posted Thu, 09/19/2013 - 10:22
9204
+ 2 blood test results / very weird
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so here is the issue.
i am on 9th week of cycling . my cycle at first was pretty much 62.5mg testp Eod for about 5/6wks.
i introduced tren ace at around week 5. so now my cycle looks like this
50mg test p EOD / 125 mg tren ace ED.
tren ace is currently in its 4th week and i have about 7 more to go, for a total of 16 weeks, that this cycle will potentially last.
here is my issue. the estrogen is really high, maybe im not responding to adex, but at the same token my prolactin and progesterone is super low?
any insight?
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From my research I firmly believe it's false positive. Which happens with any Tren ester and I'm wondering now if it's the same with NPP which is a 19nor .You have to understand that an Electrochemiluminescence Immunoassay (ECLIA) is an automated test that just looks for a certain reaction. It has certain calibrations. I believe something in 19nors throws these calibrations off. It's used because it is quick and cheap but it can be fooled. Just like ELISA (enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay can be fooled. It does not look for a certain molecule are atom like LC/MS would.
Think about this, with his test levels only in the 600's and estradiol in the upper 300's his T/E ratio is so out of wack that if this were a true reading there is no way he would not have sides impossible. I would use an AI based on the amount of Testosterone you are using are you will crash your true E2 and this I promise, you will feel it when it happens. So think about this Trenbolone does not aromatise but testosterone does. 25mgs of test will not raise your E2 to those levels.
AnonI'm not sold on the Nandralone bro. I was running 1200mg Sust and 600mg Deca and my E2 didn't look anything like this. The Tren issue seems to be the most widely used Compound on these Blood Tests. You guys are definitely onto something here with that. Have u seen any other Lab companies who don't use this method? Is it isolated to Lab Corp?
I going to have to agree with you because as I was sitting thinking about it, NPP will aromatize just not to the extent that testosterone does. Tren does not aromatise to estrogen. Was going to change it but you posted up so I couldn't.
All the major labs (Quest and Lab Corp being the largest) use ECLIA because of fast turn around and low cost. Roche is the major producer of the testing equipment.
You might want to take a look at these labs and read the treads and tell me what you think. All I know is that when Angus was on Tren for the EBC his E2 was wacked at 561. He took adex,aro,letro. It took forvever to bring it down and once he got off his e2 was crashed. So that real world experience leads me to believe the readings are a false positive. Hell Billgoat had a 1200 E2 reading with no sides. If you read the posts on these labs your have other guys coming forward and saying hell ya my e2 was crazy while on tren but I didn't have any sides. Do a gram of test and your e2 will elevate with out an AI and tell me how you feel at 150 E2. These guys were at 246, 461,561,822,1100 E2 what they had in common they were all on TREN.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/labcorp-blood-test-showing-high-e2-while-on-tren
http://www.eroids.com/pics/tren-causing-bogus-elevated-estradiol-levels-...
http://www.eroids.com/pics/e2-saga-continues-still-over-400
http://www.eroids.com/sites/default/files/gearpic/24359/Test%20LAb.jpg
http://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/pct-anti-estrogens/week-8-bloods...
angusMega, you are right in all that you have posted but I want to throw something very important out for people to digest. The OP is running 25mg/ed of test and THERE'S NO FUCKING WAY POSSIBLE TO HAVE E2 THAT HIGH, his testosterone is in the normal range for someone his age. Something doesn't pass the sniff test with this person. His liver values are horrible because of all the orals that he is on. He neglected to tell people that he is on an ORAL tren! At least that is what his cycle layout indicates. Oral Tren? I'm guessing that is the source of the problem. he reviewed Ares yelling bunk about the #1 source, and I am no fanboy by any means, but that shows some insight to the OP's character.
here is the situation. i only tried oral tren for about a week before i dropped it. i am no longer taking oxandrolone. been about a good week. the only things i am taking now is the nolvadex and i started incorporating lgd-4033 at 3mg per day. so with that said IT IS NOT Oral Tren
AnonTheres definitely a case to be made on the Nolvadex issue. Using Nolvadex with a 19nor does weird shit.
19nors + labcorp = weirdshit. I'm thinking back on it... I've even had slightly elevated levels of e2 w/ npp.. where I had to incrase my AI. Only to later find my levels had crashed, when I got off npp and was retested for E2.
bam! i think you are right. i have that right now estro levels in 400's and i am on NPP 300mg/week but i know when i have estro symptoms and i definitely do not. i am switching to aromasin just in case tho. we will see i will get more bloods.
AnonWhen u do that put them up side by side. Lets get this shit dialed in so nobody has any issues. It would be nice for anyone running a similar set up to post bloods side by side as well.
