+ 2 PCT. What's the big deal?
I'm 41 and been on Eroids for about 3 years I guess. I've worked out since I was 12 and didn't start using gear until I was 38. Read a lot of different advice on PCT and followed much of it. The veterans on here have really helped me out.
However, from the beginning, I have tweeked my "PCT" a little just with what seems to me as common sense. First of all, I would like to say "to each his own" and I'm not trying to name anyone as exactly right or totally wrong. But I have noticed time and time again that with many cycles that members run, there is little to no "tapering down" at the end of a cycle. To me this seems counterproductive just like someone trying to kick a habit in one day. Of course for those of you that know me, I don't run heavy cycles and I take sometimes 3-5 months between cycles. In fact, my first few were Anavar only. No PCT required but I did taper down the dose over the past two to three weeks. Don't worry, I'm getting to my point.
Anyway, I've always believed that your body responds better to a gradual change instead of a drastic reduction in Test, Deca etc, etc,. I'm only sharing this because I see so many members (mostly younger) really going through it during PCT. Depression, lack of motivation, drastic loss in size, decreased libido among other things. That is something that I have never experienced and don't care to. My last cycle, which ended about 10 weeks ago was about as heavy as I run and it consisted of 350 Deca EW, 350mg's of Eq EW and 350mg's of Test E EW with some Avar, Test Prop, Adex, and Clomid mixed in. It was also my longest cycle to date - 14 weeks in all not counting PCT. But the thing that I do differently than most is about 2 -3 weeks out, I start decreasing my dose of the Deca, Eq, and Test and slowly start increasing Clomid, Adex or Aromasin. I also end my cycle with Test Prop because of it's short half life it makes it easier for me to slowly decrease from 100mg's MWF to 75 to 50 to 25 to 0 without having to "guess when I will be coming off of the long esters. Following this, I go to the Clomid 100/75/50/25, Nolvadex 40/30/20/10. About two days after my last pin of Test P, I usually hit about 1000iu's of HCG EOD for a total of three shots. I know it's probably best to use HCG on cycle instead of, or in addition to, at the end, but to date I've had no real reason.
Another thing I've found to be extremely helpful is the use of Avar as part of, or a prelude to PCT. I like using Avar at the beginning and end of cycles. Many times, I will start reducing the amount I pin 2 -3 weeks out and begin Avar starting with 10mg's a day gradually going up to 60mg's a day about a week after my last pin of long ester oils. Then I slowly decrease from 60mg's a day to 0mg's a day in about 3 -4 weeks. Most of the time I still use my AIs but in smaller doses. I also love using Aromasin at the very end by itself.
Something else that I've found useful is saving all supplements until AFTER my cycle. During my cycle, I try to hit the gym hard, eat plenty and get adequate sleep and usually do drink my protein shakes. But I've found it helpful to save the Creatine, Arginine, Beta Alanine, natural test boosters etc, etc, until my cycle is finished. This seems to give me a little push when my body really needs it, and like gear, in my experience, those supplements don't seem to work as well when taken for months on end. Also, I begin taking Mirtazapine 30mg before bed to cut down on cortisol levels at night and help me sleep better.
I am only writing this because I think it may help some of you fellas deal with PCT a little easier. I really feel bad for the members I see all "down in the dumps" after a cycle because I don't think it has to be this way. Whether you're running a heavy cycle for 20 weeks or a light cycle for 12 weeks, I believe that tapering down dosage about 3 weeks out will keep many of you from experiencing such dramatic drops in well being, libido, strength, etc.
There are many members on here that know MUCH more about using gear than I do. I'll be the first to admit this, however, I see the cycles that many members use and pretty much stop "cold turkey" then go into PCT. So take my advise for what it's worth and maybe it will help with your PCT. I am not trying to discredit or disagree with anyone else on this matter, it's just what has worked well for me. In addition, because I've worked out for so long, it's pretty hard to tell when I'm on cycle or not. My strength, and definition may decrease a little but nothing that anyone seems to notice. I know this may not be the case if I were doing heavier cycles but I still believe this approach will make PCT easier for some of you. KEA
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Hey KEA I sent a friend request hit me up when you get back online I have a few questions for you.
I posted a pretty long post in steroid cycles forum basically asking these EXACT questions. Thanks for the original post KEA. I am 35 and in a similar boat you are, and definitely just want the softest PCT as possible (possibly will be IN SEASON rugby depending on timing). I am going to run Test Cyp, Test Prop and probably avar after reading this. I do not have hcg but may get some. I have clomid, nolva, aromasin, and proviron all on hand. Was thinking HGH during PCT too, with getting back hard into the natural supplements. I, too, am a fan of lower dosages of test. I may run that cyp at ~300mgs for 12-14 weeks, adding in the var and prop at the end. I had originally though prop early in cycle but this makes more sense to me, actually.
Always good to read something from someone's personal experience as opposed to a lot of the cut and paste stuff. That has its uses too I guess if the source is good eg med journal etc.
I'm interested in the test prop at the end of the cycle and before PCT. I'm on my first cycle and not looking forward to losing all my gains in a post cycle crash! How often do you pin test prop and what amount?
It's in the first paragraph Bro. First week 100mg MWF, 75mg MWF, 50mg MWF, 25mg MWF. Then I up my AI's and supplements. I also use Avar in the same manner.
AnonIve never tried to taper but I always figured if my hpta was already suppressed/shut down from the cycle then tapering is only going to keep it that way. Even if I lower the dosing gradually my body is still not going to start recovering with exogenous hormones still circulating because its still way more than I can produce naturally and the body recognizes that.
I understand what you are saying about the gradual reduction in hormone levels perhaps being easier on the person from a psychological standpoint.
But if anyone has any more info that it can aid or quicken recovery I would love to learn a different perspective on it. Thanks for sharing this, food for thought.
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkThanks for the input Jello, but if a guy is taking 1000 mg of Test a week vs. a guy pinning 200 mg (which is about what Docs prescribe for TRT), the natural Test production is basically zero for the dude pinning 1000 mg, however, at 200 mg the Testes don't completely shut down. I also believe in introducing AI's or increase their usage as I'm lowering my gear. All I know is I do it this way and PCT and the weeks following are no big deal to me. I barely change my workout - little lower weight, higher reps, might cut 3 or 4 sets off my total workout. But like I said, "to each his own", this is just what works well for me. But no, it's not just psychological Bro. I don't crash physically after a cycle. Maybe give it a try, you never know
AnonI get what you're saying, im always open to new ideas. Might just give it a shot one day, thanks
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkI liked my prop taper of two weeks following 12 weeks of test enan, but wonder if tapering for 3 weeks 100/50/25 (test prop) would be better. I was depressed my first week of PCT and believe the harsher drop off in test levels was responsible. Had I run the prop 1 more week at 25 I'm betting I would have had a smoother transition. Your post made me think a bit about things. Thanks for posting!
I think three would be better but I would also wait at least 8 or 9 days after your last pin of Test Enan before I started with the prop. I taper down for at least three weeks every cycle. There's probably a lot of guys saying that's not necessary but whatever, at least I don't get the PCT blues. It just works well for me.
K-E-A if you could give me a PM or a email, anything, I would greatly appreciate it. Had some concerns of which I think you could help me out with. Thanks.
thetdog623837good read, I wander if anyone else tapers coming off cycle and what they say about it. Im going to blast hcg 1000iu EOD for ten days after cycle then clomid and nolva after that.