+ 3 AAS altered my body chemistry?
So I could be way off on this but I'm sure something has changed drastically. I don't know much about the science behind it and honestly haven't had the time to do much research on the topic but I wanted to post it so you guys can kick it around and drop some jewels on me. Some of you are very well versed in the science behind what we do and others like myself just have a shit ton of experience first hand. So it's like this,....when I started in this world I was a 160lb middleweight boxer. You all (most of you) know my story and you know what kinds of cycles I ran for the better part of my AAS career. Short ester blasts, lots of orals that are considered cutters, even amphetamines and diuretics. More recently (3 years or so) I've been half assed bodybuilding. I don't really push myself honestly and don't know what I want to do half the time. I set a goal and half way through I don't get the results I expect so I abandon ship and go back to what's familiar. So basically I'm finishing out cycles early. Like 4-6 weeks early and capping with test prop/Tren a runs. But the point of my post is I started out a middleweight. That's 160lbs at weigh in and I walked around in between at about 175lbs and 8-10% bf. Well since i started running more traditional bodybuilder cycles, I noticed that my body is completely different than it was before. Hear me out. Yes I know that's the point and I sound like a dumb ass. But what I mean is the last couple times I started a cycle , I didn't finish it and didn't pct. And no I'm not a Trt guy. So pretty much cold turkey no pct (I AM NOT CONDONING THIS AT ALL! I JUST GET LAZY AND FORGET. I have head trauma that still haunts me. Give me a break). The fucked up thing is during these off periods which have been extensive lengths of time (4-6 months off) I'm not losing any weight, not crashing, not showing signs of elevated estro. The one lab report I got during one of these off periods my test level showed at 800+ Total and 250 free or in that neighborhood. That was months later. Estradiol is in range and was at that point. I always heard that our bodies naturally change every 7 years or so. It's why ectomorphs start packing on fat in their thirties with no explanation. Or why some women drop bf suddenly and don't eat clean but look like supermodels. Again, this is all stuff I've heard. I have done minimal research. My question ,..is it possible or safe to assume that my decade or so of AAS use has changed my body chemistry to the point where It has adapted to lean times of dips in test level and learned to adapt and compensate? Have I become more resistant and grown more tolerant of lower test levels? Is it that I'm just getting older and I'm keeping weight easier? Usually I'll lose half my gains even if I do everything text book. I'll shed water and lose mass but grow a little each time. Now it's like I could sit on my ass for a year, way what I want (I do that now anyway) and still have this physique? Have I become a mesomorph? Is That possible? Ohh I alsos notice that I do hold body fat more easily than I did 2 years ago. It's not much but it's more than I ever held on to. I couldn't gain fat to save my life a few years ago. Now it's like I have a piece of cake and I see the fat layer form over my abs. Anyway, I'll shut up and leave it to you guys.
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AnonNice post....
The body is a wonderful amazing thing. It adapts and overcomes... I feel like based on what you wrote you forced your body to adapt. You ran some short blast and jumped off your body most likely crashed and your HPTA kicked on bringing your natural hormones back up only for you to do it again... Then that cycle repeated itself. Based on evolution and the human body we evolve and our bodies will change to help is survive. You out yourself through repeated cy les of this and perhaps you taught your body to quickly overcome that crash through excess natural production. Just like trying to lose weight those that starve themselves to lose weight and then started eating again overtime they continue that battle because the body adapts. Most people that do it do the same thing a repeated cycle of starvation mode and eating. Each time once you begin the normal/over eating (for some) the body quickly starts storing that food as fat for energy because they have trained their body. Their body knows there will be a starvation point. So the yo-yo diet forces the body to hold more far during eating times to survive. So in your example you have a little Darwinism working in your favor only the strong will survive. Your body knows now that it will go through a trough period of hormone production so to compensate it pumps out hormones like its job during your off period preparing for that crash period. So in a sense you may have increased your abalone test production because over 800 off cycle is freaking awesome. Got to love GE human body. I feel if you take care of yourself and the years of gym work on your body it's found a way to change your physique to hold its weight so it has adapted so it can support your lifestyle. The extra fat could be your body changing in the way it stores energy for your crash periods. When u go off cortisone levels rise and instead of your body losing muscle do you notice whether you lean out a little bit during recovery? Or could be simple change in your body metabolism with age. The amount of thyroid production and insulin release from the pancreas...
