thinktank's picture
thinktank
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What am I doing wrong?

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I'm 41y/o, 173lb, 19%bf.
Last year my doctor put me on TRT androgel 10g a day (which translates to 10mg/d once absorbed through the skin), my free test levels were below the normal range, where I am the spectrum is 33-90, I was at 25.
The androgel brought my levels to around 70.
I decided to do a newbie cycle of 500mg/w of test e for 10 weeks. Currently I'm at week 6.
I'm lifting 5 days a week and doing 20min of cardio everyday. I'm eating around 1700cal a day. I experimented with eating 2500cal a day and it just made me fat. I eat 5 meals a day 350 around cal each, all protein except for 1/3cup of oats in the morning and 1/2 cup rice at lunch. End of carbs. ( meals are iso prot, EAS MRP, chicken, beef and vegs).
When I started my weight was 173, at week 6 I'm at 181. BF has gone down to around 15%. But my weight increase has completely plateaued.
I work from home, so my only daily movement comes from walking 5 blocks to gym and working out.

Questions 1: Anytime I eat anymore that 2000cal I just get fatter around the middle and chest turns into manboobs. How can I bulk up if my metabolism can't handle so many calories?
Question 2: even though Im right handed, the left side of my body is growing noticeably bigger faster. Chest, shoulder, arm? wtf? Could it be that i used to put the androgel on that side more that the other?, i had guys at the gym check my lifting form, and everything seemed fine...

Thank you in advanced for your friendly advise.

thinktank's picture

Mega and Destrucos, thank you very much for your feedback!
I'm in a country where its very hard to get gear. I got pct but couldn't get any AI. I have no doubt that you're right about needing AI. Question: Could clomid or nolvadex be used as an AI? In theory they are both antiestrogens...

Thanks again guys!!!

MegaT883's picture

Thinktank let me try to explain. There is a functional difference between an anti-aromatase (like Arimidex) and an anti-estrogen (like Nolvadex). Nolvadex blocks the estrogen receptor but does NOT prevent estrogen from forming in the body and Arimidex (as does Aromasin and letro) actually stops excess estrogen from forming (stops aromatization). So Nolva-Clomid are blockers more than stoppers of estrogen formation. Also clomid was never intended as an anti estrogen, it just "acts" like one. The negatives when taken longer term vs short term as in PCT: Nolva and Clomid raise SHBG, raise LDL, lower IGF-1(nolva), and affects mood negatively. Which is counter to what your trying to accomplish.
I don't recommend it. But if that is all you got you can use Nolvadex. Just keep in mind when you stop using it you will have a rebound effect as the estrogen is still there.

MegaT883's picture

Get a blood test your estradiol is to high with no AI get a blood test to confirm. Read what you wrote Anytime I eat anymore thatn 2000cal I just get fatter around the middle and chest turns into manboobs

MegaT883's picture

Destructos you know and I know that at 500 mg of Test a wk which is supraphysiologic doses of testosterone your estradiol is going up no if ands or buts about it. Even more so at 19% BF. Read my post below. And your link is correct more estrogen more SHBG more SHBG more TEST getting bound up which leads to less free Test and an imbalance between free test and estrogen. You can have all the serum Test in the world but it does you no good if it's bound to SHBG. It's free unbound TEST that does all the work period. Another thing what these guys are telling about the calories is correct. But your hormone imbalance needs to be corrected first for it to work.You have TOO MUCH ESTRADIOL in your system.
We can lead you to water Thinktank but we can't make you drink. That's on you.

gatorbits's picture

spend two hundred a week at the grocery store
check the meat sections
and the daily and deli sections

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thinktank's picture

Here's my meal plan:

1 One egg, three eggwhites, 1/3 cup oatmeal, 1 scoop iso prot (35g prot, 150 cal), coffee black.

2 MRP 40g prot, 300 cal

3 pre/post workout shake 3 scoops iso prot, bcaa, creatine

4 beef or chicken with vegs, Half cup of rice

5 MRP

6 chicken with vegs, one scoopr iso prot

that's pretty much it. Usually comes to 1700-1900 cal.

