posted Thu, 07/18/2013 - 12:45
7350
+ 2 Igf testing for HGH, better than HGH serum testing?
ad
So this topic was brought up on a pic I posted. I got some good feedback from J223 and it made me want to get more feedback from everybody. Heres the question i posted that prompted J223 to reply. Tread if you see this please chime in HomeSlice!
I've read somewhere that igf testing is a truer measure of good HgH. Care to expand on why? For whatever reason its been an unspoken rule here that HGH serum testing is the standard.
Does exogenous injections on a one time basis cause elevated IGF levels? I know it does with Serums. But this is a one time IM injection. What level range would signify a quality product? Would the timeframe stay the same?
- Bookmark
- 2
- 0
http://www.eroids.com/sites/default/files/gearpic/21800/lab.JPG
IGF and GH Serum are elevated.
Keep in mind I was on Sandoz Omnitrope HGH for months before switching to Serostims which might be the reason for high IGF level also.
AnonSince I believe my recent lab work is partly the cause of this recent dabate , I will say this goes along just fine with the results I posted for bloods, given I had taken no HGH for ten days prior.
Again I am sticking with my notion that Growth Syrum is the more important number over a high IGF number.
The reason I measured IGF was because if the HGH was fake it could potentially yield a high IGF number, but would have been low on Growth Syrum.
My results from my HGH test did exactly what I had hoped to show me its good HGH.
Im going to speak to my HRT Doc as he will prescribe HGH and GHR-2/GHRP-6 Peptides. Maybe he can share more info on the subject. In the meantime I'm waiting on MS testing on Pharma and Generic HGH.
AnonThats great ! And will you ask him about what I said regarding IGF in the body being a precursor to releasing GH
HGH causes an increase in IGF.
AnonI know that part , Im just looking to reafirm my thought that during the bodys natural cycle of releasing GH that IGF is a precursor to it.
Im sure theres a relationship between the two and my point all along is that if you take HGH and blood test it you will get high syrum (if good) and IGF will depend on how long youve been using.
If you take IGF LR3 then your IGF numbers will be high but your growth syrum wont be .
The point I have been trying to make is if you are judging the quality of HGH then more emphasis should be placed on Groth syrum levels, not IGF . Because you cant get high igf without growth syrum, but you could get high IGF with no growth syrum.
Get me ?
Yep, but the last line you wrote IGF twice. The first IGF should say HGH.
Anonyou lost me, I re read and dont see the line you mean
Anonyeah thats not worded quite right , but I think if I tried again Id still do it wrong. But I think you know what I mean. Its been a loooong hot day
I'll pick his brain for as much info as possible. Very cool Doc. Been with this clinic for many years. I even go em to Perscribe me T3
More details about the test please? When were bloods drawn etc..
http://www.eroids.com/pics/serostim-gh-serum-65.7
Dude that was 18iu! I only pulled 10 Iu when I tested the Serostims. Hit 19.4, but an hour late for the draw 4 hrs 20 mins, coming down the other side of the peak. Even though I had an appointment the lab was packed. ;-(
Sounds about right. So I would suspect the range would be high 20's low 30's if you took the test an hour earlier. Which is about where hyges and rips are and slightly above VIPs
It'll be interesting to see what the MS shows on the Serostims
Long live pharma!
Damn straight
So you injected 18 IU's serostim and got 65.7 serum. Nice
Lol...yez zirrr.
I wonder what it would be if you had only done 10iu
AnonAlso wonder what it would be if he just started his HGH protocol, instead of already on for a couple months.
Theres a ton of variables here a lot of people arent taking in to account. Not saying thats you J , just seems like people are getting worked up and before you know it they'll have deemed all this HGH as fake. Fine for me though I'll scoop it up. I know what fake HGH tests like and it aint none of what Ive seen lately.
AnonFrom what I also recall IGF in the body is a precurser to it releasing its natural Growth Syrum.
Injecting HGH gives the syrum without the precursor.
AnonI just want to make sure all the people chiming in here, esp about IGF numbers being the true measure are speaking from actual experience with their own blood work right ?
Or is this just theoretical from some info gleaned on another board somewhere ?
beyondimportsMine is all off bloodwork
yea it would be interesting to see how 2 or 3 different people do if they run the same tests. I'm sure there would be some variation, but not sure how much.
One thing is for sure you DID run green tops and novice was hitting yellow tops so they are very different. You also hit all 10iu in your delt and he split delt and glute. Lots of things that could cause a change in results. I wouldn't rule out the green tops though, I'm sure a few more tests might be able to help confirm the strength since we already know they are high quality from mass spec.
WithdrawlI agree 100% with everything you've said. There's a lot of room for variation with a 3.5 hour window and peoples bodies being different. Not to say this test wasn't accurate, because it very well could be timed perfectly with how his body processes the HGH. I just think that other tests should be done before ruling out this HGH. Man I wish there was one true way to tell 100% how good an HGH product is.
Anonanother HUGE factor is fasting . Any food in the stomach will affect Growth Syrum readings. So if a person did not fast for 12 hours like recommended then the readings will be a lot lower.