It's simple human biology and adaptation. Some people are lucky ones and can adapt like yourself threw training it so to speak. If you think about adaptation in other species and even bacteria and viruses. We are similar in a way. Some bacteria and viruses exist now because of human treatments (antibiotics/antivirals) so an antibiotic that once worked no longer does now and we have to use something different or increased doses. The human body is now different but similar things occur.
AnonHere's a link I found after opiated that I found interesting along the lines of human adaptability.
I think you have successfully forced your body to adapt three your patterns of use and the final outcome is in your favor. Like Darwin said "only the strong survive" and you my friend have the survival gene!
http://anthro.palomar.edu/adapt/adapt_1.htm
So is it at all possible that the theory of our double helix DNA being 10 helix short if it's original make up and slowly making it's way back to 12 helix? Is this the physical end of that spectrum? Is there any chance I'm an example of evolution excelling in the physical aspect. I know other ppl experience things like I am and some say there are handfuls of ppl around the world evolving to a higher state of consciousness. Science has a lot of theories on this and most accept the fact that we are ever evolving. The reading I've done on this topic mostly highlights the development of our mind and increased cognitive function or simply using more of our brains. If that's even a little bit true then it could be a reason for something like this. The brain controls these hormonal changes right? Maybe I'm one of the first superhumans and a sign of things to come ? ;-D
I convinced that some of these disorders like ADHD are really gifts and new steps in evolving to that point and since we can't understand it we pump them with meds to suppress it. Ever seen someone with ADHD focus on something they enjoy? They are like savants. Geniuses. Well there has to be a physical side right? Maybe I'm it.
Ok I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I'm not going to tell you that the pleadians are tinkering with our DNA which they claim to have designed but I don't dismiss anything and all I know for sure is I feel pretty damn good when I come off cycle and 6 weeks later realize I forgot to take any clomid or nolva a month prior and never even cracked that hcg open. Something has changed in my body. I'm diggin it. Explanation or not it's a plus!
It sounds like your body has just reached a new "set point" with your weight, finally. You are not carrying a supraphysiological amount of mass so far above your natural potential that it needs to be maintained with regular stiff doses of chemicals.
This sounds like the most reasonable, rational , simple explanation. I like it. Anything interesting you can direct me to in way of reaserching I reading about this?
Well, here is the full blown study. Just note that there is a button on the top of the right hand navigation to get the full text. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9278574) A little too much dribble on obesity but a good place to get a flavor of the idea.
TronAAS is a hell of a drug...
A powerful hormone produced by powerful beings who don't yet understand their full potential.
RustyhookerBody changes in a complete sense do happen. Metabolism changes. Older mature muscle builds etc. Example....back in the day i started out at 100lb kid with big strong legs and looked like internment camp rest of body. Ate everything and still couldn't gain no matter what. I finally got big enough to compete bantamweights 142lbs(13-20yrs old to get there). Parillo/poloquin and 8000cals every day got me sponsored at 160 @ 4% in just 6Weeks. But thst was it. 160 cut or 165 with a lil padding. I'd eat anything and get hard cut just dropping soda. 28 hit first cycle. 6yrs and couldn't gain so hit cycle. Then staying 185 without gear was easy. I decided to see what i can do. Hit a HUGE cycle of sus at 450/week and hit 205 & 10%. Finally made it! Broke elbows 2 yrs ago and metabolism changed. Keeping lean from a once hardgainer is now mandatory cardio. Mass is been easy since cycling but now i gotta cardio or look like midget nacho libre. And even though i get a few compliments, it's been literally 30yrs to gain 100lbs mass.
So after that boring tale, yes your metabolism will change. Mass ability will change as metab slows. And you too will find yourself on ropes or treadmill someday.
I agree but doesn't our body see muscle as a liability? It expends too much energy and costs too much to maintain so it wants it gone? Fat on the other hand is a fuel source and can be easily stores without expending energy. So why would our body want to keep muscle even with an altered metabolism
RustyhookerIf you're in the gym forcing your nody to change with heavy lifts, switches, drops....all the Trix to acquire mass then your body will change the "push". It's that hard work forcing growth.
