers of generics will adopt new testing to lower their costs. All manufacturers of generics fight every day to find ways to lowers costs keeping high quality industry demands.
I would love a faster and cheaper testing. I see Chinese sending very different raw from one batch to another and they fuck even for simple products like sidenafil sometimes. At the moment we do not have nothing, I receive a raw and I send to test and wait a week or so till I get results then I produce. Right now I do not have sidenafil in stock but raw is in laboratory from 4 January. Do you think I would not prefer a faster way of testing so I can have products faster back in stock ?
Lol, I know im waiting on a backorder of your viagra. One thing you should consider (just for arguments sake), is you're trying to hold ugl up to pharma grade standards. They are 2 different animals. If we can give the end user more options for testing, I'm all for it.
FYI: I am capable of testing anybody's viagra if they wanted to send me samples
I need to send my gf along with the viagra ?
Ah! The old GR/EG TEST?!
This is an excellent post. Even to the non-scientific, a little help from Google on a few key items and this read through is as straight forward as it can get!
Excellent post!
I uncovered some time ago that Angus is fake. He was so fake that when specialists were looking to his analyses and his documents posted along with his posts ( I was forwarding everything to a professor ) they told me that they guy who is doing this MUST BE A MONKEY WITH ACCESS TO A MS MACHINE. Sure lots of FAN-BOYS attacked me and still do on this issue claiming Angus is GURU
Ajax
From one scientist to another, spot on!