Your input on my upcoming first cycle
Hey bros, i'm ready to take the plunge into the world of anabolic steroids and i'd like your help and guidance for input on anything you have to share basically for my upcoming first cycle. I'll be attaching my blood work once i get home later on today. My first cycle is a basic-
Test E- Week 1-12 @500mg pinning on Monday and Thursday 250mg spread.
OCT- Aromasin starting @week 3, 12.5mg EOD (continued until the end of week 18)
PCT- Nolva 20mg ED, Clomid 100mg ED (starting on week 15)
On week 17 i'll drop the Nolva to 10mg ED and the clomid to 50mg ED until the end of week 18
Diet consisting of at LEAST 2g of protein per lb
Will be moderately clean, 3250-3750 Calories
Age- 23 (some of you may think i'm too young but you'll see later on my baseline test is slightly below average and i know i have the maturity to control my actions and have accepted the risks)
Height- 5'8"
Weight- 167
BF%- 10-13 (will being doing a caliper test later on today also)
Have been working out for 5 years.
Question i have are-
1) I'm predisposed to MPB and would like to know what you guys think would be the sufficient time to start Fin prior to a cycle. (I've heard anywhere from 1-3 weeks but i'd like to know your thoughts on this)
2)How many times per day should i train for maximum gains during my anabolic cycle.
3)This may actually sounds pretty dumb but here it goes lol is there any benefit at all in adding creatine to a cycle? Don't see how some extra muscle saturation could ever be a bad thing.
Please add any useful information that will help my first cycle be safer and more successful in having great sustainable gains.
All and any criticism and information welcome.
-----Thanks again for the help and support from everyone here on eroids.
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eryximachusI would recommend using a lower dose of test. The 500mg per week is "bro science". There is no reason to use that much test, and in some ways it's due to the transitional period between making AAS controlled in the early 1990s, the rise of underground labs with poor quality control, and the internet. The internet allowed bro science to flourish unchecked, and low quality underground labs caused people to increase doses. This is still a major problem. These people taking 100mg a day of orals, a gram of tren a week, are using bunk or severely underdosed gear.
In the 1980s, a typical cycle of pharma product would be 250mg of test per week. Maybe 200mg of deca And maybe 10mg a day of some orals.
You will get fantastic gains with 250mg of quality test per week. You'll save yourself a lot of cash, avoid a lot of side effects, and get into the habit of "less is more".
Order some high quality test that costs at least $100 a bottle. PM me for recommendations of what to buy and where.
The OTHER option, which I think you should consider, is to use Clomid. Ignore all the bro science about this drug, google Androxal- a single isomer variant of Clomid.
25mg a day should bring your test levels to an above average range in a few weeks, and you'll get minimal side effects. Clomid tricks your brain into releasing more LH, which is what triggers test production. Testes sensitivity to LH declines with age - hence LH levels INCREASE with age in order to maintain normal test levels. What this means is that, at 23, 25mg of Clomid will be much more potent than with someone in their 30s or 40s.
the "estrogenic" side effects are largely overblown in my opinion. Way too many gearheads don't want to admit that coming off of gear is extremely unpleasant, and rather than blame their depression and emotional lability on androgen insufficiency, they blame the drugs that are there to help them.
Lastly, the reality is while much of the age obsession on this site is not backed by science, what IS true is that if you're not a pro, you're not going to want to do gear for 20 plus years. You're a small dude, and this may not be the life for you. You can safely use Clomid for a year, train naturally, and see how you like it with good, natural test levels.
too young for steroid/ chemical advice, this is his doctors job.
Yes, and there are so many other fora on the net where he can get a beginner's cycle; I don't understand why he is craving an endorsement from us in particular . . . In fact, he can learn all he needs to know right here as well - why the need for a blessing from the forum? But, it is most certainly his doctor's job. +1
Sorry it took me longer than anticipated to upload my blood panel for you guys. Give it a look over if you have the time and let me know what you all think.
Put up a pic of yourself to go with them bloods. Bloods can be manipulated with use of hormones. With a picture it will help us to decide whether that is the case.
Bro, I would need to defer to the website leadership on a question like this. Our position is to tell someone your age to train natty, but let's say you are suffering from low T and you're not gonna make any gains natty. My personal thought on a situation like this is that it is a medical issue and you need to be working with a MD that is willing to help you achieve a healthy T level for your age. You will need to find a doctor who is sympathetic to your athletic ambitions and realizes that a T-level at the extreme bottom of the range ain't gonna cut it. I don't think we are in a position to slice and dice our standard position so finely. The site MODS read everything on this board and they will most likely weigh in on this post and your dilemma.
