+ 28 Mass Spec Explained~Sleight of hand exposed
It is time for a little education on mass spectrometry testing, I hope you all find it useful and for those that don’t perhaps you’ll find it interesting. I will keep it as simple as possible without getting too technical.
There are several different types of testing in the mass spectrometry world and we are gonna focus on two for right now. They are the most common results that we see here on this site. They are the HPLC Column test and the Spectrum test. While each one has its purpose and is useful in its own way, without being applied correctly they can be very misleading. At the heart of these tests is the molecular weight of the compound being tested. The spectrum test identifies all the ions within a sample based on their molecular weight within a predefined range. 0-800m/z is the range that all anabolic steroids fall between with the oil, BA, and BB being outside that scope. The molecular weight of the target compound is compared to a known sample to verify the compound is present. Once that is verified we take the quotient of the target compound (X) and the total of unknown ions that make up all the other molecular weights (Y) to arrive at a purity (X/Y). The density of the target compound relative to the suspension is again compared to a known sample to verify if the correct dosage has been made. While that measurement is accurate, it cannot be exact. That is more of a function of the HPLC column test.
The HPLC column test differs from the spectrum test in that it separates all the ions that pass through it and separates them into different groups where it then tests the purity of that individual group. This process is extremely useful for identifying an unknown substance in a compound, as well as it is very precise for showing a dosage. It does not calculate the amount of target compound compared to the other substances in the sample, therefore, the purity calculation that it performs is only on the target compound. (When I say target compound I am referring to the one that we are most interested in such as test or tren.) This purity percentage is very misleading since people think that it is an overall purity, which is not true. To oversimplify it:
Full Spectrum Testing: 10 people in a room, 2 blondes, 8 brunettes = 80% brunettes
HPLC Column testing: 10 People in a room, 2 blondes, 8 brunettes. 2 blondes are put in a different room and now = 100% brunettes.
Now that all that has been defined I get a lot of PM’s from people and sources that are excited because they just got an amazing find from a standup guy in China that wants to send them 99.9% pure raw material and has tests to prove it. When that raw material is put through the spectrum test they are always disappointed in the results, and rightfully so because they were sold on the idea that they had ultra-pure raw material. The problem is that our friends in China are running the HPLC column test, which we know isolates the target compound and then tests it for purity, and are selling it as a full spectrum test. You can spot a column test easily enough because the purity is always 98-99.9% pure. That isn’t to say that 97% isn’t possible with a spectrum test because we have seen that once or twice, but it is very rare.
So the moral of the story is that if you are in the market for raw material and you are being sold a Ferrari at Hyundai price, you might scrutinize the proof a little. Then take your newly gained knowledge and wield it so that you don’t become a victim.
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I actually laughed at the tits part. was early in the am and I wasn't expecting it lol
And he's banned..
angusTrue, he looks pretty banned to me too. IDK that I've ever seen a source banned but let me answer his questions just for others.
Purity is the number of ions of our target compound that reside in the suspension
Potency is the total number of ions in the suspension
A source can make a 10ML vial that is 250mg/ml for a grand total of 2,500mg or, simplified, 2.5grams. They physically put the 2.5g of powder in the suspension. But if the powder only has a 50% purity then the Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient is only 1.25G, or 125mg/ml. This is where a lot of people get confused and think their source is screwing them and the source is insistent that they are using the proper dosage. Both are right and both are getting screwed by the sources manufacturer.
This is very very valuable info! 50% water in a glass 50% whiskey. That water that is in the glass is 100% pure the whiskey inside the glass is 100% pure. But in the end your whiskey has been watered down!
Excellent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! layman's terms...done right !!!
Beautiful post...
AnonMass spec is what my wife calls my pecker during pct!!
ZewiAnabolX(HPLC) High-performance liquid chromatography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-performance_liquid_chromatography
(NMR) Nuclear magnetic resonance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_NMR
http://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/faculty/reusch/VirtTxtJml/Spectrpy/nmr/nmr...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_magnetic_resonance
(GC-MS) Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chromatography%E2%80%93mass_spectrometry
http://www.unsolvedmysteries.oregonstate.edu/MS_05
Great thread Angus. You dumbed it down so much that even I almost understand it.
LOL, i was just thinking damn near the same exact thng! +1 tho angus even tho you always make me feel dumb with these types of thngs haha
AnonSTICKY THIS SHITTTTT BRO
angusI don't think that is something I do is it? I believe that is up to the site administrator.
AnonIm quite aware of how things work around here lol, just being a tool lol!
I believe I read before where a mod said that all four mods vote on what becomes a sticky.
It has to be a MODs decision to make it a sticky.
Ace VenturaAlways bringing da troof brother, good post and great work. I'm not sure what the hell is going on with the bottom half of this page and beyond though. +1
Ok wow. Couple questions-
1) I have "friends in china"? Doubtful.
2) can i have sex with the brunettes?
3) i have never seen an intelligent thread get this completely fucked up (MDMA, zipties? really? I havent even read the second or third page... yet)
4) Regardless of the technical value this post is incredibly useful at its core because it shines a bright light on those (unscrupulous motherfucking) people that attempt to take money from eroiders through dishonesty. Anus (that is a killer nickname and im only going to use it once because i respect the guy) is an invaluable asset to this site. Okay, that wasnt a question, that was a statement.
