posted Fri, 10/12/2012 - 01:16
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+ 1 Intermittent Fasting
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Is it okay to fast twice a week for 24 hrs each time while on a cycle or is it a waste?
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Is it okay to fast twice a week for 24 hrs each time while on a cycle or is it a waste?
Area-1255So yeah, its not a waste.
Area-1255And oddly I've done the whole skip Morning and Afternoon meals and discovered it by HABIT how beneficial it was, before I even read the studies on it I was doing this shit. When I saw the studies it rang, yup this is why I had such massive energy and gains on those times!
Area-1255You don't need to do it for 24hrs bro, just Morning --> Night time then down some big ass meals with tons of Protein at around 8 or 9. You could even do that a few times a week without any problems. I've done it and liked the results personally.
I have been doing a version of IF for about 9 months, including carrying it over to my first time on a cycle in 20 years. It is the one outlined by Martin Berkhan on his leangains.com website.
I love it. I fast 15-16 hours a day and then eat all of my calories in an 8-9 hour window. On training days I eat 20% above maintenance before I started my cycle, and now I'm eating 30% above maintenance on training days. On non-training days I ate 10% below before my cycle and now I'm eating at maintenance on non-training days.
The concept is that all the health benefits (insulin sensitivity, anti-inflammatory effects, etc) are available during a 16 hour fast as much as a 24 hour fast, but it is WAY better for bodybuilders/ athletes. During the last few hours of the fast you're burning fat as fuel. It is increased significantly with low-intensity cardio, like walking, but you don't want to do any hard cardio, as it would be catabolic for muscle.
He also advocates for training before eating, but after ingesting 10g of BCAA's, if you can make it work with your schedule. I was incredulous at fist, because all of the BB conventional wisdom screams that this is a bad idea, but I can tell you it makes a difference in leaning out without sacrificing muscle.
About 50% of calories should be ingested at the immediate post-workout meal, or the first meal if a non-training day. On workout days the carbs are higher and on non-workout days the fat calories are higher. I usually eat 50-75g carbs on rest days.
I actually dropped a couple of pounds of body fat and kept my weight fairly constant while on it before my cycle (except for a month when I was out in the middle of nowhere doing fieldwork and couldn't get enough food, but that is an aside). I've never successfully gained muscle and lost fat at the same time before, so this was a noticeable difference for me.
Plus, after 25 years of 6 meals a day, I can't tell you guys how much extra time I have not eating so much. Or preparing so many meals. Or lugging around a bunch of meals everywhere I go. You can have as many or as few meals as you prefer on this system, as long as you get all your calories in an 8-9 hour window (or 10 hours for women, according to MB).
He actually has a lot of research on his site to combat the conventional wisdom about BB and eating, like "Only so much protein can be processed at a single meal" or "eating is thermogenic and more meals equal more thermogenesis" and "if you don't eat every three hours you'll lose muscle." Before you flame the concept, check out the science. It is pretty solid. And I'm a medical professional, and reading scientific papers is part of my job, so I can tell you it is very compelling stuff.
Anyway, if you are interested in IF and BB, check out his site. Also, there is a pretty good IF calculator online that will let you plug in all your statistics and personalize several goal, body comp and nutritional guidelines that I have really benefitted from using:
http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/
All this being said, I've had good success pre-cycle on this plan. I've made some changes after starting a Test E/ Equipoise cycle, but so far so good. I'll post an update as things unfold in relation to the IF and cycling.
As always, comments, suggestions and critiques are welcome.
TD
ClassyChassisI agree with most of this, but I disagree that hard cardio is catabolic to muscle, in a fasted state at least. If you had insulin present, then yes, once you depleted glycogen. Insulin inhibits the l- carnitine chain, which is necessary for the mobilization of free fatty acids for fuel. In the absence of insulin you should be in fat burning mode right away. Also, look at sprinters. They go hard, yet they are lean and muscular. Whereas marathoners (low intensity) look like concentration camp survivors.
I know this is an olf post, but yiur response here is perfect! Ive been on IF for 5 montjs and really like my results. I also feel great! Im starting a test E amd npp cycle in 2 weeks and will coninue on IF.
ClassyChassisI agree with a lot of this. I eat at 11:00 AM, 2:00 PM, 5:00 PM, 8:00 PM. Around 100g protein each meal(on blast, 60g on trt)10g fat, and the carbs vary depending on what, or if, I'm training.
I do fasted cardio in the morning. 15 minutes incline treadmill hard as I can go (after 5 minutes warm-up)followed by 15 minutes stairs as hard as I can go, followed by stationary bike 15 minutes as hard as I can go, followed by 10 minutes cool down. I got this style from John Parrillo. Presumably the demands of this type of cardio increases capillary beds and number of mitochondria. Of course you have to build up to it.