Think about muscle memory. If you dropped from the gym and went down to a lazy 170. Then jumped into the gym with a vengence, what happens? Your human animal knows it better adapt/overcome or realuze the constant pain. We've all done those muscle memory rebounds. The body will adapt at any cost. Fat storage wont be an issue if your gym is hardcore. Its more calories forced to burn.
I get parillo and poloquin backwards. I used to live by their posted reports. But the idea was warming joints, hard heavy lifts, pump up for fascia stretch, stretch muscles AFTER workout to refeed with new blood and mega calories primarily from carbs. Like 8000 calories. It turns your body fully into a furnace! When your constantly going beyond the bodies limits and fuelling it like that, excess is burnt. Many complain the burnt excess is wasted food. But if that alleged wasted food puts on 15+ lbs without gear AND your fat drops points then whats to complain about? Think about compounfs we take to boost appetite, the gains and theories. If your machine is 100% hard driven and calories well above the norm there's no need for fat storage. The body typically stores fat during periods of low calories. Yo yo diets.
I probably strayed a bit but it's a huge topic you brought in.
Fact....stress as a constant in your life will ALTER your DNA. That altered DNA can be passed to offspring. Stress also proven to raise cancer risks. So, in theory there's no reason that you cannot alter to have more mass if the output is maintained.
Only thing I can think is that you reset your hypothalamus! The hypothalamus is also related to thyroid function, which controls metabolism and is linked to effectiveness of weight loss efforts. The hypothalamus is an area of the brain that produces hormones involved in regulating hunger and thirst, among other sensations. You reset this with Aas/hcg. But I'm no doctor, so don't quote me on this.
I don't know but it's very interesting. I think our bodies have an amazing ability to learn and adapt. I often become immune to medications quickly, it annoys my doctors. Since steroids are good for you, perhaps your body has learned how they work and how to deal without them. (that makes sense in my head)
I stay consistently around 209-214 for the past year. it's age my friend; age. The older we get; the more the metabolism slows down. If I do a cheat day I swear I gain 3 pounds and then it takes me 2-3 days of watching what I eat to lose it. Then the cycle continues. If I do a light week of weights I rise to 214 while keeping my diet in check. If I do the opposite and pound the weights and still keep my diet in check I'll drop to 209 and stay there the next week following the same protocol. You need to find your happy medium and if you aren't writing the shit down then try and take a mental note of it.The only thing that will alter your dna is Myostatin; the rest is how you go about your day.
So my DNA isn't altered but how about the earlier comments about resetting the hypothalamus & thyroid? Anything like this even possible? And as far as weight, I only get on the scale and make note of weight when my bf increases or if I see a sudden drastic change. ATM I'm hovering around 210lbs consistently. It's been a good month. It's a 15-20lb spike in weight. Is estimate 1/4-1/3 of it is excess water weight or bf. The lean mass spike was one of those things where I was getting out of the shower and looked in the mirror like "hhmm, I look fucking huge all of the sudden" so I started investigating. Other than that i don't keep tight track simply because it's not important to me. I'm not a comparative bodybuilder and don't really gauge anything unless it's a new venture with AAS doses, compound stack , increment or anything else that I haven't done before. Thanks for the input
I don't have science to back this up but based on everything I know of you from these forums....you are simply a genetic freak and I envy you. lol
I've been hearing that for a long time and I don't know if I can dispute that only because most people I talk to and encounter can't believe I keep such a low bf eating the way I do. If it's the case I'll start bottling and selling my DNA ;-P
Any takers ?
I second that, lol. Having actually done pct a couple times and getting ready soon for another I can say I only wish my body reacted so kindly.