Way to go homey. +1
angusCouple of answers for you:
That was sarcasm
Absolutely you can have sex with the brunettes......I didn't mention if they were female or male though. Is that important?
Ya it got a little out of hand, I haven't posted in a while and everyone came out to play.
Thank you, we try to educate and make safe. We want eroids to be the authority on steroids and everything associated with it.
1) oh, well now this is awkward
2) doesnt matter. like my gramma always says, "a butt hole is a butt hole and a mouth is a mouth"
3) you certainly are popular
4) didnt read the last one, got lazy
It's my fault!! I'm sorry! A girl mentions one thing about having a little fun with some other women and things get out of hand... Anbro, hangs her head and walks out of the thread.. Hoping anus still loves me for my amazing beauty.. Also, that's a personal nickname you can not use it
Its all fun and games until someone gets hurt
My apologies for usurping the nickname, wont happen again. Felt dirty coming out anyway.
+1 my good brother! You have helped our community immensely. I always look forward to reading your post and gaining knowledge :-)
Very informative! Thanks +1
Good post bro. Very good explanation. +1 for kicking ass.
HPLC and Mass Spec testing go together. You CAN NOT do one without the other.
THE HPLC or UPLC is the method that IONIZES the sample... the Mass Spec the reads molecular weights of the ions based on the IONIZATION of the HPLC/ UPLC process for the detector. In-order to perform a COLUMN test, a device is placed in-between the HPLC/UPLC and the Mass spec detector. It is TUNED to the molecular weight of the compound in question. This will isolate and produce a much cleaner target compound reading. I do not use the filter and detect the entire spectrum from the IONIZED sample in totem.
To me, full spectrum is a more accurate data-gram of the sample in question.
Again, this is honest, fun and intelligent conversation that enlightens and educates every one.
Thank you for your time and ear.
Sincerely,
Beaker
angusFun and intelligent, agreed. Hopefully people understand a more technical description, I tried to make mine very simplistic. showoff! LOL.
Seriously though, I think you touched on it when you said that it educates everyone. That is all we want to do is educate because knowledge is power!
As with all forms of testing, there are different variations that can be preformed in order to effect the outcome. Usually, column testing is for compound isolation from an unknown or known sample. Like looking for a particular compound in a fish sample from the gulf region due to the oil spill 2 years ago.
Angus has been, is and will continue to be the "face" of Beaker / Angus team. He is smart, knows his way around the forum and is relentless. I am JUST the lab geek. I am the nerd that hides behind the plant at the office party. Think..... Big Bang Theory.... Howard or Lenard.. not as bat shit crazy as Sheldon. The point being, we have established almost a 2 YEAR track record of these labs. Look at them, compare them. You will see very little variation in the methodologies and data. I have mountains of historical data on ION counts and concentrations. I am happy there are alternate avenues to be used, if i was the ONLY one, then it wold be bad.
Summation:
Angus is correct... in the purity and testing replies. All is correct. Like I said, he has a way with words.
We are a TEAM and as such will be honest and truthful. After all, we are not only testers, we are clients!
Beaker
P.S. Excellent work Angus and all that have replied! It is refreshing to know the community is active!
ZewiAnabolXI know Analytical Method HPLC... But what about H-NMR???
Also how much of a % drop if any can there be between HPLC and Mass Spec testing???
angusThere can be up to 99.9% drop. If there is .01% target molecule in a compound, the column testing isolates it, tests it and shows it to be 99% pure because it is the only substance in the room.
Don't want to hijack the thread but can anyone tell me via pm why Novice got banned so I can relay the message to him?
Pm sent
Wth, novice just got banned? Lol accidental ban hammer?
X2! WTF?:-/
angusx3
I was just wondering the same thing..
Anus, you put a wrinkle in my brain... however, I will have A explain all this once I get home..
Sorry for Jacking you thread Anus!
see you next time!
Now if you are misspelling his name on purpose that is very funny! But if you are doing it by accident it is plain Hysterical!!!
angusShe is doing it on purpose, she's real funny......but looks aren't everything and the angus and andi show goes waaaaaay back.
Ohhh! Lol, I am coming to the party late. You know that is catchy though the Angus & Andi Show:)
Anus here and I do go way back.. like three weeks back... and the Anus & Andi Show was a one man show.. that stared only him.. I was zip tied to a chair for entertainment purposes only... he kept saying.. "it puts the lotion on the skin". It was canceled after 7 minutes.
Anonthis is fucking with me... are there 2 color purples in your post. is this real life?
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Okay, I'm going to stop before I get in trouble.:-/
I did that just for you..
I know you love when I fuck with you...
ZewiAnabolXI see two too
angusYou mean he has to draw you a picture, right? with crayon? ;-)
Shit I was hoping he would have 2 blondes, 8 brunettes when I got home.. that would really help me understand the problem better!! But crayons will work... if you haven't eaten all of them.
Im pretty sure I can pull of getting 8 Brunettes and 2 blondes over here! MDMA is a hell of a drug! Test, Tren, proviron, TNE and MDMA.... Shit we may not leave the house for a month!
Hmmmmm, if I bring some G am I invited?
I thought you were already on your way?
I'm waiting for these two caps of salty monkey sweat to level off before I get behind the wheel. Safety first.