Super bloated on EQ
I'm on week 10 of an EQ cycle that goes like this:
weeks 1 - 14: 600mg EQ
weeks 1 - 14: 400mg Test-c.
Dbol 4 weeks on, 4 off at 40mg per day.
Adex at 0.25 mg EOD.
I also try to do cardio two or three times per week (upping it to every day I train now). Started doing 45 min but lowered it to 30.
It's my second cycle and I'm doing it for body recomposition purposes.
The problem is that I'm holding water in massive amounts and also in a way that's very evident and visible.
My first cycle was Test-e and Dbol and I knew I was holding water because my face and neck and entire body to some extent got that look of being swollen and about to explode. Also, my blood pressure was elevated.
This time around with the EQ what's happening is that from the neck down and starting pretty early in the cycle I developed very visible deposits of water in my body: I can see them in my biceps, thighs and belly. It's not even water that's inside the muscle, but right under the skin.
So there's this, but there's also the fact that all of the existing fat in my body is migrating towards my abs area. This situation I'm having with my abs is making me second guess this cycle and wonder if I'm doing something wrong or if it's normal.
Did you guys go through the same in your first cycles?
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Hi again, guys.
First of all, thanks to everyone for their help and since the consensuous seemed to be that my estrogen could be too high, what I did was raise my Adex dose to 0.5mg a day (previously it was 0.5 EOD) and use some Proviron that I had lying around at 50mg per day. I know I said I would get some bloodwork done, but thought better about it and since I'm on a budget I thought I could do without it.
The results have been immediate: can't say I look cut now (it's been just 4 days on this regime and I'm not trying to cut anyway) but the bloat is gone almost from day one , I feel much better and more like I'm on cycle (which is something I've been missing all this time) and workouts are MUCH better now.
I've been toying with the idea to include some source of DHT in all of my cycles and I think this is the reaffirmation that I needed. I only have Proviron for a couple more days and boy, am I going to miss it...
Glad to hear!
dbolzGlad that you got the bloat under control. Unless you are bald i wouldn't add any dht on every run. Proviron/masteron are very hard on your hairline and you develop a tolerance too them if you run the long enough. Also DHT aggression is much more dangerous than estrogen aggression, estrogen aggression you sulk and you keep it to your self, DHT aggression you take it out on others. Also after using proviron\masteron for a while you will want to be more violent in bed, DHT fucks as i call them are much more violent that say when on testosterone. I have told you before that you should switch on aromasin (one of your pct threads) imo you are a candidate for aromasin you are wasting your time with arimidex. Dont add other compounds unless you really need them they all come with sides. You will find also that proviron provides short term relief more than anything and you can get addicted to its sexual effects. You dont want to end up like something is missing when you cease use do you?
If you switch to aromasin you wont have any bloat neither you will need extra DHT compounds to control the bloat. Its the adex thats your problem. Glad that you are seeing the eq gains at last.
The immediate affects you noticed water wise is from upping your adex not the proviron.
I was under the impression that DHT either affected your hair or not depending on your genetics. I have a full head of hair and pray everyday that I can keep it despite the steroids; that would be my number one reason to be afraid of DHT.
Regarding Aromasin, I haven't switched to it because it seems to me that it's not that widely available or discussed and the sides you mentioned yourself, like keeping you from producing estrogen at all in the future, didn't make it look like it was that safe either. I don't want to go overboard with the Arimidex either since it raises blood pressure in the eye and I'm starting to feel it sooner everytime how it affects my sight.
For the moment, a combined approach with Adex and Proviron looks like a valid solution. I'll look into Aromasin though, since you think it could be better in my case but I'm not gonna lie: I've been reading lately about the benefits of adding Masteron to all cycles and it sounds tempting because DHT makes me feel so good!
dbolzYou wont have any issues with aromasin if you run it for your cycles/pct only. If you were to run it year round then you might end up not beeing able to produce as much estrogen as you normally would which is not a bad thing. Genetics or not you are taking a gamble if you run proviron on every cycle. Run it for one cycle and you will know by the end of it if its affecting you or not. Look out for things like itching/burning scalp and foul odour comming from your scalp. DHT makes you feel good but when you go too high on DHT you will get the sideffects with aggresion mentioned above, also too high DHT is not good for your prostate. My worry is that you add an extra compound to fix a problem that doesn't really exist. Try aromasin for your next run without proviron. Aromasin sides i have described come from long term heavy use since i was reversing some gyno the first 4-5 months, if you take it as needed you wont have any probs with it
dbolzLike i said i kinda struggle to convert any e2 at the minute due to long term aromasin usage, once i got this sussed i will be dropping the dbol in a heartbeat. Its not the dbol gains i am after i am just trying to balance things out a bit. Before you ask, i have tried dropping the AI in order to get some e2 signs but even a single 6.25mg dose of aromasin tanks my e2 back down. Dbol is kinda my last resort so waiting to baloon a bit and take it from there. Like i said treat aromasin with respect esp when running it longterm. Producing new aromataze can take aaaaages the longer you run it
booom!! theres the bombshell!! that is why i prefer prop as a kick.. all lean hard gains...
one more thing, yes, switching over to aromasin would be preferred but until you get it in, up the adex to .25 ed, that will go a long way to bring down your estro levels.
+1
Thanks, I'll try that.
and pleeeease dont run dbol 4 on 4 off...
dbolzEQ doesnt cause any bloat, if anything while taking test your bloat will be much less when taking EQ. Your bloat is due to the dbol you ignored it when it wasnt a problem and now you are as bloated as they get. Either up your AI or drop your dbol all together
Here is some food for thought for ya:
"Adex is not particularly effective for drugs that tend to be subject to peripheral aromatization, methandrostanolone in particular. often a full 2mg daily of dex will still not stop dbol bloat and cramping
arimidex is best at E1 suppression (tissue affinity, gonadal, adrenal, etc and because its a competitive inhibitor). it suppress e1 at even the lowest of doses, but takes rather high doses to see significant impact on peripheral aromatase (which if you have "issues" is generally where it is)."
