test e, tren e, dbol cycle; Advanced tren users please comment
I'm running this cycle because I just came off a completely bunk cycle from another source. So Ijust ordered more gear from my top source. I will be running Tren e, test e, and dbol as a kicker for 4 weeks at 50 mg ed. The numbers for this cycle came out very weird so bear with me. I did not show this on the chart but I am adding anavar in 4 weeks towards the end of the cycle to harden up for an upcoming show. I will also be using HCG starting once I feel some shrinkage. I'm also looking for advice on when to start PCT, I'm assuming its the same as with a straight test e cycle so just 2 weeks after last pin? I also much prefer long esters and am pretty I tune with my body. I usually don't have sides but I know tren is powerful so any advice on sides is welcomed.
Here is how the numbers came out:
tren e 200mg/ml. 1.32cc =264mg per pin. pinning twice a week=528mg per week
test e 300mg/ml. tren:test ratio 2:1, so 528mg/2=276mg per week.
Thanks for any input guys. Im really pissed about my last cycle as I was pretty much natural for 8 weeks before realizing the stuff was bad :(
Stats:
5'6
205lbs
7.7% bf
| Week | Testosterone Enanthate | Trenbolone Enanthate | dbol | caber(as needed) | Nolva/Clomid | Anavar |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 276mg | 528mg | 50mg ed | .5mg e4d | ||
| 2 | 276mg | 528mg | 50mg ed | |||
| 3 | 276mg | 528mg | 50mg ed | |||
| 4 | 276mg | 528mg | 50mg ed | |||
| 5 | 276mg | 528mg | ||||
| 6 | 276mg | 528mg | ||||
| 7 | 276mg | 528mg | ||||
| 8 | 276mg | 528mg | ||||
| 9 | 276mg | 528mg | ||||
| 10 | 138mg | 528mg | ||||
| 11 | 276mg | 528mg | ||||
| 12 | 276mg | 528mg | 50mg ed | |||
| 13 | 276mg | 528mg | 50mg ed | |||
| 14 | 276mg | 528mg | 50mg ed | |||
| 15 | 276mg | 528mg | 50mg ed | |||
| 16 | ||||||
| 17 | ||||||
| 40/40/100/100 | ||||||
| 40/100/100 | ||||||
| 20/20/50/50 | ||||||
| 20/20/50/50 |
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This kid is 23 and you are all promoting a compound that is wayyyy premature for his cycle history!
IdontliftPeople are going to do what they want to do. Why not give them advise they are looking for instead of going off and possibly getting bad information from somewhere else.
thanks for all the feedback guys!
IdontliftI don't believe in running tren with a moderate to high dose of test with it as well. Run enough test to just replace your natural levels. Think about it, Tren is FIVE TIMES more anabolic. Why add extra test and cause increase in estrogen? Here is a VERY good read on Tren. It is linked to the second page of the post so just go to page one. http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-steroids-questions-answers/508157-ato...
Look at the guy who posted it. Does he look like a 280lb bodybuilder to you? Nah not even close. If he was huge maybe his tren theory might seem more convincing
Nah test is very anabolic. Tren has a higher anabolic rating but bottom line nothing puts size on like high test.
the combo of high test and high tren is incredible
IdontliftTest is anabolic but Tren is FIVE times more anabolic. I mean why would you want to increase sides and estrogen with more test when taking 500 of tren is like taking 2500mg of test Week? Don't get me wrong if you ran a G of test a week with tren you would get better results but I thought the point of running cycles is to get as MUCH improvement with the LEAST amount of sides. Running really low test you don't even have to run a estrogen blocker just a prolactin inhibitor. Why add all that extra stress and money into your cycle when it is not really necessary?
For me I've always liked test same dose as tren. I don't get sides from tren, other than sweating.
0.5 caber a week and adex e3d not that big of a deal really
500mg of tren is NOT like taking 2500mg of test. BULLSHIT. you are brainwashed by broscience. You do realize those numbers (anabolic/androgenic rating) are not accurate at all.
Trust me test is more anabolic at the end of the day because muscle cells need a certain amount of testosterone to maintain or the body will only hold so much size at a given time. At lower doses 750mg or less yeah tren is more anabolic but that's when test starts doing its magic after that point because it takes a certain amount after the natural amount the body has to start really stacking muscle
Thank you - 13 years later.
IdontliftI understand about "broscience" and it's influences on this kind of subject. I don't know if you read that article I posted but it seems far away from broscience. He explains himself pretty scientifically and seems to be on point. Not to mention the amount of post I have seen that people (with a long cycle history) lowered there test from your method of running tren and said they absolutely loved it. I'm the one to say your wrong but I would like a more scientific explanation to why the scientific breakdown in the post is broscience.
I ran a 26 week tren cycle and used high and low test doses so I'm not basing this off of what some person said or some post someone made but off real experience personally I have tried all doses of test and know what doses are best for each goal. For pure bulking high test is the way to go no doubt about it but if you want to be lean dry and low sides then yes low test is good
I read that whole article like 6 months ago. It has some good information but there's nothing that wasn't already known
This was his argument directly pulled from the article
Okay his argument is very weak and he displays no understanding of the Pharmacodynamics of the drug whatsoever. All he says is less estrogen and bloat and gyno, well ya no shit thats what test does thats why we have proviron and arimidex...
