E2 control - AI dosage on cycle
Stats 6'1" 225lbs 17ish%bf ?
I am starting my first cycle soon - test E only 300-400mg/ wk. I originally planned .25 arimidex E3D but I'm not certain about that .
I have some questions about using AI on cycle and during PCT. The most common suggestion I have read is dosing .25mg either EOD, E3D, or just with pinning. I have also read that AI should be used only to control symptoms as they show up but this seems like a bad idea and a good way to get yourself in trouble as problems have likely already started once the symptoms show.
I am a powerlifter so my bf is higher than most bodybuilders. I understand that this will increase the risk of estro sides while on cycle so I am looking to get a little advice for dosage on cycle as well as PCT.
My pre cycle bloods show my E2 in the lower end of normal 15 on 8-42 scale.
I want to be sure to maintain proper E2 levels without crashing. Any suggestions for dosing? What dose? How often? Arimidex vs Aromasin? When should I start (immediately, week 2, 3)?
Any help is appreciated
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You dont know how is your body will react bro . Everyone give you his opinion but the only one give you the right answer is rusty . Keep the AI in hand and use it when need it . Maybe you are one of those lucky people have no problem with E2 . Maybe you react bad . But you and the others can't decid for you until you start your cycle . And your dosage not that high . Even 300 mg of test per week I feel it not good enough for first cycle go with 400 and see how you will react blood work when you feel something wrong in your libido . Cold feet , uncomfortable night sleeping , sweating, and better do blood test after 4 weeks when the test will get in .
Thanks brother. Rusty always seems to have the good, simple, no bullshit answers. I will run the 400mg without the AI and see where the blood tests come out week 4. I am looking forward to this cycle. Thanks for your help.
Team Aromasin all the way!
I've ran it during PCT before 6 or 3 ED and my oestrogen crashed and I felt even shittier than any previous PCT. The fun of trial and error.
before 6 or 3? are you talking about the week or the dosage or the time of day?
Ahhhh yes the trial and error with estrogen.... puffy burning nipples, limp dick, or crying like a moody little bitch, can't wait to experience those lol. Here's hoping I get it right on the first try.
Actually, I wouldn't really worry about "crashing" your E2 levels with an aromatase inhibitor like Exemestane; I've never been able to push my E2 levels very low, irrespective how much I used. As soon as I approach 1.000 milligrams of Testosterone (or other hormones that aromatize in a similar manner), I need at least 25 milligrams of Exemestane and with that I'm still quite a bit over the lab's E2 reference levels. There are actually studies on Exemestane use in men: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2003-031279. Apparently, there is no need to use more than 25 milligrams per day in order to achieve a maximal estradiol suppression of 62 ± 14%; thus, even in men who don't use any (other) hormones, 25 milligrams per day didn't cause any "crash".
Furthermore: I'd always use Exemestane (Aromasin); it is in every way superior to Anastrozole (Arimidex): It doesn't cause any problems with your blood lipid levels, it doesn't impair your IGF-1 levels and it doesn't cause any E2 rebound upon cessation as it irreversibly binds to aromatase enzymes. And (!) due to its steroidal nature, it binds to SHBG and thus increases your (free) Testosterone levels.
Thanks brujah, so I don't need to worry about a crash with aromasin? I appreciate the info.
You can crash your e2 or at least get it low enough to feel like it's crashed. Don't over dose. You will feel like shit! Trust me I've done it on both Aromasin and Arimadex..
Makwa did a post about this - https://www.eroids.com/forum/steroids-qa/steroid-cycles/first-cycle-when...
Pick one of the options. Both are equally valid and have worked for me. If you want to err on the side of caution go with option 2.
Perfect. Thanks Dacky, just what I was looking for.
RustyhookerI'd not add an ai til you need it. Or lose out on gains til week 5 blood test.
You've got a whole book of forums going and they're showing that you dont research. Post lead in questions to get spoonfed.
Go research signs of high estro. Its something you must know on your own. And how it effects you personally
Trust me Rusty, I've spent hours and hours reading the forums and stickies doing my own research. I post questions because the info on here is full of contradictions and broscience. I'm not trying to get spoonfed, I'm looking for clarification.
Just as an example, already on this post in just a few replies, I have contradicting information. The majority say start with a low dose as a precaution but here you tell me not to use anything until week 5. Do you see the reason for my confusion?
I understand how the drugs work, I understand the symptoms of both high and low estro, I just wanted a little help with dosage.
There's nothing wrong with asking questions to be safe, right? Or is that not what the forums are for?
RustyhookerNot really broscience as I'm reading replies. Its individual characteristics. I may not need ai til week 5....other guys using letro from day 1.
Hell, last 3 cycles I needed no ai whatsoever and they were medium sized complex cycles. So there's no real rock hard proof on when someone else can really tell you how to dose. I'd start low as I've posted a thousand times...WHEN....estro shows. Crash your estro and forget mass growth.
I'm kind of seeing the differences here - not everyone responds to testosterone the same way so E2 control is different for everyone. That explains all of the differences in info and my confusion. I've heard that the old school, golden age lifters didn't use any AI's and used pretty moderate doses of test. I've even heard that there was no PCT back then, they just tapered off the test in the off season. I am all for not using drugs if you don't need them so I will keep it conservative. I guess this will be a learning experience. Thanks Rusty. I promise I will stop spamming the forum with questions
RustyhookerBeing nervous is normal. It took me an hour to get my first jab. Back then the whole media was focused on roid rage. All that hype had me wondering when I was gonna go aggro. Ran 300mg a week and felt great.
Old school dudes ran small cycles because they blasted 2hours a day in the gym and were fully past their max. The guys I came up with were already competing BEFORE roids was an option. Diets were fully on point. Todays kids are all about the magic instant pill.
And I fully can't grasp these 6ft 175 bean poles using gear. I crap bigger than that.
Definitely a little nervous but want to do my best to do it right. I've got a lot of respect for the old school guys and their dedication. I like watch the old footage of Gold's Venice of the guys killing it with minimal equipment, just good old school compound lifts and balls out training.
I totally see your point about guys thinking gear is a magic solution that will make up for their shitty diet and weak training habits. I'm just hoping to step up my training and push my lifting to the next level. I tend to burn the candle at both ends pushing 50+ hrs in a hard, physical job and still get my 5 days a week in at the gym. I'm hoping the gear helps with training volume and recovery and to be honest I wouldn't mind putting on a little size, maybe even into the next weight class.
I am going to take your advice and skip the AI until after I have bloodwork. My natural E2 levels are pretty low so I'm guessing I don't have a problem with aromatization. I will get it done early (week 4) and keep an eye out for early symptoms. Just heard the new Napsgear podcast and they interviewed the guy from Under Construction and he was saying that he ran over a gram or two of test and other compounds and rarely needs AI, even went the first four years without it.
Thanks again for your help Rusty. I appreciate it.
With test e I would wait a week to start ai. dosage will very with each person. Arimadex @ .25 e3d is a good starting point at 400mg test e per week. Get blood work 5 to 6 weeks in and adjust as needed..
Arimadex is fine. It's cheap and works well. I prefer Aromasin myself. I feel I have better control of my e2.
Thanks for the info. What dose do you use for the aromasin?
As a starting point 6.25mg to 12.5mg per day while on cycle.