+ 4 After months of research: Proposed first cycle
Ok so after months of research I feel like I am almost ready to start my first cycle. Knowledge wise that is. Physically I still have some work to do to get my BF% where I want. So I thought I would put down on paper what I am considering and get more feedback.
Below is a complete list of the cycle and materials I plan on having on hand and a little BIO history:
HISTORY: Grew up in the 80's working out constantly started around 14, Grew up with the Arnold's Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding as my Bible of knowledge.
PRESENT STATS: 48
Male
5'6"
160
BF%= 16%
Been working out 4 days a week religiously for 15 months, 6 days when adding cardio.
DIET: Nothing but whole foods for the past 2 years, Daily calories about 3200
BMR= 2600 + 500 calorie surplus adds about a pound a week (give or take)
12 WEEK CYCLE: Blood work 1 week prior to start (Baseline #'s)
WEEK 1-12 Test E 500mg/wk (Sun Morn./ Weds Night)
WEEK 3-14 Aromasin 12.5mg/ED (should this be in Morning or Night) ?
(will get blood work at end of week 5 and adjust accordingly if nec.)
WEEK 14-18 PCT: Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Will get post bloods at the end of week 18
Letrozole: (on hand in case needed)
Proviron: ( on hand) not sure about this on yet, still researching ( suggestions welcome)
Mostly for libido if necessary
SUPPLEMENTS: ON Gold standard whey isolate, ON casein, creatine mono(creapure), Glutamine, extend BCAA's, GNC mega men multi's.
SUPLLIES: Needles: Brand Terumo or B-D
Draw: 20g 1" = 50
Pin: 23g 1" = 50
Alcohol and cotton swabs.......
I think that about covers it?????
I welcome any and all feedback, but really looking for feedback from the veterans here! Love having the access to the extensive knowledge base here. Thanks in advance for any suggestions, or changes or additions?
- Bookmark
- 4
- 0
Looks pretty good. IMO I would add in HCG at 500iu per week. This will help yours boys (testicles) keep working throughout the cycle. In turn makes PCT and recovery easier. There is a lot of good info on this. Some guys do and some don't use it. IMO I recommend running an AI. Even you if you show no sings or side effects high E2. It can still cause some serious heatly problems! I would also add NAC into your supplements for liver and kidney support. Just my .02 cents.
Sorry I would go into much more detail but Im at work. Research research research
Looks like your doing your home work good job.
Great first cycle! RUN YOUR AI from day 1!!! Test converts. Most people need an AI. Not most people don't. Some people are hard converters. Your chances are unlikely. If your BF is 16%, your going to convert heavily. If you don't run your Adex, you will have a tuff time getting your estro down when it spikes. Then your going to crash it using Letro. It takes experience to learn about your body's needs. Run ur Adex .25 EOD. Don't change it. After 2 weeks in cycle. Get a female hormone panel to see where your estro is. You can dial in your dose from there.
So I take it you run an Ai every cycle and dont have a clue if you even need it?
Im certainly curious as to what is hard about getting estro under control?
what good is that gonna do if your running a Ai?
why do you propose 2 weeks in on a long estered cycle?
on 500mg/w of test? if this where actually the case, we would have boat loads of people in here trying to get gyno cleared up, theres like 80,000 organic views to this site a day. we average 50 to 60 new registrations a day, in the 3 years ive been a MOD thats 54,750, with the vast majority of them ordering gear and leaving. less then 1% of those people have showed up here for advice on estro problems, im fairly confident that dudes growing tits would be here quick like to get advice. Thats just common sense. and lets face it, very few of these people know how to run cycles, Ai's, or even know about PCT. atleast based on the kind of cycle proposals we get here.
I will agree that high BF% has been known to covert to estro easier, but saying that he will surely convert because he's 16% is bullshit. im 16% and have been for a while, I have very little conversion. powerlifters are up to 25+ and some of them dont convert.
you clearly dont have much experience in getting estro under control when it spikes if you end up crashing it.
First he's new to AAS. Your giving him bad advice.
Why would I run an AI and have no clue if I need it??? That's ignorant of you to say. I have ran more cycles than you will ever run.
He will have ZERO clue about how much Adex to take to tame that estro. In fact, he won't know what to do. When estro spikes into the 200's he won't get it down easily with Adex. Then when he cries on here why he feels terrible, everybody will tell him to take more Adex. He will try different doses for weeks and still not know what dose he needs.
A hormone panel will tell him where his estro is. That's how to dial in an AI dosage. But you wouldn't know that. Because you don't convert. Right? It's not about growing tits. It's about all the other side effects that he will get and not know why. No libido, achy joints, lethargy, etc.... The list goes on.
Just because it's a long ester doesn't mean it doesn't start converting right away. Yeah, it takes time to build up strength. Meanwhile converting to estrogen. You obviously have never ran blood panels enough to know what goes on when you cycle.
So you advise him to just run a cycle and hope for the best???
This is about him. Do you really think he will know how to use Letro?? No. He will read crap all over the forums and apply bro science to try and handle that estro with Letro because Adex won't work fast enough. He won't even know what dose is working.
My advice to him was to teach him how to use his AI and learn his body.
Your advice was for him to just run a cycle of exogenous hormones having no idea how to handle and maintain estro conversion. Just pop some Adex when he gets sensitive nipples. That's brilliant!! How about giving good advice to people and teaching them the proper way to cycle.
You clearly don't have enough experience. You sound like you have just been trolling all the boards and applying your best guess.
