dosage advice prior to labs
Hi all,
Everyone has given me great advice in the past so I am picking your wise brains again!
I am on prescribed TRT 100mg weekly. So let me first admit I have done a little cheating. I have been injecting faithfully 150 -200 mg a week instead of the 100 as well as taking 25mg a day of Proviron. Also let me say I feel sooo much better since my natty level was 196.
I have been on for 10 weeks now and my MD wants me to have my levels drawn on March 19th for a follow up. So of course you can guess what my question is going to be:
I would like to get my dosage raised by my doctor from 100 to 150 weekly, but If my labs were drawn today I am sure my levels would be higher then they would be if i stuck with the 100 mg a week that was prescribed. So i think I will have my own labs drawn next week to see where I stand. however, will my levels drop significantly if I stop for 17 days or so prior to the labs my MD wants?
Any thoughts on the best way for me to move forward? Is there some sort of "generic" graph that shows the decline of testosterone over weeks? Meaning if my level is around 1000 ng/ml will 2-3 weeks without an injection bring me down to where I would need to be to get a dosage raise?
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What ester would this be at 2 week dosing, undecanoate?
If you are feeling better on your higher dose, tell your doc about it. Maybe you actually do need more than he is prescribing you. You do know that cruising on to high of a dose is bad for your long-term health also. You don't want to maintain abnormally high testosterone levels, just like you don't want abnormally low levels, so make sure your new dose is not going to have long-term health impacts if you are trying to cruise with it.
hey makwa, can you tell me what the long term effects are and how long term? Ive been blasting (mainly...lol) and cruising for about 2 years at 300-600 mg of test enthanate a week. Am 62 and feel better than I ever felt, however I am noticing I actually get "'roid rage" the day after an injection and with a torn rotator cuff getting it out in the gym is harder and harder. Went to see daughter past weekend out of town and wife pissed me off so badly I basically ruined the whole trip. In retrospect, I am embarrassed and see I WAY overreacted.
Have noticed the past 12 months or so, I do get a bit "colder" and argumentative a day after injection (even thought it is enthanate, I DO feel the libido and the "edge" the day after I inject. Getting really SICK of injecting. Do it all day at work for patients, and getting real sick of putting needles in my ass. How you guys pin the thighs is beyond me....hurts like hell for days.
Is this normal? I imagine my test levels have been (when tested) over 1200 most of the time.
Also supplement with Proviron 25 mg day, protein, multiple vitamins and fish oil.
The "train of old age" is coming for me too, but I gotta tell you with the wife getting "pelleted"' every three months, my use of test is a great help in having FUCKING GREAT sex with her at least daily.
She is 57 and never been hotter....shit we have been married 33 years and she and I testify sex has NEVER been this fantastic!!! It is always an "event" that lasts hours....the pelleting made a huge diff in her libido....she usually out lasts me now and I have to "'tap"' out....ha
So you see our life is wonderful, but the "rage" is not me, wife married me she says cause I was gorgeous and laid back....lololollllllll....yea right.
Any observations, man and thank you in advance for your expertise and I can see by your level you ARE an expert. Thanks.
This is not good advice. Telling your doctor that you are using a higher dose is a bad idea and a great way to get kicked off TRT. Doctors will not take on that kind of liability unless they are family or friends.
Agree. Trt is still a highly regulated thing. They only allow docs to write scripts for so much. So, upping a script has to be justifiable.
I guess a better way to go about it would be to tell the doc you still don't feel normal at your current dose and ask about increasing it to see if it makes a difference.
They won't go by how you feel. They will go by the Numbers. If the doctor decides that 600 is a good enough number for you that's where you will be stuck (most cases).
So if that was the case and you want to be at 800 you would have to cut back your dosage so that you actually come in under 600 (or whatever predetermined number) so that the doctor would up your dosage. But this process would require that the patient understand his numbers and has already dialed in previously. It's kind of like the chicken and the egg.
But if you've been around the scene for a long enough time it's doable.
Question bro cuz seems like this is your business -
If your natty is 250 range-
How much (your best guess)
Would 200mg cyp ew mean for levels?
500?
750?
Just best guess -
The reason I ask Is because I got bloods prior to starting cycle and was at 240/
Then returned 6 wks later after 500mg cyp
600mgs eq ew
But ordered wrong damn test-
My free test came back cuz that's all I asked for besides my estradiol
My free test number was given ">50"
No actual number-
My estradiol came at 30 but again
It was wrong freakjng test I asked for
Pain in ass-my estro sensitive was 125 before adex regimen and retest of estradiol showed 30- as normal
But because I asked for wrong test I didn't quite get answers I was looking for-
What test should I request-on cycle?
Full labs cost almost $300
What are most critical test to get to watch lbls and monitor sides and AI regimen?
Maybe this should of been new thread or PM
Like I said before you should probably start your own post.
"Would 200mg cyp ew mean for levels?" It varies from by individual. Some might come in at 600 others might come in at 1100.
Read this on the blood work that you need. I wrote this earlier.
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/bloodwork-what-to-get-a....
I think the link you gave me is wrong
Says error and that strange cartoon cat picture appears upper rt screen
Looks like good read but can't see
Perfect
Thank you Sir
You are welcome.
I think the links on this site get messed up with the "period" or something. It happens from time to time. If anybody knows what the problem is I would appreciate it if you told me.
