posted Wed, 09/12/2012 - 03:18
14818
Test -E cycle 20-25% % BF - Anyone tried?
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Hi All,
I know there is a greater risk of side effects to any AAS cycle the higher your bodyfat is. I know the risks and I am probably going to cut until I am around 15% before I start, however I am curious as to whether anyone here has done a simple test-e cycle between 20-25% bodyfat? If so, how successful was it in reducing fat and gaining LBM?
I am not so worried about blood pressure, its more the risk of gyno that is making me wait until a much lower %
Any comments will be welcomed..
Before anyone says " diet and cardio for cutting", I am already focused on this, but I can tell im losing a small amount of strength and LBM on my cut, I want more of a recomp effect.
Thanks a lot!
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! K IM REALLY DONE READING THESE DUMB ASS PARAGRAPHS BY WASHBOARD_ABS. WASHBOARD IF U CANT CONTROL UR EATING HABITS AND U PREFER TO STARVE URSELF, THATS FINE, UR A FUCKING IDIOT AND PERSUADING U TO DO OTHER WISE IS A WASTE OF TIME BUT FUKING RECOMMENDING IT TO OTHER PEOPLE IS WHAT GET ME OFF. ITS CALLED BODY BUILDING NOT BODY STARVING. SO LISTEN HERE, ANY FUCKING IDIOT THINKING ABOUT STARVING THEMSELVES IS PUTTING THEMSELVES IN SERIOUS RISK. RISK OF BEING VITAMINS & CALCIUM DEFICIENT WHICH CAN LEAD TO SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS/INJURIES LATER ON OR IN SPORTS. RISKS OF GALLSTONES , THATS RIGHT THEY MIGHT HAVE TO SURGICALLY REMOVE UR DICK, RISKS OF FATIGUE, PASSING OUT, Cardiovascular PROBLEMS, SLOWING DOWN WEIGHT LOSS, INCREASING MUSCLES LOSS, DECREASING BONE DENSITY, RISKS OF HEART DISEASE, DIABETES, AND EVEN CANCER, WEAKENING IN IMMUNE SYSTEM, THAT MEANS THAT U CANT FIGHT DISEASES OR INFLAMMATION AND EVEN SUDDEN DEATH.
WHY A STARVATION DIET NEVER WORKS?
BECAUSE BY DECREASING CALORIES, U DECREASE UR METABOLIC RATE, MEANING UR BODY IS JUST GOING TO ADAPT TO THE 400 CAL DIET. WHICH MEANS U LL EXPERIENCE VERY LITTLE FAT LOSS , INFACT THE ONLY WIEGHT U LL LOSE IS MUSCLES. THEN WHEN U START EATING NORMAL AGAIN, UR BODY WILL STORE ALOT MORE FAT BECUASE ITS IN SURVIVAL MODE AND THE METABOLIC RATE IS STILL LOW. U CATCHING BROS. THERE IS NO POINT, U LL GAIN EVERYTHING BACK AND MORE.
IM BY FAR THE NOT MOST EXPERIENCE HERE IN TERMS OF AAS USE BUT WHEN IT COMES TO NUTRITION I GOT MY SHIT DOWN. SO ALL U PUSSIES WHO ARE RECOMMENDING OR ON A STARVATION DIET, I RECOMMEND U GET UR FATASSES ON THE TREAD MILL AND EAT 6 MEALS A DAY. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR NOT WORKING OUT HARD ENOUGH, PEOPLE IN FUCKING WHEEL CHAIRS WOULD LOVE HAVE UR BODIES, SO FIND BETTER WAYS TO DROP THE ESTROGEN LEVELS....IM DONE... FUCKING RIDICULOUS
Muscleg33kActually I knew someone that that had really high BF got trimmed down to 13% BF from taking tren in 12 weeks. However I do not recommend anybody taking Tren until 10th cycle.
cool story bro...
I think we should move this back up to the top.
You might consider the starvation diet Bro. Basic math tells you that starvation, at 400 calories a day will result in weight loss. It works, and, as counter-intuitive as this sounds, IT IS EASIER in terms of discipline than most other diets.
A couple of years ago I had 20-25% bf. I lost 35+ pounds in 3 months. I starved. No breakfast, no lunch, no dinner. I ate a few cans of corn (no butter), and maybe a small bowl of rice a day. I'd say I was doing about 400 calories a day during the first month.