IdontliftOkay I totally get your point. It just seems a little more "user friendly" to run with low test. Thanks for actually trying to explain yourself. You're making me double think how I want to run my next cycle now lol
it is. absolutely low test means low sides. But I'm saying things like proviron and correct ancillary protocol and side effects do not become an issue
everyone responds differently to steroids. Some people can tolerate high test doses without needing an AI, others get gyno off 300mg per week AND AI use. Same goes for tren, some people get crazy and get into fights and throw shit uncontrollably, others are completely stable and calm with zero issues. It's something each individual needs to learn and the only way to find out and experimenting. Start with low doses and adjust as necessary and pay close attention to side effects and gains and see for yourself what works best.
My favorite setup for big bulk gains cycle
test E 600-750mg/wk
tren E 750mg/wk
boldenone 600mg/wk
proviron 50mg ed
arimidex 0.25mg ed
favorite lean hard dry shredded cycle
test E 375mg/wk (250mg/ml 0.5ml 3x a week)
tren A 50-100mg/day
tren E 200-375mg/wk
proviron 100mg/day
adex 0.25mg ed
anavar 50mg ed
user friendly tren cycle would be
250mg test E/wk
200mg tren E/wk
50mg tren A/day
adex, proviron
Tren E combined with tren A means LESS side effects because it reduces the fluctuations in acetate levels between injections
IdontliftVery very interesting. I might have to try that bulk cycle for my next. Maybe minus a little Tren lol I don't think I could take that. Thanks a ton for the advise. I'm always looking to learn more or different thought processes behind WHY.
Props to you man for going the extra mile and giving an explanation and not leaving it at "you're wrong." Also props on not being a total dick. Favorite part about the logs is seeing someones view backed by tangible evidence.
No problem. I can attempt to get in depth about how steroid hormones work by activating specific genes via stimulation of receptor molecules in skeletal muscle cells, as well as how they affect the activation rate of enzyme systems involved in protein metabolism, but it would probably be a waste of time if no one knows what I'm talking about.
Back to my point. TEST is the most anabolic hormone. Tren is RATED higher based on it's effect on prostate growth in rats. That is where the 500:500 A/A rating for tren comes from and test is rated 100:100. This does not actually mean tren is 5 times more anabolic than test, it simply means it binds to the receptor stronger than test does. BUT test overall will elicit a higher anabolic effect at a certain point. Steroids don't just cause anabolism by "activating receptors" they also change the way the body responds to cortisol which is a stress hormone. Cortisol causes catabolism, so blocking the effect results in less muscle breakdown and more muscle kept
also estrogen is very anabolic, and has it's own set of positive effects on the body as well. This is another mechanism why test INDIRECTLY is more anabolic. Yes test doesn't bind to receptors as strong, but when it gets converted other anabolic effects can occur
I would definitely enjoy that. My sister is an M3, while they dont learn specifically about AAS, it's definitely nice to have her as a resource when it gets in depth to run terminology by her. I actually asked her about this situation late last night and it cleared a lot of grey areas up. Thanks for the contribution!
Why put more test in you if it's not going to be used and be blocked by the tren. That's just what I got from reading and lookin at other peoples cycle logs.
test is not going to be blocked by tren. You have to understand hormones are ligands to our receptors which initiate anabolism when bound. Both tren and test can bind to the receptors, and your body synthesizes more receptors when they are all used up
I thought test and tren fight for the same receptors so that's the reason for always running high tren low test. The extra free test would just convert to estro.
That's why I always run Proviron with my tren cycles
Wow that is a good read, thanks. I don't have test prop or tren ace so I was going to run tren e and test e at dosages equal per week to what someone using tren ace and test prop would use per week. So the doses I have listed currently would be the same as someone using test prop at 50mg/day and tren ace at 75mg/day. Now that I've read that I may take his advice and lower the dosages to test e 100mg/week, and tren e at 200 mg/week and see how that goes.
IdontliftSounds like the better bet to me! Yeah it is a fantastic post to keep handy. Basically beaks everything down and really explains WHY to take it the right way and WHY it just doesn't make sense to run the test high with it. Hope it all goes well.
IMO, even if you prefer long esters, I would run tren Ace instead of E because you can more actively adjust dosing rather than having to wait on your body to break it down. For a first timer, I think it would be much easier to listen to your body if you ran Ace. Tren is awesome stuff, I think you will be very impressed, make sure and grab some caber or pram.
You plan on running test all the way up to your show? And hcg? Both are going to cause unwanted water retention. Throw your stats up in the log...that may be keepin some people from commenting
Yea I was going to just run the cycle through show time. I figured once I cut the sodium and water, the water retention wouldn't matter so much. I'll be starting HCG once I feel my boys start disappearing lol what would you recommend for like 4 weeks out maybe save the anavar for another cycle and grab some mast? How do people usually work their cycles around shows??
I think mast or winny is a must here. Personally I would switch over to shorts 5 weeks out and drop test 10 days out. Have you ran this cycle for a show before?
No actually this is the first show I'm doing with gear so I'm pretty excited it is also my first tren cycle and I do prefer longer esters. The only reason I'm running tren so soon is because I feel I have a good handle on my body and how it reacts. I really don't want to use winny because of the increased LDL, and joint issues it causes but I had wanted to try some mast. So save the anavar and use the mast instead? Should I run it for like 6 weeks leading up to the show and at like 400mg/week?
What hve you ran before? Def wouldn't recommend tren e right off then
Just a full test e cycle and a bunk test e, mast e and eq cycle