I eat two cheat meals a week, usually pasta and a slice of cake.
Since posting this I've upped my cal intake to 2300 and cut the cardio.

Gator, bro, I asked a question and stated a problem. Not everyone is the same. The name calling is unnecessary adds no value.

Like I said, I appreciate the feedback and am adjusting things around.

gatorbits's picture

you dont eat dude '
its to much iso protein shake

how bout this
8am 1 cup oatmeal (cooked), 2 cups milk and three eggs

11am turkey sandwich 2 cups milk and some fruit

2pm another sandwich or pasta , some meat servings (2) and lots of water with vegetable and some potato source or similar

5pm pre workout small meal of protein and carbs

7pm post workout protein shake and something else with fats and carbs ,
8pm DINNER BIG MEAT and CARB DINNER

11pm last meal maybe yogurt or popcorn, even another sandwich

^ this is just an example of a moderate actually mild bulk diet
you simply do not have enough calories to build muscle at 1900cals
i eat 1900 cal breakfasts

for example
2cups milk
2 yogurts
large bagel cream cheese
5 eggs and three large pancakes
i sometimes put some peanut oil into the milk and its like 2000 cals

then lunch would be like 12oz of roast beef, sliced sirloin or chicken/fish, 12oz plus whatever meat you want and like two cups yellow rice, one cup black beans with some toast garlic bread or something\ 3 cups milk

dinner is another large meat portion with protein enriched pasta and vegetables

then dessert is like brownies and or maybe a bowl of cereal, whatever is 500 cals, and two cups milk

i try to eat smaller meals in between and maybe drink one protein shake per week maybe two ...your drinking multiple per day and not processing it like you do food protein sources

the above works for my purpose
im under 10% BF and bout 180 , 6ft
this may be too much for some as its 4-6000 cals
but last time I checked Im bulking and have to reach my goals so i force myself

the op
doesn't seem to understand calorie surplus

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thinktank's picture

Gator, I appreciate your diet and will try to follow it as much as I can. I think the main issue here is that at 41 the metabolism heavily slows down compared to a 24yo. When I was in my 20s, i ate everything I came in contact with and never got fat.
I'm now up to 2500cal/d (i added pasta for lunch carbs) and its really showing around the belly! I hate it.
I tracking every single meal and cal I aim to find out, what is the max I eat at my age to bulk and not get fat. I;m not 17, wish I was.

RPianaSwole's picture

I'd stay away from the pasta, white rice all day long brother.

gatorbits's picture

Well keep tracking and manipulate your diet and you will reach your goals!
+1

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thinktank's picture

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll bump it up to 2300 cal (even though, it's just going to make me fat) lol. and get bloods done. I'm also not taking any anti estrogens because I've had no sides from the test. But that could also be part of issue.

thanks again.

RPianaSwole's picture

When you say you eat 2300 calories what does your meals consist of? I stay under 10% bf even when bulking and honestly I'm probably at 2300 calories by meal 3 of 7. If you will list examples of your average daily meals I would love to help you out bro.

gatorbits's picture

take my offer below ill make you gain lean mass , with aas or not...its diet and meal planning that you ned
ill tell you how to manipulate the intake by timing certain food with natural hormone production and watch you grow ...if you follow it.
10lbs in 45-60 days , of per lean mass,keeping it because it is food(lean muscle tissues) gains which are the most easily kept gains and what we desire ...
opposed to PED gains(which can be kept to), water(often lost), adipose(who wants that),bone(not gonna happen,gyms dont make you taller)

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gambit's picture

Are you logging your food? a "around 1700" can easily turn into around 2500 or more!

Pers Id start at 2200 with moderate carbs, logging and see how you do. You can get your test levels done through a private lab if youre worried about the quality?