It wasn't difficult. The first couple of days were hard. The hunger pangs and cravings were torturous. However, you get into "the zone" after the first week, and it becomes EASY. It was easy in the sense that, once you get into the zone-- the starvation mode, you no longer have cravings. Personally, I couldn't handle traditional diets because a few bites would lead to a few more, and more, and next thing I know, I've just slipped and have gone on an all-out binge. There's no chance of binging when you've made the decision to starve, and you've cleared out your refrigerator.
I let up on the starvation when I hit 2 percent bodyfat. As an aside, I’m now the same weight I was when I was 20-25% percent bf. However, I'm only 5-6% bf.
So my 2 cent recommendation to you: cut the complications. Starve for 2 or 3 months and lose a massive amount of fat and muscle. Then blast yourself with a well-designed steroid cycle, start eating again, and rebuild the lost muscle, as well as add new/additional muscle mass.
Btw, please fill out your stats on your profile bro.
I'll retract the part about recommending it to the OP. It is not for everyone. There are plenty of ways to lose fat, and it appears that mine isn't very popular :).
However, it is undeniable that it worked for me. In summary, the principle is you lose a massive amount of fat (and some muscle) in a short period of time because you don't want to languish over a prolonged diet for a year. Then you jumpstart your metabolism with a well-timed and well-designed steroid cycle. Of course my metabolism slowed down during the 3 months, and of course friends and family were telling me I'd gain it all back. What they didn't know, was that I'd start my metabolism right up with a steroid cycle. People are amazed that years later, I kept the weight off and gained over 30 pounds of muscle.
Additionally, I know this an anonymous forum and so it is easy to get nasty, but I would urge brothers to remain civil. Comparing it to a meth binge is not fair, and it gives the impression that you're going after my intelligence in a personal level. Throughout the 3 months, I maintained a healthy variety of vitamins, nutrients, and liquids. "Starvation," pardon the expression, meant limitation of calories, not limitation of nutrition. I also ran 4 miles a day throughout the ordeal. I'm a young healthy guy-- mentally, physically, and professionally. If you knew me personally, you'd know that I'm not the type of guy who takes silly risks with any project I undertake.
Look at a low carb diet compared to a low calorie diet. Lets get this out 1st. Protein builds everything in your body. Carbs and fats provide energy.If the carbs that are taken in are not used then they are stored as fat. So lets take a 200 pound man.If he went on a low cal diet like you said 400 calories he would not receive the protein he needed to restore not only muscle but everything in the body.His metabolism would drop. He could lose hair,age faster, and feel like shit.Try working out with no food. If he was to go on a low carb high protein diet say 50 grams of carbs(carbs split between morning and right after workout) and 400 grams of protein. He would have to ability to rebuild and have energy so he would not feel like shit.The 1st couple of weeks he might feel bad from sugar withdrawal but that goes away.Even the leanest of meats have fats so there would be extra energy from that. So how many calories will it take to achieve this giant amount of protein? Carbs are 4 calories pr gram so 50 grams of carbs would =200 calories.Lets take a lean meat like shrimp.Boiled not fried. Shrimp has around 4 1/2 calories pr gram of protein.So we have 200 calories from carbs and 1800 from protein and fat. So 2000 calories total to achieve this. 2000 calories is still low but the carbs will be all used up quickly and none will be stored as fat. You will be able to gain muscle and lose fat at a very fast rate, you're metabolism will go through the roof and you will not sacrifice muscle or your health. As fat as wanting to binge eat. Try eating all that protein a little while. The last thing you will care about is what you get to eat next.
Wow! I was hopin I missed something but I read it over. No, he said it like it looks
cdaddy7OOOOOhhhfffff bro WOW
WOW! Sorry but wow! I don't know what else to say
Ive been doing wrong like forever according to this bullshit... every paragraph just gets worse and worse... gotta leave now to bang my fucking head into the wall!
Try doing 45 minutes on a stair stepper a day for cardio.The stair stepper is a calorie burning MOFO. Also drop you're carbs to 50 grams pr day and eat them early in day. Throughout the day if your sitting down a lot try to stand up every 30 minutes and do something.Eat lean meat and eat it often. I would figure out what you should weight with a say 10% body fat and then eat 2grams of protein pr pound pr day. Spread out every couple hours with no more than 60 grams of protein pr meal.Wake up in the morning and do a little workout that involves quick burst of energy.
cdaddy7Great info Finafan!!!
e92at 20-25% BF my main concern would be losing fat, not gaining muscle....
easy way to lose fat is to gain muscle.
tread-mChicken or the egg. Easiest way to do either is to do both....whaaaaat!
well the egg came 1st.
tread-mWhere did it come from? : )
It came from the chicken. But where did the chicken come from?