I'm going in for a draw on Saturday..I will be checking my e2 and prolactin along with a bunch of other shit I'm running 500 test e and 600 npp right now so if the npp has an effect...I've been running maintenance doses of caber and aridimex..and I def do not have any elevated e2 sides..
Will do. I will be very interested to see what happens after the switch. I will get bloods again in two weeks to give the aro time to work. i will also get labcorp to do the test again. i will keep all of my other regimen exactly the same.
AnonThank u brother. This means a lot to all of us. Hopefully we can get some momentum with other members doing the same.
AnonYa I had a long fix to brothers cycle. I edited out after reading your post. I'm digesting the info you present. I have read so much on 19nor and I have never seen anything like what u are saying. It's not that I don't believe u. I just need to process this. Very intriguing.
I hear yah bro. If you come across anything interesting in your research... Give me a heads up.
AnonSo did mega ever write a thread on this?
Sure did...
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/tren-causing-bogus-elev...
Edit.
yea i was just wondering i was the one takin 200 mg of cyp and got that reading a two weeks after yea hes running a trt dose
DON'T OD ON ARIMDEX. DON'T CRASH YOUR E2 LEVELS. DON'T BLAME MUTA.
IT IS THE FUCKING TREN, causing bogus readings, BLAME LABCORP's testing methodology.
I bet if you drop the tren, then get retested your elevated estro levels will disappear!!!!. I will put $500 on this bet, if any of you fucking bro-scientists are willing to take me on.
CAPS LOCK INTENDED.
Look at my labs. I was running pharma adex, pharma test cyp and 200mg of Tren E
http://www.eroids.com/pics/tren-causing-bogus-elevated-estradiol-levels-...
I have to agree it's not the Adex.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/e2-saga-continues-still-over-400
AnonThanks brother. Learn something new each day
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkNo problem brother...
This problem really needs to get addressed thoroughly. And it just takes a few seconds of critical thinking really.
I hate it when knuckle heads come on a post and automatically start blaming a source's product as being bunk or just advise to take more AI and miss the fucking elephant in the room. The dude simply doesn't have enough test in him to to convert to such insane levels of e2. Think about it for a few seconds. His total test is 600!
Something else is causing these elevated readings... And it exactly fits a pattern High E2, Low Dose Exo-Test, Labcorp & Tren.
Exactly...look at your test dosage and see if it makes sense to have that much aromatization.
RustyhookerTren is a weird beast! On basic test cycles dudes were non-responsive to adex...switched to aro and fine.
Low test is easy to see. Rouds cause shutdown so test is at that level because of his pins. Low test with tren because competing receptors.
This is where i am definitly confused. The post of zewi vs post of labcorp misdiagnosing. We definitly need to get bloods and tren info flowing. We don't like kiddies on tren but now were at spot of theories and not a complete remedy/answer.
:(
Slightly OT, but might underscore doing a test only cycle so you can tell if something doesn't add up in terms of estrogen symptoms for situations like this down the road.
I hear yah, it is kinda blurry and confusing.
Zewi's post about fat burning causing elevated e2 is IMO batshit. Especially when we are discussing high e2 levels at 300+ with such a low amount of test being used. Couple that with no symptoms of elevated E2. Now throw in Tren. Then throw in the test at Labcorp, while on. If you get the same result every time... The problem gets clearer. To me, its a bogus test...
I'd definitely like an authority to speak on this... but so far I haven't seen much.
RustyhookerSame theory behind why i ran prop so low on tren. Keep estro down and prolactin should be cake. I kept aro at 6.25 and stayed ragun horney all cycle.
I wasn't convinced either just because of your line of reasoning.
AnonIm surprised its that high given how high his estro is!
Anonhttp://www.eroids.com/pics/estradiol-results-after-taking-mutagenic-arim...
there are many more instances where people have tested my adex and posted labs.. I just knew off top of my head Novice did. I've only made ONE single batch of ADEX and sold nearly 1000 packs of it within the last 10 months or so with no issues. I'm not a guru on the different stipulations of how running high tren/low test will affect your blood levels but I do believe guys like Snuka, Mega, Dossier can offer some more insight. Also I saw you wrote in your review you were using nolvadex.. (this is a big NO NO) its going to fight for the same receptors as ADEX therefore making it not work. Nolva stops unbound estrogen from binding but with high E2 levels to begin with.. you aren't doing yourself any favors. If you want to switch to ARO ill pay for you to get follow up blood work done.