This style of cardio and eating combines to make you very healthy and fit, as well as lean and muscular. If I was trying to gain considerable weight on cycle I'd increase the protein up to 150g per meal. You'd be surprised how much protein your body can utilize at once on AAS, especially training hard. Of course, the official stance is that a 300+ lb bodybuilder on juice can only utilize 30g protein per sitting. Lmao...
Can you explain to me why you do this bro? I'm interested in the goals you aim to achieve
Its a waste on cycle.
But make sure your twice a week is split up equally and do eat below mantinece the day after your fast and mantinece the day after that. Be smart about it because its really easy to get fat if your not.
I'm really surprised no one is talking about Keifer's Carb-backloading around here. I would never fast for an entire 24 hours or longer, but I do fast for longer everyday. Currently, I don't really even eat breakfast. Lots of coffee, MCT and fish oil for the first few hours of my morning, then no carbs at all until after training, late afternoon, early evening, and then dump tons of "junk" high glycemic carbs up until about an hour before bed, and no carbs at all on non-training days. It promotes fat loss during resting hours, and insulin spikes after training, and low insulin levels during sleep to increase natural GH production. I've dropped body fat like a sack of bricks over the last 1.5 months, and strength is increasing, granted I am on cycle
shitty idea... just remove carbs towards the end of the day.
Well, hopefully in another 6 week's or sooner, ill be in single digits for bf % and then it won't seem shity. Lol
there are better ways to lose fat then fasting. fasting will put your body into a fat storing mode very quickly. also you are more likely to binge coming off of it.
this is what i do to lose weight and it may help you.
eat 7 high protein meals every day. eat complex carbs in the first two meals and then stick with meat(or protein sup) and veggies for the rest of the day. i do 30-35 sets each workout to failure, keeping my workout under an hour. and i will run 2miles/15 minutes every day.
Being doing Intermittent fasting for about 3 weeks, instead of doing it like you, i eat from 11am to 7pm then stay 16 hours without any food. Is working good so far. And i'm eating 50% clean. Note: I'm off cycle and i would personally not try this while on cycle.
I'm on a recomp cycle and wouldn't fast if bulking...lol
Try not eating ANY carbs after 2pm instead if you want to drop BF. Fasting for long periods will make your body catabolic, not a scenario someone trying to increase muscle tissue wants to enter.
I started doing this too.
Why would you want to fast???
Dropping body fat %, bro.
not eating will actually slow down your metabolism bec your body will not know when its next meal is coming .. eat 6 small meals a day to speed up your metabolism with cardio.. alot better way to lose bf
not till 60 hrs of fasting. increased catecholamine output actually boosts metabolism till then.
Nair, KS, et al. "Leucine, glucose, and energy metabolism after 3 days of fasting in healthy human subjects." Am J Clin Nutr. 1987.
Mansell, PI, et al. "Enhanced thermogenic response to epinephrine after 48-h starvation in humans." Am J Physiol. 1990
Number of meals doesn't affect metabolic rate. Thermic effect of food (~10% of caloric intake for an average diet, maybe up to 15% for a high protein diet) is dependent on calories. Here's one comparing isocaloric intake of 3 meals a day vs 6.
Cameron, JD, et al. "Increased meal frequency does not promote greater weight loss in subjects who were prescribed an 8-week equi-energetic energy-restricted diet." Br J Nutr. 2010
The metabolic slowdown myth is from 70s studies on rodent metabolic regulation, which has very little to do with human.
I already do this.
Easier ways to drop bf ,without fasting bro ,id imagine muscle loss as well as fat :/ and fuck i hate bein hungry
Well, its been about 18 hours and I feel fine. I took an emergen-c packet first thing this morning.
have you tried any carb manipulation diets ? They are a great way to melt fat without starving the body '
I'm doing the no carbs after 2 pm, right now.
im sure if you keep it strict and your protein high you will get the results your looking for ' i find these the best way to go ' if you could throw in some early mornin cardio on an empty stomach ' you will melt that fat away '
Yeah, I do the early morning cardio, on days I'm off work and the weeks I work afternoons.
if your willing to starve a couple times a week ' you could limit your carbs to just your first meal of the day and see where that gets you ?
LOL...I'm not laughing at you, but It's funny because I've done this too. As a matter of fact, I usually get my carbs in by my first or second meals; however, other days I try and spread them out to say 2pm.
and is this not working for you ?
It's working but I felt like I wanted more. My job isn't physically demanding. I literally sit for 8 hours and sometimes 16 hrs a day. The only exercise I get is walking to and from my job site.
no bro i didnt think you were laughing
for me its just carbs first meal and protein rest of the day ' but this really works well with me '
I ive it twice by accident this week lol eaten in morning but fell asleep back from work at lunch time n didnt eat ret of the day.
But no idea on how it turns out...
Yeah, I did the same thing. I fell asleep after work yestetday and got up around 7:30pm and decided to go with it. Now, I'm gonnatry it twice a week. LOL.