posted Mon, 12/12/2011 - 04:38
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O V E R T R A I N I N G
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I have to say I'm sick of people telling others they overtrain by looking at their workout agenda. Bottom line is you don't know how that person feels and/or heals so just keep your mouth shut, everyone always wants to worry about someone else. The only thing I will say is if your sore give your muscle a break for a day but WTF IS OVERTRAINING. Some people are more intense then you hence having longer and better workouts, deal with it. I look around forums and always see some nub shitmouth telling another bro "dude you are overtraining wow you have way too many workouts for that muscle group!" S T F U N U B. Different strokes for different folks.
Good day sir! :]
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thank you if I could give you a huge I would reach through the f...ing computer. this "certified" dude has a post about how over training is so easy to do. and even admits the reason he didn't get the results he wanted was cause you wasn't eatting right.
i said it's hard to do if your eatting and sleeping enough and he almost shit a brick because I was disproving his point.
i have been reading all these comments for several days and been trying to take it all in. i was 22 yrs old working a 3 on 1 off routine hitting 2 body parts each session and hittin the iron 3 1/2 hours a day. to younge to kow why the hell i wasnt growing in size or strength. I WAS OVERTRAINING i eat everything but the kitchen sink and couldnt gain a pound. and believe me i have never had a high metabolism. it was over training my body. i looked good but was not getting what i wanted, strength or size. i mean i would go in wanting to just put 5lb more on the bar and just couldnt. body was exhausted. in my 30's i was doing every other day for about an hour or more and got results. i think from experience i know you can over train and it have a negative affect on your goals. just my opinion.
I will annotate what I said and say SOME people can overtrain. Of course, with how important a role genetics play in lifting, some of us will recovery better than others. I will say that during those months that I was lifting so much, I had an absolutely stress free few months, took 2 months off of work, when I finally did go back to work I would go in for half days 3 times a week for another 5 weeks. I slept great, was going to bed before 10pm each night, didn't drink for 10 months and literally only focused on lifting. That obviously played a very huge role in why I was able to lift so much and so often. Now that I look back on my case, I can't even compare my experience with the average lifter's daily life.
tread-mI cannot Fing believe this conversation is still going.LMAO! Alright, to each his own, I have some important shit to do here so ya'll be cool. ; )
I just honestly do not believe that someone can overtrain in the traditional way most people think that one can overtrain. EX: thinking you are overtrained because you did 20 sets of arm work last week.
I know I am going to get raped for this but I have specifically tested myself to see how much work I could put in before I overtrained. Granted, I trained smart, VERY smart, but I wanted to pile on the work and see how my body reacted. I was unable to overtrain with TWO 1.5-2 hour lifting sessions a day using CNS intensive compound movements working up to heavy triples, doubles or singles, everyday. I was snatching, and squatting 5 days a week in a row. Saturdays and Sundays was one lifting session per day instead of two and I did pressing movements, cleans, and deadlifted one day a week. My afternoon workouts would be more structural BB type of work. I would do conditioning sled work after every workout. While I did feel kinda shitty for like 2 weeks I kept at it and about a month into lifting like this I got SUPER motivated and was literally making PR's every single workout. I did this for 6 months and made tremendous gains in strength. This was before I started using gear. I was only able to "overtrain" when I incorporated long, slow runs in the morning before eating. I put "overtrain" in quotations because I still felt motivated to lift, but my strength dropped considerably. I will say that once I backed off though, and cut my training sessions to 30 min to 1 hour twice a day I did gain A LOT of size. There is something to be said about really training yourself into the ground and lifting like your life depends on it, then backing off and doing something more moderate.
No you're not going to get "RAPED" haha your opinion is highly validated and I argue the same point to a degree. We are all different but yes we can take it too far and it isn't so much over training as it is over stimulating a muscle being repaired by the body. You can trade strength for size like you say and keep pushing as long as you don't hurt yourself but you do know you are hindering that muscle from complete reconstruction.
Personally I aim for size for my specific needs to get bigger so I shouldn't work out a muscle more then once a week so it optimally repairs itself completely.
AnonDawg, what you describe is considered over training, what do you think over stim does to a muscle? If you take it to the extreme you get necrosis of the cells ....
In a sense though because if Person #1 is making strength gains without allowing himself to repair completely is he really over training or over stimulating? And Person #2 is making no gains at all strength or size because he is working out biceps for 3 hours straight every other day.
I see person #2 over training and person #1 over stimulating
Not trying to argue at all I'm just wondering if you see any difference in the two. I had this argument with a powerlifter in my gym who basically represent's Person #1. He told me there is no such thing as over training at all just under recovering lol.