Thanks truly for your advice and help in my situation, i'm really hoping the site MODS can give my blood work a quick "onesie" and input their advice also.
lol. creatine on cycle. these type of questions worry me. you have low t? why? naturally or from cycling? sounds to me a bit like trying to find a loophole, kind of like when someone adds the word competition or adds in "pro", either way your to young and it goes against our goal on this forum of safely and affectiveley using steroids, so the only advice i give you is to consult with your doctor. good luck.
23 too young for any gear advice boys! Learn how to eat kid, hold off on juice, you have plenty of room to grow natural first! Just my opinion.
Thanks for your input tzelukie, i know by now that any criticism is good criticism and you guys are just looking out for us younger guys best interest & i'm sure we all appreciate or if not all SHOULD appreciate it. But i am inclined to think i can handle this leap in my life and I've excepted the consequences of this chosen path. Would you though be inclined to change your mind upon seeing my baseline test results when i post it in about roughly 2 hours? Or are you firm with your opinion that i'm still too young even with a low average testosterone level?
If your baseline is that low then your doc/endo will work toward a solution, I'd be willing to bet the endo would try you on clomid or hcg before putting you on trt which at your young age is the right thing to do. Trust me you don't want to pin weekly for the next 60 years. Think about it!
Good luck man! Awesome to see you are using fitnesspal. I gained 30 pounds, first cycle then lost about 10 which was straight bloat.
Make sure you keep or slightly up your calories during pct
Very very helpful advice! Will be adding that to my cycle notes. Thanks bud.
Hey man, couple questions for you.
1. Can you stick with the diet?
-----it's a lot harder than you think. I'd like to see if you could do that diet which isn't that much in calories, natty first, just for 3 months, are you going to be tracking your macros or just guessing on serving sizes?
2. How do you train as of right now? How many times a week do you train each body part?
- you might want to research this topic a bit more, if you are training the body parts hard enough you only need to train them once a day, and at most twice a week.
3. Do you train legs? Legs, squats and deadlifrs will put mass mass and more mass on you!
4 creatine, I'm sure that's just preference but I wait till a week before my cycle is over than I jump on it.
All In all man, I see you did your research on the cycle part which is awesome. An that's what I ended up doing my first cycle. But I feel you still need to do just a little more research before you start. And try the diet out. Without the diet you will throw your money out the window.
Hey man thanks for the info and advice. I've actually tried out vikings mass shake for 3 days to test my calorie intake, which i must add actually tastes pretty dam good lol. Keeping up to the task of the calorie intake i'm pretty confident i shouldn't have any trouble with it as i'm no stranger to food (it's my Achilles heel). I do also track my calories, i'll be honest to say when i do eat out i also try to encompass probable calorie and serving sizes for what i eat to track with my fitness pal. I currently train 6 days a week and currently on the "Jim Stoppani's Six-Week Shortcut To Shred" (cutting prior to an intended nice anabolic bulk). I always hit my compound movements first including the squats and dead lifts (on those days). I don't see any harm in trying out my planned diet for a few months. Appreciate the advice!
Brother, youre a bit young for us to be comfortable dishing advice on anabolics. You should know that if youve been here for over a year. Looking at your pics, it looks like you need to get training and diet on point and use the natty test of a young man to grow a bit before jumping on aas.
Thanks for your input wolverine! Really appreciate the advice but that picture is veryyyy old lol i'd say about 2010, if you guys like i can add some recent pictures also. I'll be adding my baseline test results from my blood work and you'll be able to see how low my tst levels are compared to what they should be for my age But once again thank you for looking out for us younger guys..
+1 for a great attitude. I was afraid I would offend you and really dont wanna do that. Yes definitely post updated pics when asking for input. Im one of many who will look at all we can before giving advice.
I had to give a +1 for your great attitude as well, your definitely displaying a higher level of maturity than many others your age that have posted for advice and not liked the responses.
I'm not condoning use of aas by someone your age but if you went and got bloods that came back showing your levels are low it does put a bit of a different twist on things. My question with regards to this is are you natty low or is it self inflicted? As in through PH, designers, etc, guess either way, low is low
I've just updated my profile with my bloods if you are interested. Thanks for your advice and input keepitreal! And natty low, I've never done anything that would result in lowering of my testosterone.
Updated to a more recent picture with some anterior deltoid and shoulder action going on. Will have newer ones once off of work in a few hours.
Age , how long u been working out,
Info i should have included, thank you for bringing it to my attention.
23 on his profile.