If you copy and paste it works if you click on it it does not.
Make sure there isn't a period at the end of the link and then it will work.
That would be the obvious one.
I've tried that it doesn't work. The "period" ha to be there. But thank you for trying to help.
Agreed. This is why I think getting an idea of my numbers on the higher dose will help and at least give me more of an educated guess on what to cut back to.
We are all unique individuals. Nobody on these boards or anywhere else can give you the exact answer you are looking for. It's all about trial and error and confirmation with bloodwork. Half-lives can vary by as much as 72 hours for testosterone c and e. It's all about how your body deals with those compounds.
Don't drop it. Do this instead:
Beginning now, taper you test down to half what he prescribed and taper tho proviron back to zero.
Now, let me explain...
Your current script of 100mg/wk will get you within normal range of what your doc expects, so you will have a hard time convincing him to raise your dose there. With the raised dose you put yourself on, obviously, you should see levels at the upper threshold or beyond. What you need to be depicted in the panel results is something in the lower threshold but not quite on the low t side, which makes negotiating an increase easier.
So, starting now, drop back to your prescribed dose for a week. Then cut that in half and roll with it until your bloodwork. As far as your doc is concerned, your running what he prescribed. And drop the proviron so that your SHBG isn't too low and free test is higher. You want him to see that his protocol is an improvement but still slightly lacking.
Now I'm curious: you must be seeing a physician. I seen nothing on AI or hcg. If you're in trt, you need both. Seems I'm repeating this a lot lately... Guess I need to make a post on the topic.
I can't help but wonder, if one is on a dose that is truly TRT (meaning that it will not raise Test to supra-physiological levels), why would the body suppress natural production thereby necessitating hCG?
It seems like a level of 600 or so (for example), should not cause suppression.
Am I missing something?
Thanks
It would cause suppression bc the leydig cells are no longer contributing, and bc the body registers that levels are sufficient; thereby, communicating via negative feedback.
Really?
Just 100mg/week will shut down Leydigs thru neg feedback? I guess that's right. University Physiology is hazy but I seem to recall that once the level of a given messenger or hormone etc is within range, inhibition sets in.
Thanks man!
(Or actually... Remembering more now...
It's probably that the inhibition of inhibition is decreased.
So many of the principles in Physio were counter intuitive but, as they said in maths, "elegant" when one begins to see the larger picture. Yeah, I said elegant, but No Homo)
Why is the HCG important for TRT? If fertility is not an issue, is it just to keep size?
Thanks Dossier,
and you are correct, the MD has put me on nothing but Test at 100 mg a week. I do have Aromasin on hand and I have taken it a couple of times thus far (left nip gets itchy). I will cut back to 50 mg a week from now until lab time. I will drop the Provirion too..Should I push him for HCG?
Ok. Labs are in. Just to refresh memories my starting test level was 196. My script was for 200mg Test C once every 2 weeks.
Instead of following the script I was taking 150 weekly as well as 50 MG of Proviron ED. This was for 10 weeks.
For the last 3 weeks prior to new labs I cut out the proviron altogether, cut my Test C dosage to 50mg a week for 2 weeks, then I took 1 dose of 100mg and had my labs drawn 11 days later.
Results:
Total Test = 229
Free= 8.
Estradiol = 11.80
So I guess I shorted myself too much or perhaps my levels were not as high as I thought they were....have to review these numbers with my MD on Wednesday so I am not sure how he will respond to these numbers.
he is not going to be happy........ I would tell him you were traveling one week and missed your dose.......... tell him you forgot your medication at home and didn't think it was a big deal........ that's the road I would go.
Actually his response today was "wow ur levels are still really low, why don't we double to 200 mg a week and I will see you in December"....
How can I argue with that?
You cant
So I have dosed the 200 a week for 4 weeks now and tested 3 days after last injection.
Test total is 1279. Free is 433.6. Estradiol is 57. Any advice? Add an AI? How much? And maybe cut back to 175mg a week on the Test?
You did exactly what would've done.
Errr. You don't think I can get away with saying the labs were drawn 13 days from last dose? My script is still 200 mg every 14 days...
They would probably think there is something incompatible between your body and injectable testosterone and switch you to a different treatment like Clomid or hCG. You definitely don't want to do that. Just say you were dummy and forgot to take your medicine with you before you left on the trip. Can't argue that one. He will just tell you to reschedule your labs down the road.
I would, but bc of his narrow scope and the fact that you're trying to push him to up your dose, you may wanna wait until not this blood test but the next. Bc if you tell him something like, "I'm worried about testicular atrophy and fertility issues, could we add hcg to my treatment plan to take care of those?" He will most likely say, "yes, but we will keep your test dose the same bc I feel the hcg will cause a rise in your levels enough to provide what you're lacking." So, take it one step at a time.
Well this MD seems to lack in the area of TRT. This will be my first blood work since I started ( which will be 14weeks in). And after this next appointment in March he has already asked for a 1 year appointment.
At 46yrs old fertility and slightly smaller nuts are not a huge concern for me. But if HCG provides other benefits I will certainly ask him about it.
I think the plan will be:
Take the prescribed dose tomorrow, and have my own labs done next week just to get an idea of where I am at. If really high maybe I will skip a week and then do 50mg a week until his lab test on the 19th?
Sound reasonable?