(Also for the record I don't do either I'm just really curious)
AnonIt is an argument about semantics and degrees on a continuum ...slide the scale anyway you want, it is what it is
I guess it's just a very debatable topic. I think person #1 and person #2 aren't going about their workouts smart at all and I don't condone them even if they are making strength gains in the least. I think what was said today by gothic and walla is the way people should go about it if you want to see strength and size gains at maximum levels. And that is working one muscle group out once a week and getting optimal nutrients and rest before working them out again. ( at least 5-7 days rested )
The main reason I overtrained when I was younger is the same reason a LOT of guys do::: You've been out of the gym for 2 days...you haven't hit your arms in 6 or 7 days, and you're starting to lose that "tight"..."pumped" feeling. Your arms are starting to look small (Hint--it's just a little water), and you're begining to freak that it's muscle your losing. But it's not.
Once you put that fear aside and train based on what works in the LONG term....not what's going to keep you with a constant pump....then THAT'S when you start to really add size.
In prison (12 years), I always thought the old grand-daddy guys were so huge because they worked out the hardest and had been at it for so many years. But I never saw them go to the gym or the weight pit on the yard except for maybe 2-3 days a week.
What happened was these guys were serving big time, and after a few years weren't as motivated to workout. But the irony is THAT is the exact thing that made them bigger---working out less, and resting more.
Ever notice how great your pumps are after a layoff??
just when i thought i knew you goth...prison, i dont think we can be friends any more???? i think i am devastated??/ oh wait a minute??? i know you... i remember those arms, those pecs and most of all... those glutes... hahahahaha you were the honeybun millionaire running CB$ right?
you are 100% right that is exactly why all them old vets were huge and stayed that way even in their late years. guarenteed to tear down the muscle if you only train it once a week but train it hard that once a week. tearing it down builds it up. pure genious, always keeping it simple so if they dont understand its because they dont want to.
Yeah you are completely right and thanks for sharing dude. It's the truth for sure everyone wants results right away but that's not how things work. With patience and hard work it will come in the long term. Quality info right here.
Well it looks like it worked for you. Getting a response I mean. Mate the bigger you become and the amount of weight that you move In a training session all dictate as to recovery rate inconjunction with supplementation. Basically if you are so called training each muscle group twice a week and you claim that you are not over training then my friend you are not training anywhere near hard enough. For you to have the assumption that other members out there that have been around as long if not longer than myself, that we don't know what we are talking about then perhaps you tell us all how great you are and will be in the future utilizing your current routine. It took myself well over 8 years to nail a training routine that is effective for myself. You also stated that you like arguing, well if you like arguing go down the gym and start one with someone down there. This is not the place for that.
wallabokkie to be honest someone like you I would listen to 100% you have exactly what I'm aiming for. It's just most people spew garbage and they don't know wtf they are talking about. Someone like you and gothic I totally respect because you've put in the hard work, long hours and achieved what I want. Just because I argue doesn't necessarily mean I'm trying to instigate any type of problem.
No problem mate. I get a bit emotional with this subject as I have had many arguments about it over the years. I have even taken guys aside that I have argued with and told them that if they give me 5 weeks of training with me doing what I do and no more or less and see how it goes. After the 5 weeks I haven't been able to get rid of them. But helping out others is what I am about. I never had any help back in my earlier days and I didn't like that. So I don't want anyone else to have to go through that.
See and that's why I would listen to you any day of the week. And by the way dude you do look incredible. Good stuff walla.
Cheers mate. I think the biggest downfall of forums is that you can't express the tone of the thread. It all comes down to the way the person reading it interprets it. I am however becoming more of a fan of this site as time goes on. I liked it in the beginning and now I love it. But that being said good luck with your training mate.
Thanks a lot walla!
Whoever said I was training each muscle group twice a week? I never said that nor do I do it?
Haha got ya. I never said that you were. You must have read it wrong
EDIT
AnonOvertraining is a physical, behavioral, and emotional condition that occurs when the volume and intensity of an individual's exercise exceeds their recovery capacity. They cease making progress, and can even begin to lose strength and fitness. Overtraining is a common problem in weight training, but it can also be experienced by runners and other athletes.
Thank you wikipedia
Give them a vote if you find it helpful.PermalinkThanks for the definition. But what I'm saying is everyone has different limits as to which they START OVERTRAINING. So who is one online queer to tell another HE IS OVERTRAINING. When in fact they have different physical barriers in which they push through and/or nutrients to suffice that physical exertion.
It's not that I don't believe in it, it's that there are deeper issues causing it period.
I can look at someone's workout routine, and tell if it is providing maximum stimulation, rest/recovery. It was my job for decades. I suppose people can say whatever they want to about how everybody is different, but you still have to abide by the laws of physiology.
If you post your workout routine here on eroids, and you're hitting muscle groups twice per week (for example), then you ARE overtraining, and you can holler all you want about how you're different and it works for you. At your age, almost anything is going to work to a degree. But you'll level off, if you haven't already, and hopefully you won't be beating your head against the wall in 10 years from now, wondering why you can't get any bigger.
"Holler" really? are you sure your not from the south? lol
AnonBahhh even us northern grrfls know what holler is...
I BET YOU DO LMMFAO..........O GOTH!!! O GOTH!!! O POPEBOY.. I MEAN GOTH!!!
sorry goth I just couldnt let that one go lol
So THAT'S what she's been saying during sex.