So we have to eat God? Probably high in protein.
Well I hope god is a good looking woman.
Lol
You might consider the starvation diet Bro. Basic math tells you that starvation, at 400 calories a day will result in weight loss. It works, and, as counter-intuitive as this sounds, IT IS EASIER in terms of discipline than most other diets.
A couple of years ago I had 20-25% bf. I lost 35+ pounds in 3 months. I starved. No breakfast, no lunch, no dinner. I ate a few cans of corn (no butter), and maybe a small bowl of rice a day. I'd say I was doing about 400 calories a day during the first month.
It wasn't difficult. The first couple of days were hard. The hunger pangs and cravings were torturous. However, you get into "the zone" after the first week, and it becomes EASY. It was easy in the sense that, once you get into the zone-- the starvation mode, you no longer have cravings. Personally, I couldn't handle traditional diets because a few bites would lead to a few more, and more, and next thing I know, I've just slipped and have gone on an all-out binge. There's no chance of binging when you've made the decision to starve, and you've cleared out your refrigerator.
I let up on the starvation when I hit 2 percent bodyfat. As an aside, I’m now the same weight I was when I was 20-25% percent bf. However, I'm only 5-6% bf.
So my 2 cent recommendation to you: cut the complications. Starve for 2 or 3 months and lose a massive amount of fat and muscle. Then blast yourself with a well-designed steroid cycle, start eating again, and rebuild the lost muscle, as well as add new/additional muscle mass.
Btw, please fill out your stats on your profile bro.
Seriously, this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I can't believe you would suggest this fucked up shit to someone. Your theory is STUPID!! I don't call ppl names and get all Internet nasty in here but wtf man? The guy wants to lose weight (bf). The way to do that is to increase the amount of meals you take in and clean them
Up. The more often you eat, the faster your body burns excess calories. If you eat one giant meal a day, your body adapts to this and stores everything you take in as fat reserves Because it knows your ass ain't feedin it right. This will make you feel like shit on top of it. The safe way to lose body fat is eating 5-6 small, healthy, protein and complex carb rich meals. It will turn your body into a furness and send it into overdrive. The training and diet will get him where he wants to be. Why don you just tell him to go see Tito on the avenue and buy a few dime bags of fuckin rock? He'll lose weight that way too. Smh! starve yourself?
What is wrong with you? You don't have to starve yourself. I lost 30lbs in 2 months and was eating over 3000 calories a day. I went from 235 to 204. Limit carbs to less than 50 grams a day, only morning. Eat a ton of chicken and drink protein shakes as between meals. Cardio and high reps in the gym. It's called HEALTHY.
Sounds like atkins. No carbs is exhausting bro. I tried Atkins and gave up because I hard time climbing a flight of stairs without getting lactic acid buildup.
I was running 4 miles a day throughout the 3 months and I was taking plenty of supplements, vitamins, and liquids. "Starvation" meant limitation of calories, not limitation of nutrients. There were days where I'd run 4 miles in the evening without breakfast, lunch, or dinner preceding the run. Among other things, it did wonders for my self esteem. This was remarkably different from a meth addict wasting away.
LOL NOOO DONT STARVE UR SELF, ITS THE WORSE THING U CAN DO, DO IT THE HEALTHY WAY. SURE STARVING UR SELF WILL MAKE U APPEAR SMALLER BUT U WILL GAIN ALL THE WIEGHT BACK ONCE U RETURN TO NORMAL HABIT. WHY TAKE IN 400-200 CAL A DAY, WHEN U CAN EAT 6 TIMES A DAY , 3HOURS APART AND EAT 1800 CAL A DAY AND STILL LOSE WIEGHT . TRY IT , IT WORKS , EVERYONE DOES IT AND IT WORKS BUT PLEASE DONT STARVE UR SELF.
Most bros, including my self, do not have the discipline to eat 6 times a day without getting out of control and allowing one of those 6 times to snowball into an allout binge. That's why I said it was "easier" to simply starve, which causes you to lose appetite. In addition, you're not around food like you are when you eat 6 to 10 small meals a day.
Anyway, starving is not a popular thing to do or say. Most friends and family tried to teach me that I would slow my metabolism and that I would gain the fat right back. However, I had known and had been reading that theory since I was in middle school. What they didn't know was that I'd start my metabolism right up with a well-timed cycle. That part had them scratching their heads. They'd say: "Hmm, its amazing that guy kept the weight off for years and built muscle."