I think someone else should run a blood test on it. Someone like me. Mail me a vial
AnonSo what happens if you are taking the peptide IGF 1LR3 ? It would seem as if that would give a very high IGF level
I have plenty of that , perhaps I'll go off the HGH and blood test on IGF to see what happens. My guess is that igf number will be high, but growth syrum low
Give me 2 weeks and I'll run that experiment. Like I said I predict it will yield the opposite results I just got from testing HGH.
I think the HGH serum test can be quite deceiving, for the results can be manipulated using different peptides. The Chinese know their shit.
AnonSee thats funny because I thought it was the IGF number that can be more easilly manipulated.
I'll put this to the test in 2 weeks though.
EDIT:
Just read your post down there, you want a quick method to determine if HGH is gtg. Well I don't know about those mass specs but I never saw Somatropin in any lab results posted here. Also the mg dosages are weird I don't know. I'm a pharma guy and know that 1mg Soma is 3IUs GH. Mass Spec results posted on these forums don't agree with that, and I never saw an explanation by any source selling these generics.
I think you already know my opinion about the whole GH issue. Pay a little more and get the real deal.
Yes peptides can slightly increase HGH serum, but i have asked over and over when people bring this up and no research I have found on any of these peptides will give a 20 serum level increase in 3.5 hrs. If you have additional information please share.
Jacked up doses of peptides can cause a nice GH pulse from the pituitary... Maybe it's a mixture of both.
Thats the thing, people keep saying this is possible with no specific information on what peptide it is how much needs to be dosed, how high, or how long this "Pulse" lasts. Information on the specific peptides someone else posted showed the information in the studies I've read show these to induce "normal" or "small" size pulses. Not 10 x the normal range. IMO people are offering this as a possibility with no evidence at all. Which doesn't help anyone.
We're clearly talking about GHRPs + GHRHs here. What peptides did the studies have?
AnonSo really we are all fucked then? What would u suggest besides saying run pharma which I already know is true. Basically brother I'm simply at a loss from my recent lab pix. High mass spec. Moderate serum levels. Any ideas what might be wrong?
High mass spec of WHAT? I don't remember seeing any Somatropin in any mass spec.
Anonhttp://www.eroids.com/pics/true-quality-control-measures-via-muta-marciano
These were Hyges green tops. Mass spec showed a high purity. But my hgh serum in a blood test was moderate. It closely resembled the Fisher HGH used as the measuring stick in the mass spectrometer.
Just looking for answers to help me understand how a consumer can test for HGH more efficiently.
He should do a mass spec on some pharma HGH and compare =) It's not all about purity (Beaker was called out on one of the mass spec tests about the product identified being Somatropin, he did not have any idea...), what about total amount present in the vial. It might be 100% pure, but if there is 2IUs when you think the amount is 10IUs, then ..
BigBmajThat's why samples are standardized. So that IU is being tested against IU. A peak can show not only purity but concentration.
If someone were to order a standard from Aldrich chemical company and test against that sample they would know that they had. Quality and quantity. Why isn't anyone doing this?
AnonAnd then again theres fake pharma
Know your source ;)
AnonI do ;) but good advice all around !
beyondimportsReal hgh raises your igf. Personally I think you should look at all values, not one or the other. If your hgh serum is high but igf isn't, what you're using isn't Doing what it should. Gives light to that not bioavailability theory. Or perhaps just peptides. If gh serum is crap but igf up, using some igf or peptides
AnonRight but in order to get elevated igf don't u have to be using the product for a extended period? Also this is more in order to determine if certain products are gtg. So I'm already using Rips which have great mass spec testing and serum testing. So I'm almost positive my IGF would already be high. So really my igf in this scenario would it be a true measuring stick? From where I'm looking it wouldn't signal which product is elevating my igf. How can we best determine whether a product is gtg?
HGH Serum has been the defacto testing protocol I've seen on many sites.
There were some questions posted last year about "Bioavailability" of HGH. From what I have read, Bioavailability I believe is in relation to your body being able to utilize the HGH presented to it. So if you cannot utilize it all based on other factors such as nutrition, I think Liver function, htpa ..... then IGF-1 will be skewed (lower) even with high quality HGH. There are also many factors that can affect IGF-1 levels (Strenuous exercise for 1) LOL ;-P
From the Saizen tests that I've seen Exogenous HGH will peak IGF-1 levels approx 24 hrs after injection.
Regarding a good IGF-1 level, you need to know your base level first to know how much the HGH is increasing your IGF-1. Caretaker has posted some good info on methods of adjusting your HGH intake to maintain target IGF-1 levels. http://www.eroids.com/og/anti-aging/an-example-of-extrapolating-hgh-targ...
As far as fasting that is only in relation to endogenous HGH testing from what I have tested and read.
AnonWhat do u think was the reason for this scenario
http://www.eroids.com/pics/true-quality-control-measures-via-muta-marciano
I replied to that, possibly absorption timing for you due to scar tissue in the delt area from the previous AAS injections in that area?