I thought she was saying "OH JOY"
lol at least she wasnt saying stfuandliftbtch ha ha
Well considering I've gained 50 pounds naturally in a span of about 3-4 years WITHOUT INJURY, I must be doing something right. I mean if that's not getting bigger to you then quite frankly I don't know what is gothic.
When I was 24, I could get bigger just by looking at weights. I have no idea how much you're training, but you've decided you need to use steroids for a reason, so I assume you're not happy with your gains.
Like I said, if you're overtraining, your gains are going to come to a halt. Just a matter of time, and when they do, it's going to be that much harder to get any benefit from steroids. Been doin this for a while. I had 2 powerlifting titles under my belt YEARS before you were even born.
Your assumption is invalid bro I'm sorry. I'm using them to gain 30-40++ extra pounds in the next year for athletic scholarship as I've already stated previously in another thread. I do like arguing with you because you bring valid points however your assumptions are horrible. Congratulations on your powerlifting titles by the way.
You're not going to gain 40 pounds of beef in a year at this point. I'm not trying to dog you, I'm telling you that between your lifting experience, overtraining (if you are overtraining), and your inability to know your body like the alphabet (yet), it's going to be a tough climb, unless you plan on adding a lot of fat and water retention.
Mark my words.
Remember--you were on this forum a week ago asking where to pin, how to pin, and where to get needles/syringes. You didn't become an expert in gear in the past 10 days. It takes YEARS to learn how your body reacts to diet, training, gear, rest, and environmental stressors.
But hey, knock yourself out, and have a great time.
Oh by all means I'm no expert with this gear stuff not even close. If you have any tips on gear and all that you can school me any time you want NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT GOTHIC!
...but diet and workout has always been a big part of me because of family & sports, plus the fact I never liked unclean fatty foods and am an avid cook. But even today I don't call myself an expert quite yet although I do consider myself experienced for my age in diet and training. I have a long way to go to call myself expert but I will get there.
It's all about knowing yourself...harder than it sounds.
Shoot for 20-25 pounds of LEAN muscle this year. You're looking at 2 good cycles.
25 pounds of muscle is a LOT of beef. Go to the grocery store and look at a 3 pound steak.. That's a lot of muscle. Keeping that muscle is also going to a challenge.
Keep reading...and keep listening, and make intelligent moves in the gym based on strategy...not passion. Don't strike the muscle until it's FULLY recuperated, and you'll get there.
I don't even have a routine, because every workout is a game-time decision. I hit it when the time is exactly right. It's not easy...sometimes I can't resist, and wanna go blow my arms up..lol
Yep you are definitely correct on that, I have a couple 2-3 pound tri tips in my fridge right now and IT IS a lot of muscle. I'll keep listening,reading and making good moves in and outside the gym. I just want to say thanks gothic for your words. I might of come off argumentative but it was definitely for positive reason.
Thanks again gothic.
LOL...You're a rookie for at least another few weeks...so we have to give you some shit.
Once you're here for a while, you'll be in the club, and one of our own...LOL
Hahaha! Alright alright.
AnonBasic physiology can't really be argued with...
AnonWhen you put yourself in a public forum, it is an implicit invitation, for the public to post their opinions...seems to me if one doesn't want commentary then one should not "ask" for it.... just curious as to why a person is now "queer" if they offer commentary?
Your right they did put themselves out there for criticism and public opinion. Its just that every person that has some shit to say about others work out routines never post their own or has any experience to make the comment in the first place. Making them a queer lol.
You might try just ignoring the advice you don't want to hear and listen to the advice that you do want to hear...the advice that confirms to yourself that you're right.
It works great for alcoholics, the emotionally disturbed, and other people in denial.
But calling people names is only going to make things messy.
I get advice from new guys in their early 20s all the time....advice about gear, advice about marriage, advice about money, advice about life....all the things that I already know a 20 year old kid doesn't know shit about. But I don't call them names---I just ignore them. It's so much quicker and less stressful.
You're wasting you're time 7gothic. Millions of people have gone down the path this kids going - I'm sure each of those thought they were right too. He isn't listening or is just plain stupid (not intended as an insult, he's just coming across that way). I guess he'll find out the hard way.
The thing with you is you believe if someone is younger, that automatically means they are inexperienced or don't know shit about a topic you're interested in or experienced in yourself.
And really who is in denial? You said you don't take advice from younger people well I don't take advice from the general consensus period does that make me in denial? Wrong. It means I don't listen to most because the truth once again is people are retarded. Just as you think younger people are on marriage,gear,etc.
Were on the same page but reading different books.
That's not true...If I have a question about a video game or how to leach off of a girl and not have to work, I ALWAYS seek the advice of a youngster.
There's your sarcasm, which is your defense mechanism but I totally understand why you're using it.
That's true about the girl part---but not about PC games. I'm having trouble with Skyrim already.
Intolerance and bad temper....a sign of overtraining perhaps? LOL
However, if a six time Mr. O believes in overtraining its good enough for me too. Unless of course you know more about training than Dorian?