Bro don't think negatively about it. Keep a positive attitude and keep going hard through pct. I'm a firm believer in mind over matter. Don't mind fucj yourself
Right on. There is no other choice as far as I am concerned. PCT is not what I would call pleasant but I wear each one completed as a badge of honor. Cycling is the easy part..
you are turning into a woman ....
really though, when I started cycling I was on hormone replacement therapy ... I was literally shut down in every way. I was taking very high doses of thryroid, estrogen and progesterone just to get my blood levels up to normal for my age. After about a year of cycling I noticed that I was having sides that would indicate that my estrogen levels were way high... (remember now that without hrt my levels were testing at zero) so I started altering my dosages on my meds and eventually stopped taking everything except the thyroid which was still low even after cycling .. ( i ve been reading up on some interesting information here on how 19 nors affect t levels and thus prolacting but that is another thread) .. even when I am off cycle now my hormone levels balance out fairly quickly and I still don't need the replacement therapy. So, just based on that anecdotal evidence I d say in my case running cycles has altered my body chemistry.
I think you're spot on. I'm clearly no expert but it's looking this way for me. I was afraid I ruined myself a year snd a half ago with that first big Tren/test/EQ cycle I ran. It was long and thought for sure I wouldn't recover. Tests came back in the high 800's total test off cycle. Weird
Don't be so sure bro. Take a look at the graph I put in this thread.
(http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/pct-all-wrong)
Depending on how big that cycle was it can take forever for your exogenous test to come down. Folk go 2-3 weeks after their last pin to get blood drawn and their blood is still filled with the cycle test that hasn't decayed out yet.
If you just had the tests done like a year later, then they are certainly accurate.
AnonMan, that's a good question that I think most of us don't know the answer to...no exactly. What I do know is that AAS do affect us at the genetic level. It is commonly referred to as gene expression, but like any other powerful hormone (not simply a drug), there is alterations to DNA.
Now, that being said, I am no scientist. But being that i started years back and at roughly the same size as you I can say that there are definitely things that I cannot change back. I did crush my levels and I am a trt guy, so not exactly the same. The difficult part is how to attribute what changes to what. For instance, you are a highly conditioned athlete (I imagine) as a boxer, and couple with your natural genetics you may have had much better odds than many of rebounding with little or no PCT. I agree with you that it is not advisable, but given all of the training you're body may have pushed through it better than others. Wish I could offer more, but glad that you have maintained some natty levels like that!
I also considered this point and it's in my notes for study. The fact that from age 10 I've been pushing my body to it's limits and once I hate those genetic barriers I kicked those walls down with AAS at the early age of 22. Good point and a strong possibility that it's nurture and not nature.
Keep in mind that although I spent most of my life boxing or training to box, I have not competed in over 3 years and even tho I still train periodically I do not condition myself to be in that kind of shape anymore. I am at a point where if the average untrained man steps in front of me regardless of his size I'm going to embarrass him in the ring. But put another trained fighter in front of me who is competition ready, I will get smashed. So I'm not conditioned to fight anymore. But again, maybe I'm just rewired that way now
Hmm, weird. Have you used gh or igf-1? If so I would think the addition of all these new muscle cells you created allow you to hold into more muscle. But it's weird that you're not dropping any weight. I mean I knkw guys who just have in believable genetics for retaining muscle, but still it seems like that wasn't you in the past. Only thing I can think if is you have created new homeostasis. It's like the 130lb guy who uses gear and purs on 30lbs in a 3 month cycle. Then he comes off and his body gets rid of all the muscle faster then he gained it because it's not used to carrying muscle and wants to return to normal. Maybe your body's just so used to holding size that it no longer goes after it on e your off hormones. It's just normal now.
I've used GHRP -2, GHRP -6, CJC -1295 but never straight IGF-1. I don't know if I'm completely accurate but I believe that CJC and GHRP combined produce more IGF-1 than even HGH or supplementing IGF. Is that accurate?
I've read that PEPs will release a higher GH spike then HGH, up to 7x higher, but HGH lasts 3-4 times longer in your system then PEPs. Vike got me onto PEPs and I wish there was more talk about them. I think a lot of people think why not just get on HGH, but I feel PEPs can be a very effective tool. I just started using them.
There definitely an interesting family of drugs and it's cool that you can use them during pct and and during time off. And it's way cheaper to run ghrp-6 for a few months then it is to run gh. I've been reading about them a lot lately and just the appetite increase of ghrp makes me wanna include them in my next bulking cycle and pct. I would love to be able to eat 6-7k in clean calories.