You may not have the discipline to eat 6 times a day but why starve yourself instead of eating fewer meals that will allow you to SAFELY loose 1 lb per week of FAT and not muscle?
By starving you weaken your immune system, lower your metabolic rate, decrease mental function, and increase chronic fatigue and risk bringing on depression. not to mention you loose muscle with the fat.
You could have safely lost 15-20% fat in 6 to 10 months (e.g. 200 lb man)--Only 3 months longer than your starvation diet. Not counting the extra months needed to regain your muscle.
cdaddy7Read this
http://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/weight-loss/nurition...
Sure consider that if you want to make your metabolism go to shit. If you drop to 400 calories you're body will bring your metabolism to that level. To do this it will deplete muscle because it takes more calories to keep muscle than fat.So the easiest thing your body can do is get rid of it.So your body adapts to that caloric intake so after you decided to get off this great diet your body only needs 400 calories and you eat 1500 you will get fat again.Yo Yo
You start your steroid cycle right after the starvation diet, thereby jump-starting your metabolism. It worked for me.
During and after the diet, everyone was telling me I'd gain all the weight back in no time. They were quietly thinking that within a few months, they'd all be saying "I told you so." However, it has been 3 years and throughout, I had never gone over 10% bf. I eventually "gained the weight back" but not like they said. I gained 25-30 pounds of muscle and I'm now lingering around 5-6%.
Well I'm glad it worked for you and you didn't have any serious problems. Something is obviously working if you are around 6% bf. BUT, to me, it's like telling someone they can lose a lot of weight by doing crack. Yeah, you will prob lose weigh and you might not have any "major" side effects, but not everyone is going to be as lucky as you by starving themselves.
I was thinking meth myself. couple of oz cut up in 60 piles one pile a day. The reason meth heads look like shit is nutrition. They do not eat. They age over days not years. I know a girl that went on a starvation diet for a few months. She lost a ton of weight but she looked like shit and she shit blood. Doctor told her she had to eat or she was going to die.
Question: At what percentage bodyfat does it become difficult or impossible to reach muscles with a 1.5" needle?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but at 20% to 25% bodyfat, wouldn't it be difficult for a 1.5" needle to reach the gluteus maximus? I suppose you could use a 2 inch needle (which I've never seen), but then you'd be "fishing" for the muscle because you're going so deep.
As a general matter, how do obese patients get intramuscular shots?
cdaddy7In the med field, the 1.5 needle is plenty long enough to penetrate and deliver the med into the blood stream...the reason u want it in the muscles is bc there is plenty of bloodflow through the muscle fibers to deliver the med more efficiently into the bloodstream. However, in large ppl more adipose tissue to get through so the med usually ends up in the adipose and it takes much longer to get delivered into the bloodstream bc the fat tissue is way less vascular than muscle tissue. So u don't get as much into the bloodstream and the rest gets metabolized so u don't get the full mgs, hence, the reason that higher mgs are used in obese ppl.....in the realm of steroids, obesity is not something to mix with gear most obese ppl have more than just being fat wrong, usually have diabetes, heart and kidney problems just to name a few....you throw gear in that the risk factors become very deadly....thats y we tell them to cardio and diet/nutrition before gear always
Wow, very interesting and educational. You're a hell of a resource bro. Thanks.
My BF was around 20-25% when I did my first cycle. -but I was 52 years old at the time and that probably factors a lot into the equation.
I had strength gains and passed through a "plateau". I saw faster fat loss doing the same routine (I'm currently at 13.4% BF). I must have had muscle gain but did not "see" much in tone or size increase at that time.
As a side note: If anyone gets a chance to do the "Hydro-static Body Fat Testing" They should do it. My gym just had a mobile unit come to the gym, cheap (under $50) and well worth it.