Also, do you have baseline bloods to compare to? If I recall in the forum you previously were running oral only cycles? right?
ok. i will stop using nolva . since this week is almost over tomorrow will be the start of the first day i will not use it. so lets say 2 weeks from tomorrow without nolva and we can run another test (female hormone panel with prolactin and progesterone test included). this is the only blood test i will have to compare it to. does that sound good? the only orals i used for a while were oandrolone and winny oral. thats it. oral tren was tried for a week then dropped because i felt it wasnt doing anything
p.s i am currently waiting on exemestane to get delivered. deal. ill send you a kite when 2 weeks pass. hopefully monday i will get the stane to use.
It's not your Adex Muta it's a false reading. When Angus was doing the spring EBC he was on Tren and his E2 was 561. We threw everthing at it (adex,aro,letro)and it wouldn't go down. Products from several src's. When he finally came off his E2 was crashed. It wasn't till later we found out about this when Killroy posted up and we started digging into it. That's why I firmly believe there is a flaw in the test. That when using Tren you will get a false positive of high E2. So Angus asked me if I would do a write up about it and I agreed. Since that write up a few guys came forward.I talked with them and they posted their labs all high E2 while on tren. The majority reported no sides.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/labcorp-blood-test-showing-high-e2-while-on-tren
http://www.eroids.com/pics/tren-causing-bogus-elevated-estradiol-levels-...
http://www.eroids.com/pics/e2-saga-continues-still-over-400
I love you !!! No Homo !!!
Anon:-*
your test level is 613 isnt that kinda low which you are takin a low dose of test im on mutas test prop and ace right now @.5 of each ed and its workin amazing i havent had any bloods but ive have morning wood ed and sex drive has increased quite a bit ... im not a pro and still learning new things ed but jus last week guys were saying alliances test was underdosed cause a guy had bloods done and his level was 2200
or maybe if you had low t to start with this is where your levels should be cause when i first got on trt they took my blood two weeks after my first shot of 200mg of pharma cyp and my levels were 8 something but that was all i had taken i dont know like i said im not a pro oh and by the way my levels where 246 before that
i have to same problem with my labs that i just posted. estrogen is high but i have no signs of it whatsoever. i am not running tren though. i am running NPP. let me know what you do and what the results are. i dont think i am going to do anything since my libido is fine my nipples are not sore ect.
yeah, me too. my libido is fine as well. weird. yep will do. once i get the new stuff i will take it and see what happens. will post more bloods in a few weeks
Well.... Under no circumstances have any of mutas products ever came back bunk so I highly doubt the adex is bad. This is just plain weird. Are your nips sensitive and are you
Bloated?
I busted out some pharma aromasin...same high estrogen readings.
nips are not overly sensitive at all. no lactation or anything like that. bloat? no. i keep salt down to a minimum, ive had my dieting in check for months now. so its not. am i just one of those "labratory fuck ups" that science has no answers to lol
Other people have observed something similar to what you've seen with high tren/low test. Take a look at this:
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/tren-causing-bogus-elev...
I'd been getting high readings of estrogen even though I didn't feel any symptoms - e.g. lack of libido, sensitive nipples. In the end, I said screw what the labs say and went with how my body felt and used AI as I felt my body needed.
Note: this is a special case just for tren. I'd also read Zewi's post regarding this issue...just not quite convinced of his assertion. Personal judgement call on my part.
yeah, zewi was the first guy who ever got me onto my very first cycle . why the hell does he always get banned? in any case, my nips are not super overly sensitive , but i think the nolva is probably the reason behind helping it out. so if labcorp is fucking up all the readings, why dont we as the "consumer" get them to refund our money because frankly, these readings could pose a threat to someone who wasn't aware of the mistakes this lab makes?
Zewi has been a great resource, unfortunately somehow he ends up in the same situation. RE: labcorp, I think it has to with the new way they're obtain the readings...the problem might be presenting the issue to labcorp. Can you imagine telling them they're giving bogus readings because you're using tren? LOL. I agree the readings could cause you to use too much AI and crash your estrogen to your detriment. Anyway, it's an issue to be aware of. I just went with my gut and how my body felt. We can wait for more input.
i was also reading that having this high estro might be hindering some positive growth. not to mention if that estro was lowered, the water weight should also go and get me more cut. now its a mission to get that damn order i placed and jump on the exemstane. i will def keep you guys informed , once i get the products and post new bloods.
RustyhookerHigh bf %?
floating around 10% i can clearly see the top 4 of my abs and somewhat of the last 2 . so no, im not high bf%
RustyhookerMight get some aro then. 25Mg/day for a week then run bloods. Zewi posted a forum on high bf releasing extra estro. But you're lean. Especially with such a low dose of prop.
yeah, i had to pull the trigger and get some ar-r . cost me almost 200 dollars to get nolva clomy and exemstane. i can attest to the stane working as i have used it before, but damn, that adex had no effect.
waltrThere was a post a while back along the lines of thinking that tren is for some reason producing false estro readings from blood work.