You got me! what can I say? was it the 50 karma points that gave me away!
well considering he is already here asking questions logic would say he might just ask someone?
thats the kind of thing that trolls say, you dont know me, but i think I got about 7000 posts on the site so its not hard to read up.
As far as the debate, i understand where your coming from, up till about a year ago its what i used to tell people, but then i realized very few people where having estro problems, compiled with my own experience with estro and how easy it is to get under control. I changed my advice, and well as of to date no-one has came back and said WTF noid you fucked up my cycle.
But for the sake of safety I would say your advice is the best practice.
I'm new to this board, but not new to AAS.
I'll try to limit my opinions, but not my experienced advice.
I prefer experience reads over book reads. Most guys that have more then 20 cycles dont spend much time in here, which is to bad. I guess the fact is they dont need help, they know what to do and when to do it, they dont even post in the advanced steroid section. There is a few of us here and there though.
What injection sites do you plan to use?
If you intend to pin your gluts you'll want 1.5" pins
Yea I got my pins and alcohol swabs delivered today. Went with 20G 1.5" for Draw, and 23G 1" and 1.5" 25 each. I will use 1" for thighs and 1.5" for Glutes
would you believe that I have almost always used 1" pins for glutes? even when i was pinning 6ml in one shot, never ever had any problems.
seems too short to me... could be I just have a fat ass.
Thats what she said! LMAO
do not use an Ai unless needed, I know it says all over the place to use it! Most people dont need an Ai, keep it on hand and use if necessary.
Running an estrogen blocker on cycle when you dont need it can and most likely will hinder some of your gains, it can also crash your estro enough to make you feel like shit. Learn your body and how it reacts to a compound that creates estrogen(test).
Pay attention to your nipples, they will become sensitive, sore, gets bumps underneath them. dont freak out its not that big of a deal but thats when you start your Ai. Or if you get balloon face, meaning it fills with water. Or if you retain to much water and cant do things like put on your shoes, reach around to wipe your ass, sweat profusely to the point you want to stop it some, then you use an Ai.....Or get blood tests
Yea OK, I will wait until I get some sort of symptom. Thanks for the input
This is well thought out for your 1st run and good job on putting in the leg work for it. Everyone down below laid out a few critiques that are very good +1 and good luck
Very well planned out..dont see to many good cycle proposals lately on here..great setup but try to get to 14-15% bf first and i love provirion but wait to see how ur.body reacts to test and the a.i's first..maybe use ur second cycle..+1 brother
Yea absolutely, I would like to get my BF% down to at least 14%, I know the lower the better. I am adding extra cardio, and restricting my carbs a little on my diet or the next couple months. Should be ready to go on Jan 1st. I don't drink so guess I will ring in the New year with a shot of Test E...:)
Hell ya bro..bring in the new year with a bang lol
I can tell you've done your research. My recommendation would be to not run the provirion. Test only would be the best. And study the signs of high/low estro and use the ai only if needed. You might not need it some people are lucky in that aspect. +1 for doing some studying
This is so refreshing to see a cycle put together with such care and thought. Baws, Monks, and ig247 all make very good points and I agree with everyone of them. Only thing I have to add is go for BD pins and maybe get some 1.5" 23g as the 1" might be just a bit short. Also at your age pre cycle bloods might tell why lowering that bf% might be taking longer than you'd like. If your test numbers are low to begin with this cycle should really help to lower that bf%. Good luck and +1 from me.
Thanks, yes I have done a whole lot of research and still am. I am a detail oriented person comes from my military days.
I always used 1.5s myself until I went to the doc the other day and had to get a cortisone shot in my ass and they used a 1 inch for like 2mls and I asked and they said it was fine. So since then I've been using a 1 inch with no problems. Guess it depends also on how lean you are.
maybe wait for post cycle bloods 2-3 weeks after pct so the lh/fsh/e2 numbers are not effected by the serms in your system
Had someone today suggest waiting 6 weeks after pct to get post blood work? Would that be to long of a wait or is that reasonable?
I suggest getting bloods 2-3 weeks post PCT to check recovery once the SERMS are out of your system. If you wait 6 weeks you could have been shut down for an extra few weeks when you could have hit a few shots of hcg and then started clomid again and began the road to recovery sooner than 6 weeks
Yea think I will wait until 2 weeks after PCT completion.
I noticed you have proviron on hand. As far as a first time oral addition, Proviron is the perfect choice. Not only will it increase free test but the boost to libido and General well being makes it my favourite bar none.
Having said that, saving it for your next run would be the wisest choice. With test alone you'll have the best opportunity to see how your body reacts to it and most importantly figuring how to dial in your chosen Ai. You'll also find out how you recover, the pct you have layed out is a great base and is sufficient for most but that's not to say is for everyone, hence the importance of blood work. Good luck, stay safe and enjoy.
Good suggestion, I will wait and use it for next cycle. Thx
Looks pretty good to me but I think that aromasin dose might be to high. I would start at 6.25 ed and adjust if necessary. Wait till the beginning of week 3 to start it sooner if nessary but you don't want to crash your estrogen. Then get bloods around week 6 and adjust if necessary.
Hey Iron I am about a month from starting my first cycle. still doing some research. And ordering all my PCT and AI first. Was wondering, I am taking your advice and will dose 6.5 mg/ED of Aromasin as soon as I see symptoms. My question is once I see symptoms and take my first dose of Aromasin, how long before I can expect that ED dose to start to counteract the symptoms. How long do I give it to take effect before upping the dose to 12.5 mg/ED? I realize this varies for each individual, but I mean in general...how long?
Yea I like the idea of doing less anytime I can. And bloods at week 6 was my plan. Thanks for the input sounds good.