These words are by a doc and where posted on another forum.
Great post with very good info. I wish that everyone else would make contributions like this and keep the crap out of this site. It's a +1 from me bro.
Eq can cause bloat depending on the dosage though ...but I agree with you on everything else...in this case it definitely was the dbol ...
Studies show that eq is better ran at a low dose on a long cycle rather than a high dose and short length
dbolzAdmittedly i have only run eq at a high dose (1.2g) for 2 weeks as a frontload so i cant really say how it bloats on high dosages. But at 600mg i never bloated from it and any bloat from other aas (even deca) was kept to a minimum. At some point i want to run 900-1.2g of eq as a base and add maybe some test but not sure yet the amount of test. If i am going to run it at a high dose i would still go for a long run. Short runs and eq doesn't really make sense. Will start donating blood starting this July so my winter bulk is probably going to be 900-1.2g Eq + test. Some say that even Primo in high enough dose can cause gyno so i guess everything is possible i wouldnt discount eq causing bloat at really high dosages. Good point there, will find out soon
You know what's fucked up some people bloat naturally then others ...I get bloated looking at a grain of salt but as far as eq goes I've ran eq at 400 to 600 mgs and never bloated i like to run test at low doses because im assuming with free extra test can cause bloat ..but in your case im going to try and find that thread about running eq low...when I say low I mean 200-600...
You must be a big monster doing all that gear
dbolzI am from those that bloat being an endomorph and all. But i live in almost a 0 salt diet these days whatever salt i get is from what sodium brown bread, rice, pasta, protein shakes have. I think getting used to the gear has a lot to do with bloating too. Running low eq is only worth it when stacking it with deca or using it as an appetite booster only. Say you run deca at 300mg then eq at 300mg you will get some good results. Otherwise i dont think its really worthwhile. I am no big monster nor will ever be i am "blessed" with 17cm wrists and used to be mega fat when young, hence i dont want to go really big in weight. Lost 50kg in weight at the age of 18 so lost around 20-30% of muscle and god knows how much bone tissue. You got to love genetics and youth stupidity
Lol i had the same life experience been as high as 52 percent bf when I was a teen...been as low as 7 in my younger 20s naturally I love eq to boost appetite just have to eat alot of good food lol...im going to send a friend request I think there's alot I can learn from you
Spot on brother.. thats it right there +3
dbolzThanks a lot mate and i got too say your diet posts and little secrets are just priceless. Wish i could give you a +100 at times
LOL... no problem bro you will be up to 50 karma soon bringing stuff like that to the table.. keep it coming bro this is what eroids is all about
Keep posting stuff like you have been and you will get there quick. :-). +1 from me as well
Good brother this is how we keep the community strong and people interested in giving good info
so, do YOU use aromasin then? and if so, at what dose? ive personally never ran it but have read it is a little stronger, and better at combating bloat.. im an adex guy, and it works pretty well for me, but i guess when i took dbol, i didnt really bloat as much as i thought i would... but then again, i was taking adex as well..
dbolzI use aromasin for over a year now both for trt and blasts. My trt dose is 6.25mg eod/e3d and my current blast dose is 12.5mg eod/e3d. Word of warning though when i started aromasin the first few months i needed much higher dosages than i need now. I was using up to 25mg ed with a heavy cycle and 6.25mg ed with trt dosages. When you use aromasin for way to long like myself you end up beeing unable to convert any e2 and that can be dangerous both for health and gains. Aromasin is by far the most effective AI but it needs to be treated with respect like most compounds out there.
Current stack
Test e 750mg/week
Eq 600mg/week
Dbol 40mg ed for 8 weeks then 4 weeks off then Anavar 100mg ed for the summer.
Aromasin 12.5mg eod/e3d
Also will be adding npp at 400mg at some point once the EQ fully kicks in. Already running eq for 7 weeks.
I never heard that. I always thought Adex was what's always recommended to stop romatization of Dbol.
It's not that strange to run orals 4 weeks on and off, is it? And of course I don't want to look like a balloon. I will however go and have my BP taken as soon as I get out of work. I didn't do it until now because I was feeling well in that respect but now I'm wondering.
All signs point to extreme estrogen build up. From what you describe as your symptoms my guess is you are 200+. Get a blood test ASAP.
Blood tests are expensive but I think you might be right. I guess checking for estradiol and prolactine will be enough, right?
maybe some really potent dbol, well known for bloating try cutting back and see how it goes.
Yeah, I knew that about Dbol but I'm running it only 4 weeks on, 4 off. I've been on and off already and I wasn't much better while I was off.
limejellyjamcomment deleted, user has at least 22 fake accounts
~BFG
Bro, if my EQ turns out to be Test or Deca I'm really going to be pissed off at my source. Did I mention I lost my libido too? I really hope all this water goes off after I'm done with the cycle.
dbolzYou cant blame the eq beeing deca yet, you lost your libido due to very high e2. If you didnt had high e2 you wouldnt bloat like a baloon. High e2 causes ed. Your EQ could well be legit but if you dont control your e2 like you should dont expect to ever see those lean gains EQ gives. Also EQ is the second cheapest raw material after testosterones there is absolutely no reason for someone to fake EQ. Even deca costs more as a raw material so think about it why would someone scam you with a more expensive product? Switch to aromasin like others suggested and watch your libido skyrocket. Also EQ once it peaks it enchances your libido, it only affects your libido during up until it peaks and thats in big dosages not at 600mg per week.