Braxbrah's picture

Im eating 2,000 on a cut. I can't believe you were eating 1,700 + Cardio and expecting to put weight on man lol thats a severe deficit. Eat like a monster and lift big, I can't wait to bulk.

thinktank's picture

I've come to the conclusion that the gear I got from a source here is bunk. Whatever gains Ive made are due to the androgel. Unless I'm missing something. It doesn't make sense that I just get fatter when i eat in excess of 2000cal/d.
I know your advise is to eat more, Believe me I've tried!!!! It just makes me fat in the gut, love handles and pecs!! fuck!! Also, at week six I have zero sides from the test e, no unusual hair growth, ball shrinkage, acne, oily sweat, itchy nips...nothing.
Its gotta be the gear. or WTF?

MegaT883's picture

Gator let me answer this one because I've been seeing this a lot lately. Thinktank your on 500 mg a wk of Test. Your at 19% body fat. You do know when you added that extra Test to your body that a portion of it is converting to estradiol by aromatase enzyme which by the way is plentiful in body fat. Not everyone experiences sides with high estro. If you have high(estradiol) you will experience weight gain(fat). It offsets the effects of testosterone. It is the reason why women carry more body fat than men. They have higher estrogen levels. I bet a dollar that if you got a blood test it would show your estadiol is high. I can almost guarantee it. How do you know if that gear isn't working. How do you know if your dialed in? If there's one thing I have learned thru the years is that everyones body chemistry is different. I'll answer those questions for you. You don't know, you can't just go by feel. You really want to know whats going on get a blood test. But again I think your problem is your estradiol is to high and until you get it in check your spinning your wheels. It really comes down to simple body chemistry, no AI and that testosterone is being converted to estradiol and that's a fact.
http://www.eroids.com/pics/updatedlab-reports-102-testosterone-how-to-pr...

gatorbits's picture

oh really its not the 1700 calorie per day diet it the oils being bunk
interesting concept of self neglect of the real problem
your girly lil Cinderella diet and training Regime
"if 2300 cals makes you fat"
then your doing it all wrong dude
im about 9-10% bf and 177-180 at 6ft tall
i eat 4-6000 cals per day and train every other day for 1hr and 15 mins
and sleep and dont drink alcohol
so what am i doing so different than you, and us i understand people bodies metabolisms are different i work with health related clients daily
but what im saying is please get real
learn from eroids and other sources about diet and nutrition
PM me and lets discuss your goals and concepts
might seem like im coming off hard but its because im mad about the situation your in bc i can understand it and the problem is obvious to me and ill help you right the wrong so to say
if you care too that is

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RaginCajun84's picture

Get bloodwork done to be sure, but it's possible.

MegaT883's picture

Exactly

gatorbits's picture

Look at my post in general talk
"The basics; quick read"
http://www.eroids.com/forum/general/general-talk/the-basics-quick-read

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gatorbits's picture

1700 cals is your issue
I'm 177lbs and my maintainance is 3k
And bulk diet is 5000 per day
Eat more dude
1700 cals is a girls cardio weight loss diet
Get real bro bro you need to eat and if your eating and training hard an getting fat
Then train harder!

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gatorbits's picture

Nice heavy weights, and slow burn, agonizing sets focusing on form and sheer weight over reps and speed. Maybe cut out the cardio altogether for a week or two and see how that goes for you. I eat like a horse and skip cardio

^
agreed

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RaginCajun84's picture

Man if your killing it in the gym you shouldn't be putting on any fat at 2000 cals unless they are coming from shit....my answer to question 1 would be to take another long hard look at diet and training because something isn't adding up. Question 2, I have the same damn problem and don't use the gel so if you find out please let me know lol I'm trying to get more symmetrical as wel.

Zeus5555's picture

Also I wouldn't worry to much if you put on some fat while your cycling unless your purposely trying to cut which isn't recommended for a first cycle... Just worry about eating and eating some more and packing on the muscle.

Zeus5555's picture

Make sure you are getting at least a gallon of water a day....I notice immediate bloating when consuming higher cals if I don't get all my water... Especially on a cycle

ninjuh37's picture

Are you on an anti estrogen? If not, high estrogen directly translates to more fat gained.

scrotie mcboogerballs's picture

you can't grow at all with just 1700 cal a day. check your macros, make sure all your calories are good calories