Honestly i had a buddie who had a high bf % like that and he ran a 12 week prop cycle and the last 4 weeks he was takin clen and wow he dropped to about 15% bf maybe 14%,,, but i mean he was busting his ass with a strict diet, resting enough, an doing cardio twice a day 45min each from day one, and he gained kept some good lean body mass, he had his estro on check and all that too, ran pct 3 days after and he was fine..... After 2 months off of aas he droped to about 12%bf and he decided to run a 12 week test C,prop kicker and taper cycle and hes blowing the fuck up with good solid lean mucscle...but everbody is different bro so thats y u should go get bloods done and check ur estro levels and at LEAST stay on a strict diet for 30 days then start from there...good luck to ya.
tread-mI see all the responces below and agree with all outside of one exception. I seriously doubt this applies to you but in case some of the middle age guys stumble on this I'll say this.. i have had great success with guys who are trt candidates with high BF beginning test cycles. The reason for that is we have an individual often who is under 300 on test, likely high estro with high shbg robbing what little test there is and to try and tell an individual he has tol work 5 times as hard as the 25 yr old to lose weight and do that with 1/10th the energy is neither practical or healthy IMO. In this scenerio we go back to cause and effect. The cause for the decline in health was likely an effect for the originalcause which was the decline in test. In that scenerio we would send him for bloods and if estro is high I would work with him to decrease that rather rapidly .Then once estro is in check we begin low dose test to bring him back to a level playing filed, boost energy and speed metabolic rate so that he may begin the hard work in the gym and in the kitchen with the carb deficits etc. As the body fat drops later we can roll into a cycle with better numbers.
Now let me touch on you specifically in addition to the below. My first plan of action is to hit this like a ton of bricks in the kitchen and gym and sit down and have a very conscious decision conversation with yourself. that conversation has to include you makng the decision that all options that would take from this commitment are being removed from your life. If you leave any options on the table that allow you to skip gym or blow up carbs in what was supposed to be a carb free meal, you will use those options.
First thing I would like to see is your current bloods. I have seen more and more blood issues in the younger guys and my biggest concern today is estro. If estro is high there is no reason you can't run a low dose AI protocol outside the cycle. If high it is kicking your goals ass at every turn. Correcting that "if" an issue will work in your favor. So once you know bloods are good and the metabolic rate is there and estro is fine then I think you foucs on getting this done in very short order as opposed to drag this miserable shit out for another yr. Lets get you right brother, more importantly, lets keep you right once you get there. It is much easier to prevent than to fight this shit up and down from now on.
Get bloods and a physical brother so you can plan your work and work your plan.
Thank you and thank you all for some really good replies.
I am going to do as you recommend and get my blood work done, my only concern is I am currently using a natural test booster. Should I come off this first then if so how long do I wait before getting them done?
I am smashing up cardio, I do 45 minutes a day at least as well as having 100g max carbs atm, I am going to try and limit those to before 6pm and then pure protein. I am going to start playing squash( HIIT like tennis) in the mornings so it'll be two sessions of cardio per day soon. Can't wait.
tread-mJust come off your boosters a couple days before bloods. +3 for taking the time to discuss with your Eroids brothers and be open minded along the way.
Thank you, been a very constructive thread actually which is great to see on any forum and somewhat rare these days. I am definitely 100% focused on diet, cardio and maintaining a 3/4 day lifting schedule until at least christmas. Within that time I should be able to drop to the mid-teens in BF. I hope to contribute and learn about other safe cycles in the meantime just for knowledge.
Damn brother.. Another amazing post. Good stuff!
Not the best of advise and I'm not recommending it by any means but 2 years ago I was on the same boat and used test prop and lost a good amount of weight, of course my diet was good and it's true you have to get leaner before a cycle but I lost like 40 lbs without getting a bunch of loose skin and keeping lbm. But you should listen to these guys they know their shit
cdaddy7Info and cutting diet included:
http://www.eroids.com/forum/training-nutrition-diet/weight-loss/nurition...
THAT'S what I'm talking about daddy-o!
cdaddy7Thanks hllwdbdby, i believe a lot can b accomplished through proper diet/nutrition and training....the gear simply enhances the results, not create them.....a lot of ppl just don't understand that. It took many years too find that out...oh the gear I wasted if I would have just known.....even had a site like this to come to......they just don't know how good they got it, H...
That's exactly what he needs! Good shit Cdaddy
cdaddy7Thanks Nitti thats the purpose of those posts and compilations...they explain everything so we do exhaust ourselves writing the same stuff over and over but can have more time to work with others that need our help. I call it workn smart, not hard!!! ;)
I appreciate the effort to help, I have read this a few days ago and havent been successfully losing weight for the last 9 months, the only problem is that I am also losing muscle which seems to be inevitable on a cut, my thought process is would AAS maintain or even build on a cut while demolishing fat. I was also interested in anyone who had run a cycle with a similar bodyfat and also info from other people regarding the risks. It does seem however that i simply have to be patient, keep doing what I am doing and when I get low enough then start to build.